Can't Improve. Should I quit?

Don't give up. In the last ten years I have not gotten any better at either drinking or sex but I am not about to give them up! Same with pool and golf.

Come to think about it my pool has improved. I finally learned how to overcome trying to do things right and now concentrate on making shots.
 
Where are you based?

I am doing a coaching tour starting next month and will be able to help you.

Lee

Here ya go. If not Lee, somebody else just as qualified to analyze your game. There's probably several issues going on simultaneously and you're probably making them worse by not knowing what they are or how to correct them, despite continuing to play. In other words, you need to go into analysis, my friend.
:D
 
If your not enjoying playing, it makes it tough.
It sounds like you practice and want to play.
Don't over think it just play, and most of all have fun.
 
Advise all but the most very talented to just sit back and enjoy the game. Don't quit, but find a few friends who you can hammer without trying and be a legend in your own lunchtime.
Far less stressful that trying to achieve something you cannot possibly be.


This is the best advice, so far.
You don't need lessons. You don't need to do drills until your tip falls off.
What you do need to do is play. Play and enjoy the game, and the times you spend with your friends. Play, and not worry about what your next shot's going to be. Just make the one in front of you. Surprisingly, in a year or so, you'll look back and find that you're a much better player than when we had this little pep talk.
Good luck, Tramp. :)
 
Maybe you were just not ready for all that stuff you read. You need to play more, establish consistent solid stroke mechanics and develop an innate understanding of how the balls behave. Revisit your books later and then it will all make more sense when you are actually able to execute the shot just like the way it was diagrammed.
 
I do wear glasses. Have noticed that sometimes the top of my frames will impede my vision of the object ball when sighting. But really, I don't think it's a major issue. I see plenty of guys shooting pretty awesomely with glasses.

Get a pair of nice billiard eyeglasses, it's the best investment i ever made in my pool game after being a fool looking at the frame of my regular glasses for 15yrs.
 
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.
School and math have nothing to do with it.You can read books till your blue in the face
and watch video after video but the key to playing good pool is a proper stance and not to move during your shot.Everybody strokes different so do whats comfortable for
you and master it.
A lot of guys try and emulate another player which can be draining and waste of
time,which could be spent on a creating a style of your own.
Look at a pro player like Mike Davis,who to most people has a horrible stroke
with a ton of flaws.The key is consistency!! Mikes flawed stroke to the naked eye
is very consistent and that's the key.
Find yourself on the table and do whats natural to you and perfect it, but remember
the stance is a mandatory foundation that has to be there to build on.Goodluck
 
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I think pool is a passion. Once it's in your blood it's there to stay. With some people it's model car building, or writing, piano, acting, and so on. Then theres always the chance that you became pretty good at it, but it was never really a part of you. I've had periods of months at a time where I just couldn't hit it into the ocean even if I was shooting in a boat and no matter what I did I showed no signs of improvement. Not really a slump, maybe apathy, lethergy, who knows. The one thing I can say though is that I may have reached a new high in frustration or drank a lot of beer, but I never didn't enjoy myself. If you're not having any fun, if you're not enjoying this anymore (keep in mind that you don't have to win to have fun), if it's just not part of you, then maybe it's time to quit, at least for a while, later it may find a better slot in your life, or maybe it'll be something else, maybe darts or bowling, karaoke, who knows. If you don't like it anymore then let it go, if you still have a passion for it then be patient, it'll come
 
Wow, did not expect to get so much feedback so quickly. I don't feel so alone now. :p

To answer briefly some things that were brought up.

I am 44. My optometrist did mention biofocals might be necessary down the road.

Yeah, back when I used to play frequently I could run 4,5,6 balls. Funny thing though was I knew nothing about "tangent lines" or "Set-Pause-Finish" or other "esoterica" back then; I just played by instinct.

Someone mentioned playing in tourneys and gambling helped his game the most. I like the idea of tourneys. Maybe I should try. Don't gamble though. I couldn't afford to lose. I'm poor.

I do wear glasses. Have noticed that sometimes the top of my frames will impede my vision of the object ball when sighting. But really, I don't think it's a major issue. I see plenty of guys shooting pretty awesomely with glasses.

I'm based in San Francisco. I know there's a number of famous teachers here, like Bob Jewett. I opted for lessons with my local house pro, who's also well-known and a nice guy.

Lee, are you coming to the West Coast?

Honestly, though, I was thinking more like a group clinic or weekend thing might benefit me more. That way there's an opportunity to converse and practice with my fellow classmates. (It's so boring to practice alone!) Right now, I don't have any opportunity to talk shop with people. The good players don't want to be bothered and everyone else doesn't seem interested in Tangent Lines or why low-left would've been better on a certain shot.

Advice from a fellow struggling beginner....

As others have said, I expect you aren't hitting where you think you are. Simple, huh?

I wear bifocals. I talked with my eye doc, and she wrote a script for me for pool, with the bifocal shifted higher in the lens. I also picked frames that would sit higher on my nose, and would be big enough that I can't easily look over the frame.

That alone will not cure everything, but it will be one less thing for you to worry about, and if you are like me, you will not be squinting so much. Doing that over a period of hours playing has got to add stress in one form or another.

And from the "heal thyself" category, I think you should give Geno a call. From everything I've read (not just from him) his phone lesson will help you align yourself better. I say that with a chuckle, cuz here I am suggesting it, yet haven't made the time to do so myself. I do plan on it, but I'm very busy and very good at procrastinating.

Don't give up. Find some shots that you can groove, and do those. Then add difficulty, a little at a time. When it gets frustrating, go back to the ones you can groove. You need to be able to have that sensation some, to keep you from trying to fix everything, all at once.

If you can see an instructor, go for it!

Good luck.
 
Don't give up. In the last ten years I have not gotten any better at either drinking or sex but I am not about to give them up! Same with pool and golf.


hahaha! :D This might be the most reassuring thing I've read.
 
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I was going to say take two weeks off before you quit...but someone already beat me to that....

So...I will say this...If you read between the lines of what you said and what has been posted...you will see the secret....develop your stroke from what comes natural to your body...you can't force a text book picture perfect stroke...it won't be natural and will fail under pressure...develop consistent fundamentals..but make them fit your body make up (and age)....keep them simple and repeatable so that under pressure (and whenever for that matter) all you really have to do is play pool and have fun....let (whatever stroke developed) happen naturally.
 
If you haven't already, read all you can about the concepts of "squirt" and "swerve." IMO unintentional or misjudged squirt and swerve are the only reasons why pool ball are missed by persons of average hand - eye coordination. Dealing with those 2 physical forces is what pool's all about.
 
Glasses

I have been wearing glasses for about 15 years. I tried playing with them and they put a crick in my neck. So I took them off.

I need glasses to tell if the balls are racked tightly and if I look at a long shot on a 9 footer, the numbers look slightly doubled. But shooting without glasses doesn't affect my game much.

Think of the shot where you line up and turn your head and then make the ball! It is in your set up on the shot. Fundamentals

Where you mentioned that you tried a shot 100 times and still couldn't get it correct makes me think that you are not striking the shot and following through. Another signal of poking at the shot is that you will not hit where you are aiming most of the time and your shot will veer offline to the pocket.
 
I can help you..............

I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.

When a player quits playing for awhile they don't realize how much that the natural ability to aim falls off. This is one of the biggest parts of so called getting in stroke. It's getting the eyes in the most correct position again to envision the shot correctly.

When you start playing again it can almost feel helpless.

What i teach, called perfect Aim works for everyone and it can be taught to everyone.

It will show you where the natural position is to have the eyes in the most dominant position so you see the shot correctly.

When your by a table Monday or Tuesday give me a call and I will run you through my phone lesson. No charge. i just want to help you.

You will see with your own eyes that this is the biggest part of your problem.

Everyone has this problem to a certain extent. They miss shots because the eyes are not in the most dominant position.

Getting the eyes in the correct position is everything.

715-563-8712 Looking forward to your call.............
 
Are you sure you were as good as you remember being? :p

Just messing with you. I understand your frustration but just keep with it, Sometimes we go through periods of working hard and seeing no improvement and then suddenly your game will jump up by magnitudes.

If I could give you one simple thing to try, that would be to make sure you aren't being lazy with your vision. Don't just look at the object ball for example, but focus specifically on the contact point on the OB. It's amazing how often your mind will send the cue ball exactly where you are looking if you are looking exactly.

Best of luck!!
 
I agree with Geno...give him a call

When a player quits playing for awhile they don't realize how much that the natural ability to aim falls off. This is one of the biggest parts of so called getting in stroke. It's getting the eyes in the most correct position again to envision the shot correctly.

When you start playing again it can almost feel helpless.

What i teach, called perfect Aim works for everyone and it can be taught to everyone.

It will show you where the natural position is to have the eyes in the most dominant position so you see the shot correctly.

When your by a table Monday or Tuesday give me a call and I will run you through my phone lesson. No charge. i just want to help you.

You will see with your own eyes that this is the biggest part of your problem.

Everyone has this problem to a certain extent. They miss shots because the eyes are not in the most dominant position.

Getting the eyes in the correct position is everything.

715-563-8712 Looking forward to your call.............

I agree with Geno...give him a call and give yourself a "second chance".

'The Game is your Teacher'
 
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.

Well that's a good question , sometimes it's better to have no ability than to have ability and never play to it , it's almost like a curse

Practice is good , drills and lessons can help depending on age and learning curb I know many of player who have done both and never really improved , if that's all everyone needed there would be a 100 Eferans out there , at the end of the day everyone has a cap limit

The art of taking your practice ability to competition lies in a few areas , a sound repeatable routine , fundamentals and your ability to stay focused on one shot at a time
AKA staying in the moment also as Clint would say a man needs to know his limitations
The ability to know when not to go to far into a run or go for the big shot can't be overstated this ability in itself can bring a better winning pct regardless of skill level
I have seen many good league players who are masters at this they have very high winning pct even though they can't run a rack to save their life

The long and short of it is learn to stay focused pool is every bit as much of a mind game as it is a ability game , there is no substitute for playing better other than playing better players think of it as a learning experience stay focused and have fun , and you will improve along the way

1
 
I didn't play but a handful of games for 25 years while I was working and making money. I started playing again at age 46 and it took me six months to get any kind of a game back. Once my game came back it was better than it ever was and I was confident and winning a lot. Health issues has made my game go down a little but I still win a lot more games than I lose these days. My world of pool is small but some decent talent that keeps me interested.

Win or lose you will never see me without a smile on my face standing by a pool table or just watching the game, have fun with it.
 
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Wow, did not expect to get so much feedback so quickly. I don't feel so alone now. :p

To answer briefly some things that were brought up.

I am 44. My optometrist did mention biofocals might be necessary down the road.

Yeah, back when I used to play frequently I could run 4,5,6 balls. Funny thing though was I knew nothing about "tangent lines" or "Set-Pause-Finish" or other "esoterica" back then; I just played by instinct.

Someone mentioned playing in tourneys and gambling helped his game the most. I like the idea of tourneys. Maybe I should try. Don't gamble though. I couldn't afford to lose. I'm poor.

I do wear glasses. Have noticed that sometimes the top of my frames will impede my vision of the object ball when sighting. But really, I don't think it's a major issue. I see plenty of guys shooting pretty awesomely with glasses.

I'm based in San Francisco. I know there's a number of famous teachers here, like Bob Jewett. I opted for lessons with my local house pro, who's also well-known and a nice guy.

Lee, are you coming to the West Coast?

Honestly, though, I was thinking more like a group clinic or weekend thing might benefit me more. That way there's an opportunity to converse and practice with my fellow classmates. (It's so boring to practice alone!) Right now, I don't have any opportunity to talk shop with people. The good players don't want to be bothered and everyone else doesn't seem interested in Tangent Lines or why low-left would've been better on a certain shot.

after reading this post and your 1st one i have come to the conclusion that you are putting too much pressure on yourself. an interesting thing about your 1st post was where you stated you are being anihilated by guys you think have a worse stroke than you.

let me tell you this.... if you have not played in a long time you are going to lose matches to guys that have been playing regularly no matter if they have a perfect stroke or a chicken wing stroke , especially with the mental frame of mind you seem to have right now, so get used to it.

you can read all the books you want, watch all the dvd's you want but nothing, and i mean nothing beats table time.

quit worrying about how others shoot, quit over analylizing yourself and start relying more on your instinct and you will start feeling more comfortable and gain more confidence. subsequently you will start making shots you have been missing lately.

and lastly when you miss an easy shot dont get your bowels in an up roar , hell we all miss easy shots from time to time, thats why we are amateures instead of pros.:wink:
 
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.

I would bet big money that your problems come mostly from the mental part of the game. You can learn and get better but you cant learn everything overnight.

Look up perfectionism, in relation to sports psychology, and read about the symptoms it can present.

Another good book for you might be "The Practicing Mind."
 
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