Carom shot vs Billiard shot: definitions

S

SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
I've been trying to figure out precisely what each term means.

Scenario 1:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The CB then hits the 2B, and the 2B drops into the pocket.

Scenario 2:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The 1B then hits the 2B, and the 1B drops into the pocket.

Which shot is which, or are they totally interchangeable?

Thanks for your input,

-Blake
 
I would say they are both considered billiard or carom shots, same thing. It is just a matter of which ball you used. You would refer to it either as "I caromed the cue ball off the 1..." or "I caromed the 1 ball off the 2...". You could also use the word billiarded interchangeably with caromed, although I don't think that billiarded as a verb is technically even a real word, even though I hear it used often. Carom/caromed is the more widely used and proper of the two for these type situations in a pool game though. Billiard is more often used to denote contact between balls in one of the pocket-less billiard games.
 
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Quatsch83 said:
Scenario 1 is a billiard. Scenario 2 is a carom. They are not interchangeable.
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Well, maybe not quite that simple, but I believe that is usually how it is used.

In "The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Billiards" by Mike Shamos it says this for carom:

Carom The word is derived from the French caramboler, whose definition is "to touch the two other balls with one's own."
1. A contact between the cue ball and two other balls.
2. (Pocket Bill.) A shot in which the object ball strikes another before entering a pocket or in which the cue ball hits one object ball before pocketing another. Also called a Billiard Shot.
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And this for "Billiard Shot"

Billiard Shot A CAROM, that is, a shot in the game of Billiards. Often, just a BILLIARD. In Pocket Billiards, a carom that is used to pocket a ball or to obtain a suitable position.
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It sounds like Mike Shamos is confirming exactly what I had said. Either of the OP's two examples are both caroms as explained in point 2 of Mike's definition of carom. And a billiard is essentially the same as a carom according to Mike.
 
SloMoHolic said:
I've been trying to figure out precisely what each term means.

Scenario 1:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The CB then hits the 2B, and the 2B drops into the pocket.

Scenario 2:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The 1B then hits the 2B, and the 1B drops into the pocket.

Which shot is which, or are they totally interchangeable?

Thanks for your input,

-Blake
Click to expand...


Scenario 1 is called a billiard. Scenario 2 is called a carom. Frequently people will use the word "carom" generically and refer to a billiard as a carom, although that is not technically correct. But you don't usually hear anyone refer to a carom as a billiard.

EDIT: In terms of the etymology of "billiard" and "carom" I can't really say that I am any kind of expert. But my response above holds true with regard to the two words as they are generally used in *pool* today.

Speaking of not being technically correct, it is not technically correct to refer to top and bottom spin as "English". The term "English" should only be applied to left/right spin.

Fatz
 
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99 Critical Shots in Pool Definitions of Billiard and Carom

In Ray Martin's book the definitions of each are:

Billiard = Another word used for a carom, a shot where the cue ball glances off
one ball and goes on to hit another.

Carom = When a cue ball glances off the object ball into a second, or even a
third, ball, it is a carom.
Used as a verb, it means "glance off", i.e., carom off a ball or a cushion.
Also known as a "kiss", or to "kiss off" a given ball.


I only hope this may be useful to help with understanding the difference.
 
I always thought of a billiard as the contact between two balls, regardless of what happens.

Carom is contact between balls, but implies something about what happens after that contact or as part of the contact(s).

That is why it is called Pocket Billiards. It's billiard shots on a table that has pockets and where the objective is to pocket balls. EVERY shot is a billiard, since the cueball is being "shot" to hit object balls, every shot or safety involves a billiard between the cueball and object balls.

In pool, we tend to get so used to the fact that the cueball to object ball billiard is just assumed. It is, since it's mandatory of every shot and fundamental to the nature of the game. Which is why we think of caroms and billiards as being a multi-ball hit event. We tend to forget the first billiard, which is always there - the CB to OB.

We say - he made that shot! We could be saying, he made that billiard and pocketed the ball. Shot has replaced billiard. The OB isn't being shot anywhere. Everything depends upon the speed and position of the BILLIARD.
 
While we're on the subject… what are your favorite aiming systems or techniques for making these shots?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think there's a lot of variation in how people use the words. I'd back up a little and discuss shots that involve more than two balls. How about the following?

Multi-ball shots.

1. The first kind of multi-ball shots involves the cue ball striking a chain of object ball (two or more) and the final ball in the chain enters a pocket. This is a combination.

2. All other multi-ball shots. These are all called caroms or billiards if three balls are involved or sometimes miulti-ball caroms or multi-ball billiards if four or more balls are involved. The term "kiss" is also sometimes used for such shots.

"The cue ball caromed from the 1 to the 2 which kissed off the 5 to combo the 9 in." Or, "he pocketed the nine with a billiard from the 1 to the 2, which..."
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think there's a lot of variation in how people use the words. I'd back up a little and discuss shots that involve more than two balls. How about the following?

Multi-ball shots.

1. The first kind of multi-ball shots involves the cue ball striking a chain of object ball (two or more) and the final ball in the chain enters a pocket. This is a combination.

2. All other multi-ball shots. These are all called caroms or billiards if three balls are involved or sometimes miulti-ball caroms or multi-ball billiards if four or more balls are involved. The term "kiss" is also sometimes used for such shots.

"The cue ball caromed from the 1 to the 2 which kissed off the 5 to combo the 9 in." Or, "he pocketed the nine with a billiard from the 1 to the 2, which..."
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Being a simple minded Software guy as I am(Keep It Simple Stupid)
I have always heard and used the following:

1. CB shot into an OB - CB then goes and pockets yet another OB, is a
Carom or Billiard.

2. shooting one OB into another OB so that the firstmost OB goes into
a pocket - is a "Kiss" shot.

3. Knocking an OB into a second<or more> OB(s) which in turn is
pocketed is a Combination.

Neither kissing an Ob in, nor Caroming to pocket an OB are classified as
Combination shots.

Multiple combined results and methods are possible if one shoots
hard enough.

All puns are strictly intentional - fouls are not - usually.

Dale
 
SloMoHolic said:
I've been trying to figure out precisely what each term means.

Scenario 1:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The CB then hits the 2B, and the 2B drops into the pocket.

Scenario 2:
You hit the CB into the 1B. The 1B then hits the 2B, and the 1B drops into the pocket.

Which shot is which, or are they totally interchangeable?

Thanks for your input,

-Blake
Click to expand...

My experience is that carom and billiard are used interchangeably.

Let us not forget the "tickie" while were on the subject.
 
#1 is a Billiard and #2 is a Carom shot and like stated above... There is no other definition.

These situations are not combos, both caroms, both billiards or jump shots :rolleyes:

I don't get the debate when its pretty black and white :speechless:
 
I agree with those who've said:

1) Billiard
2) Carom

While they may often be used interchangeably, they should be used more descriptively and using them in the manner above is most descriptive.

Also, anyone who calls either of them a combination should re-read the scenarios.
 
RunoutJJ said:
#1 is a Billiard and #2 is a Carom shot and like stated above... There is no other definition.

These situations are not combos, both caroms, both billiards or jump shots :rolleyes:

I don't get the debate when its pretty black and white :speechless:
Click to expand...

You are right, there is no other definition, and it is pretty black and white. Billiard and carom are the same thing. Mike Shamos and Bob Jewett, two of the worlds leading authorities on pool, and arguably THE two leading authorities on pool in the world, both say they are the same thing. If you aren't aware of their overwhelming credentials, do a google search.

At this point now that they have both weighed in, anybody who is disagreeing just has no sense whatsoever. You may be used to people using the terms incorrectly, and so you think they have two meanings, but like those you heard it from, you would be wrong. Even the dictionaries that have definitions for the two terms say they are the same thing, as do all the pool books, etc.
 
From The Book of Definitive Definitions:

Carom Shot (also commonly referred to as a Billiard Shot): a lucky shot in which the shooter pretends to have purposely missed one ball in order to make another. See Slop Shot.

In order from a Carom Shot to count, the shooter must, after completing the shot, say "I thought that would happen."
 
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