Can you spot where the "round points" end and the "Sharpee'd points" begin?

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What was the final ending?

I think the seller should give a full refund and the two split shipping or simply lower the price down to the $$$ amount the tainted cue is worth if both agree on a price.

My personal thought is that the buyer didnt paint the points and that the seller didnt paint the points. However I think the seller thinks the buyer might have or did paint them or pulled a switch on him. He should be upset at the fact that he has a cue he bought that is not what it appears.
That I can understand but in the end he should know that he has to take the loss and then find out what happened.

I also read this email from Ryan
This is what Evan said in an email to buyer. Either it appears that
he hasnt seen the cue we are getting pics of or
it was done by him or
done before he got it and he was asked to keep it that way.

I really dont think that he would say that he just missed this if it was a cue he refinsihed.

Evan Clarke
to me

show details 12:14 PM (8 hours ago)


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Sometimes the spliced points tear out or disappear a little, it?s a foible of the wood especially when cues have been refinished. Everybody who has ever made spliced cues has had to do this on occasion. The things to be concerned with about a cue are: how does it hit..the end!!..Evan
 
Iowa Player Sorry for the nasty comments I'm not that way your comments and attitude made me that way!!I love the way young punks threaten to fight people they don't know! I think you are probally a good person just got mad and out of line but be carefull no matter how bad you are theres always a badder one out there!Sometimes a little guy with martial arts skills you never know as you said send it back and eat the shipping WHATS THE PROBLEM lets move on! Hope you luck Ron
 
shinigami said:
This forum has never-ending drama. I love it!
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dont worry about it going away, either, they are on here grinding about a old cue worth a few hundred dollars and pocket change b/c the points are different. So since that can hold thier atttention imagine when something meaningful comes up. WTF am I doing here???:eek:
 
Inking points and other parts of cues is an OLD time cue builder and finishers dirty secret. It's not a new and it's not at all un-common , most just won't admit to ever doing it.

I guess the question that really matters is who did it here and who knew about it and when. Sounds like Evan did it himself in this case and is not shy about it either.

Funny thing about the whole thing to me is builders who have done it are usually embarassed about it if ever had the chance (i.e during a refinish) they correct it if at all possible before anyone can find out.

First time I've heard of it happening after the fact. That's pretty damned slimy IMO but then again I was never a fan of Schon or thier 'quality' and have always wondered how they gained the appeal that they currently have.

Anywho , if it's common (according to the company) for schons to have inked points then I guess you get what you get.
 
Fatboy said:
dont worry about it going away, either, they are on here grinding about a old cue worth a few hundred dollars and pocket change b/c the points are different. So since that can hold thier atttention imagine when something meaningful comes up. WTF am I doing here???:eek:
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Well evidently you have to much f$ckn money sir......................:D
 
RRfireblade said:
Inking points and other parts of cues is an OLD time cue builder and finishers dirty secret. It's not a new and it's not at all un-common , most just won't admit to ever doing it.

I guess the question that really matters is who did it here and who knew about it and when. Sounds like Evan did it himself in this case and is not shy about it either.

Funny thing about the whole thing to me is builders who have done it are usually embarassed about it if ever had the chance (i.e during a refinish) they correct it if at all possible before anyone can find out.

First time I've heard of it happening after the fact. That's pretty damned slimy IMO but then again I was never a fan of Schon or thier 'quality' and have always wondered how they gained the appeal that they currently have.

Anywho , if it's common (according to the company) for schons to have inked points then I guess you get what you get.
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The point you and a few other people seem to be missing is that Evan is NOT talking about this cue. He thinks he is, but in his mind the cue he is talking about is a full splice cue. Read Evan's email again:

Evan Clarke
to me

show details 12:14 PM (8 hours ago)

Reply

Sometimes the spliced points tear out or disappear a little, it?s a foible of the wood especially when cues have been refinished. Everybody who has ever made spliced cues has had to do this on occasion. The things to be concerned with about a cue are: how does it hit..the end!!..Evan


Evan thinks that he is talking about a full splice cue that has been touched up. The cue in question here is clearly a CNC round point cue that someone used a marker on to draw in sharp points to make it only look like a full splice cue.

As soon as Evan sees this cue in person, or as soon as he sees the good quality close up pictures of the points, he is going to be back pedaling at 100 mph. Evan still thinks that he is talking about a full splice cue!
 
I sent another message and more pics to Evan, here's his response:


show details 12:11 AM (22 hours ago) [8.jpg]


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Hi Evan,

What I'm trying to point out here is the points are originally round and was doctored to appear sharp or spliced. I filed a dispute against the seller and I'm asking for my money back. I paid $$$ for the cue expecting that it has sharp/spliced points. Please look closer on the pic attached.

-Ryan


Evan Clarke
to me

show details 8:13 AM (14 hours ago)


Reply


This is a used cue, and a fairly old one. I am not involved in this and will not be, sorry?EC
 
p1noy said:
I sent another message and more pics to Evan, here's his response:


show details 12:11 AM (22 hours ago) [8.jpg]


Reply


Hi Evan,

What I'm trying to point out here is the points are originally round and was doctored to appear sharp or spliced. I filed a dispute against the seller and I'm asking for my money back. I paid $$$ for the cue expecting that it has sharp/spliced points. Please look closer on the pic attached.

-Ryan


Evan Clarke
to me

show details 8:13 AM (14 hours ago)


Reply


This is a used cue, and a fairly old one. I am not involved in this and will not be, sorry?EC
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He did just as I said. As soon as he realized that this was not a full spliced cue like he thought, and was actually a rounded point cnc cue, he back pedaled and wanted nothing to do with it.

The only thing he was vouching for before was that touch ups are often done on full splice cues...nothing to do with cues with cnc points.
 
After reading all this crap, I have come to 2 conclusions:
1.Not going to ever consider a Schon again-no matter how good the deal may seem. Seems really shady that he is the one doing the refinishing, and the cue is the way it is. Seems very dishonest IMHO.
2.Not going to ever buy from Iowa-player.

No excuse for any of this shit going on. P1noy, good luck to you and I hope this gets resolved soon and everything is ok.
 
When did "sharpie" become a verb? I bet the makers of Sharpie brand markers are loving it. Anyway I think that the Sharpie people should work with the cue making people to come up with Sharpie markers that blend perfectly and don't bleed, :-) That was they can sharpie with sharpies all day.

I wonder if sublimation would work? Sublimation is where the image becomes part of the substrate by turning the ink into gas. Thus the cue could be refinished and the image would not wear off when surface sanded. Then we could open up a whole new can of worms as to whether the points are subbied points or not. :-)

Pretty soon cues will need to come with pictures of the building process and x-ray images to determine that it was built in accordance with the seller's claims and the buyer's expectations.

And yes, "fudging" with fillers, dyes, sharpies, and other techniques are part of woodworking tradition. Also, unfortunately, the art of doctoring/faking is also part of woodworking tradition.

I personally think that this sort of information only serves to peel away the the hype and help people discover the cues with real value. There is way to much hype about "old" cues and how "well crafted" they were. And I loved - LOVED, was in love with, slept with, babied, and cried over, my first Schon cues. I loved them without knowing anything about Bob Runde or how he built cues. I loved them because they hit great and felt great and made me proud to own one.

I personally don't see anything wrong with making sharpie points AS LONG AS you don't try and tell people that they are spliced. I also don't see anything wrong with touching up problem areas if it works and doesn't compromise the cue. There are makers who don't and won't do this and others who do. Who is on what list might surprise people. I don't know who is on what list so don't ask.

What I do think is that someone beyond Schon did this to these points. I highly doubt that Schon would let an obvious and easy to see hack job like this out the door. I also think that it's "possible" that the cue went to Schon, got refinished without sanding all the way to the wood, and sent back without really looking at it closely, AND if they did they probably didn't feel obligated to inform the customer of the paint job on the points.

I would NOT accuse Schon of this UNLESS someone else can corrobarate with a similar example. If this is something that Schon does/did then there ought to be other examples out there. So before we drag Evan's name through the mud let's give him and Schon the benefit of the doubt.

Although I would love to hear his comments on what he thinks about the points (probably not forthcoming).

And with that I have nothing more to add to this thread. Hope it gets resolved peacefully.
 
the value of "unobtainium"

John,

Once something is made of unobtainium, something that can no longer be had, then it is far more valuable than something that is still available today.

The simple facts are that the old cue makers didn't have nearly the quality of adhesives and finishes that are available today and not all of them were master woodworkers.

I was around another sport long enough to see generations of components used. The components that were crap when they first came out were perfect once they were no longer available. Scarcity increases quality at least tenfold.

Hu




JB Cases said:
When did "sharpie" become a verb? I bet the makers of Sharpie brand markers are loving it. Anyway I think that the Sharpie people should work with the cue making people to come up with Sharpie markers that blend perfectly and don't bleed, :-) That was they can sharpie with sharpies all day.

I wonder if sublimation would work? Sublimation is where the image becomes part of the substrate by turning the ink into gas. Thus the cue could be refinished and the image would not wear off when surface sanded. Then we could open up a whole new can of worms as to whether the points are subbied points or not. :-)

Pretty soon cues will need to come with pictures of the building process and x-ray images to determine that it was built in accordance with the seller's claims and the buyer's expectations.

And yes, "fudging" with fillers, dyes, sharpies, and other techniques are part of woodworking tradition. Also, unfortunately, the art of doctoring/faking is also part of woodworking tradition.

I personally think that this sort of information only serves to peel away the the hype and help people discover the cues with real value. There is way to much hype about "old" cues and how "well crafted" they were. And I loved - LOVED, was in love with, slept with, babied, and cried over, my first Schon cues. I loved them without knowing anything about Bob Runde or how he built cues. I loved them because they hit great and felt great and made me proud to own one.

I personally don't see anything wrong with making sharpie points AS LONG AS you don't try and tell people that they are spliced. I also don't see anything wrong with touching up problem areas if it works and doesn't compromise the cue. There are makers who don't and won't do this and others who do. Who is on what list might surprise people. I don't know who is on what list so don't ask.

What I do think is that someone beyond Schon did this to these points. I highly doubt that Schon would let an obvious and easy to see hack job like this out the door. I also think that it's "possible" that the cue went to Schon, got refinished without sanding all the way to the wood, and sent back without really looking at it closely, AND if they did they probably didn't feel obligated to inform the customer of the paint job on the points.

I would NOT accuse Schon of this UNLESS someone else can corrobarate with a similar example. If this is something that Schon does/did then there ought to be other examples out there. So before we drag Evan's name through the mud let's give him and Schon the benefit of the doubt.

Although I would love to hear his comments on what he thinks about the points (probably not forthcoming).

And with that I have nothing more to add to this thread. Hope it gets resolved peacefully.
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Poolplaya9 said:
The point you and a few other people seem to be missing is that Evan is NOT talking about this cue.
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Actually the point 'your' missing ;) is this cue was refinished by Evan , the points were touched up under the finish and therefore done during the refinish and sent out.
 
a faint possibility

RRfireblade said:
Actually the point 'your' missing ;) is this cue was refinished by Evan , the points were touched up under the finish and therefore done during the refinish and sent out.
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There is a faint possibility that Evan didn't sand the old sharpie points away before refinishing but it seems very likely that you are correct. The sharpie bled into the wood so the wood was exposed when it was applied.

Hu
 
RRfireblade said:
Actually the point 'your' missing ;) is this cue was refinished by Evan , the points were touched up under the finish and therefore done during the refinish and sent out.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure that this is THE cue that he refinished. In small not so great pictures this cue looks like hundreds of others out there. I think the cue that Evan remembers refinishing was a true full splice cue, which would clearly mean that it was not this cue.

If it can be determined that it was in fact this cue for sure, then Evan needs to answer whether the cue was originally built at the Schon factory in this way with the "fake" points, or whether the Schon factory created the "fake" points at the time that it was refinished, or if somebody completely unrelated to the Schon factory created the "fake" points.

I personally think Evan back pedaled when he realized this isn't even the cue that he refinished, or at least not the one he was thinking of. In any case, he needs to answer the question of who created the "fake" points, and when.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
I personally think Evan back pedaled when he realized this isn't even the cue that he refinished, or at least not the one he was thinking of. In any case, he needs to answer the question of who created the "fake" points, and when.
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I think Evan did the right thing by getting out of this conflict. This is an old, used cue, and reflects not one bit on the cues he's letting out the door these days. He's got better things to do than deal with this over a 20 year old "r2", and he has nothing to answer for in my book.

-s
 
steev said:
I think Evan did the right thing by getting out of this conflict. This is an old, used cue, and reflects not one bit on the cues he's letting out the door these days. He's got better things to do than deal with this over a 20 year old "r2", and he has nothing to answer for in my book.

-s
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It is simply a matter of him authenticating his work. Cuemakers do it every day all over the US. He would be the first cuemaker that I have ever heard of that refuses to authenticate whether or not a cue is his work, if that proves to be the case.
 
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