CB or OB - Did I Misunderstand?

[Andrew Manning]

i just wanted to post this separate thread regarding the old debate of what do you look at last - the cue ball or the object ball.

did i misunderstand here, perhaps? i've always said that i look at the CB last when i shoot. now, am i correct in the assumption that what people are referring to with the word "LAST" is what you are looking at when you strike the CB?

after i strike the CB i've noticed my eyes pretty much immediately shift to the OB. the time it takes for the CB to strike the OB can vary, depending on whether its a short shot or a long shot. but are some people that say they look at the OB last really meaning that just before the CB contacts the OB they shift their eyes to the OB? meaning they are indeed looking at the CB when they strike it and then shift to the OB before the collission?

DCP

When people say which ball they look at last, they're talking about the ball they're looking at when they strike the CB. For most, it's the OB.

We all know you look at the CB last. Most people don't recommend this on most shots, because it doesn't lead to optimal directional accuracy. You claim it works better for you, and then back that up by complaining about all the shots you miss. I think you should maybe look into those eye patterns Randy referred to.

-Andrew

 

[Russ Chewning]

I think in your case you should look at the CB first, last and always. Forget there even is an OB and just fire away. I think the results may surprise you. You'll probably make more balls and have more fun.

Just remember, "hit 'em hard and hope!" Six pockets means six chances to make a ball if it's rolling fast enough. I do not charge for these valuable lessons, even though I know I should. If there's anything else you want to know, please don't hesitate to ask.

I'm very good when it comes to holding the cue properly (two hands for beginners), proper stance (one foot on the floor and one on the table provides excellent balance), and effective stroking (lunge, don't plunge!).

Pretty soon, you'll have students of your own to coach along the same path that got you where you're at today. Congratulations on the remarkable progress you have made already.

ZOMG! You KNOW yer a hopeless banger if Jay is making fun of you.. He's so nice to everyone (a byproduct of years spent hustling, no doubt..) that you really have to hit a nerve to get him started on you.

Russ

 

[lodini]

i just wanted to post this separate thread regarding the old debate of what do you look at last - the cue ball or the object ball.

did i misunderstand here, perhaps? i've always said that i look at the CB last when i shoot. now, am i correct in the assumption that what people are referring to with the word "LAST" is what you are looking at when you strike the CB?

after i strike the CB i've noticed my eyes pretty much immediately shift to the OB. the time it takes for the CB to strike the OB can vary, depending on whether its a short shot or a long shot. but are some people that say they look at the OB last really meaning that just before the CB contacts the OB they shift their eyes to the OB? meaning they are indeed looking at the CB when they strike it and then shift to the OB before the collission?

DCP

I am by no means a teacher, and am certainly a student to this game... but this is the way I was taught to look at it... maybe it can help you.

Think of the Object Ball as your target, and the Cue Ball/Cue combined as your weapon. Maybe a gun. You stare down the barrel of your gun, trying to shoot at that Object Ball. If you were really shooting a target, you would be looking at that target while you pull the trigger, and not at the tip of your gun.

The most important thing, before everything else, is making the ball, right?

 

[RBLilly]

I think in your case you should look at the CB first, last and always. Forget there even is an OB and just fire away. I think the results may surprise you. You'll probably make more balls and have more fun.

Just remember, "hit 'em hard and hope!" Six pockets means six chances to make a ball if it's rolling fast enough. I do not charge for these valuable lessons, even though I know I should. If there's anything else you want to know, please don't hesitate to ask.

I'm very good when it comes to holding the cue properly (two hands for beginners), proper stance (one foot on the floor and one on the table provides excellent balance), and effective stroking (lunge, don't plunge!).

Pretty soon, you'll have students of your own to coach along the same path that got you where you're at today. Congratulations on the remarkable progress you have made already.

Too Funny Jay!

 

[Bob Jewett]

i... they look at the OB last really meaning that just before the CB contacts the OB they shift their eyes to the OB? meaning they are indeed looking at the CB when they strike it and then shift to the OB before the collision? ...

The vast majority of people who talk about looking at the object ball last mean that the eyes should be focused on the object ball before the arm comes forward for the power stroke. Just like Ms. Fisher. I think that for many/most shots, there is hardly time to switch between the cue ball and object ball while the cue ball is moving.

 

[Snorks]

The vast majority of people who talk about looking at the object ball last mean that the eyes should be focused on the object ball before the arm comes forward for the power stroke. Just like Ms. Fisher. I think that for many/most shots, there is hardly time to switch between the cue ball and object ball while the cue ball is moving.

What percent of people do you figure look at the OB last? Although DCP might not agree, what percent do agree? I'm guessing 95%.. just a guess.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What percent of people do you figure look at the OB last? Although DCP might not agree, what percent do agree? I'm guessing 95%.. just a guess.

If we ignore "strange" shots, like jumps and masses, I think it's at least 95% and higher among good players. Some instructors have actually been known to teach "CB last" so there might be some students out there with that technique. It would be good to check, but I think you have to be by the table to really watch the eyes. I'll try to remember to take notes in Louisville.

For working on specific stroke problems, I think it's useful during practice to look at something else, whether that is the cue ball, the ferrule, or even to have your eyes closed. But that's in practice.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Wow.



Hey Pharoah, thanks for the new signature.

uh, Blackjack, i thought you always claimed to be a good Christian person? perhaps i was in error, and your not. obviously a person with Christian values wouldnt do something like that.

either way i guess my signature might say something like:

"There are good Christians, and then there are pretenders - also known as hypocrites"

"Thanks for clarifying for me which one you are BJ"

DCP

 

[Mark Avlon]

For those that look at the object ball last, how do you manage to make a ball when you kick? Where do you look when you masse'?

 

[Scott Lee]

Mike...You were given the how's, why's, when's and where's of eye patterns, both in the written information and the dvds that I left you with. Only you can choose to try to implement this information, whether it "feels good", or not. It takes time and dedication to integrate new information into a player's routine. It's definitely not an easy task for some players. You make the choice on what to use, and why you should or shouldn't use it...but it's all there for you, right in front of you. On top of that, you've got many others, including other instructors telling you the same thing. In the end, it's up to you...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

i just wanted to post this separate thread regarding the old debate of what do you look at last - the cue ball or the object ball.

did i misunderstand here, perhaps? i've always said that i look at the CB last when i shoot. now, am i correct in the assumption that what people are referring to with the word "LAST" is what you are looking at when you strike the CB?

after i strike the CB i've noticed my eyes pretty much immediately shift to the OB. the time it takes for the CB to strike the OB can vary, depending on whether its a short shot or a long shot. but are some people that say they look at the OB last really meaning that just before the CB contacts the OB they shift their eyes to the OB? meaning they are indeed looking at the CB when they strike it and then shift to the OB before the collission?

DCP

 

[RBLilly]

Quit!

Hey DCP...........why haven't you quit pool yet?

I thought since we didn't hear from you for a while that you chose to quit! It would be your best option, and I am sure many people would agree.

Then you could sleep at night without wondering what you did wrong on every shot you take.

How about you take up poker? I hear anyone can play that!

 

[Neil]

................

 

[ShootingArts]

the best argument for looking at the cue ball!

I am by no means a teacher, and am certainly a student to this game... but this is the way I was taught to look at it... maybe it can help you.

Think of the Object Ball as your target, and the Cue Ball/Cue combined as your weapon. Maybe a gun. You stare down the barrel of your gun, trying to shoot at that Object Ball. If you were really shooting a target, you would be looking at that target while you pull the trigger, and not at the tip of your gun.

The most important thing, before everything else, is making the ball, right?

Lodini,

You just made the best argument for looking at the cue ball! When shooting the front sight is everything and that would equate to the cue ball. I'm not touching the cue ball/object ball discussion though. I find that I sometimes look at one sometimes the other and sometimes after the shot is set up I look at neither. If I were betting I would bet my best accuracy is when I am looking at nothing. I think when I my eyes are unfocused it prevents the unconscious steering that can happen to most of us sometimes.

I have seen many good shooters who didn't know what they looked at last or would tell you with conviction that they looked at one thing or the other when their lying eyes told me differently.

Anybody that can watch Ralf Souquet's eyes and tell me what he looks at last? His eyes jitter back and forth like a speed freak's but it works for him!

Hu

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[Blackjack]

uh, Blackjack, i thought you always claimed to be a good Christian person? perhaps i was in error, and your not. obviously a person with Christian values wouldnt do something like that.

either way i guess my signature might say something like:

"There are good Christians, and then there are pretenders - also known as hypocrites"

"Thanks for clarifying for me which one you are BJ"

DCP

For starters, thanks for the label.

You come on here asking for advice on just about every shot that you miss. You have been given instruction personally by some of the best minds on this forum. You basically try to prove that no amount of instruction will ever get you where you think you should be.

I'm beginning to believe that you are playing a game with all of your questions, as well as your sob stories about how you missed this shot or that shot. Get over it. When I miss a shot, the effect it has upon me is the same effect a small spark would have when it falls into the ocean. Get over it.

You are the only person I have come into contact with in over 35+ years that has shown absolutely no improvement after getting some of the best instruction that the world has to offer. That leads many of us to believe that there may be something wrong with you, not the instruction.

Think about that for a while.

 

[3kushn]

There are some shots, far and few between, where CB English is far more important than OB hit ie special/rare kick shots. Otherwise OB is the one to look at. PEP takes care of the CB in 99% of all shots.

 

[lodini]

Lodini,

You just made the best argument for looking at the cue ball! When shooting the front sight is everything and that would equate to the cue ball. I'm not touching the cue ball/object ball discussion though. I find that I sometimes look at one sometimes the other and sometimes after the shot is set up I look at neither. If I were betting I would bet my best accuracy is when I am looking at nothing. I think when I my eyes are unfocused it prevents the unconscious steering that can happen to most of us sometimes.

I have seen many good shooters who didn't know what they looked at last or would tell you with conviction that they looked at one thing or the other when their lying eyes told me differently.

Anybody that can watch Ralf Souquet's eyes and tell me what he looks at last? His eyes jitter back and forth like a speed freak's but it works for him!

Hu

Sorry, Hu... but my point was definitely about looking at the object ball last. From what I was taught, I line up where on the cue ball I want to hit, and then it's a little back and forth but mostly object ball from that point on. (and definitely object ball while pulling the trigger)

 

[Russ Chewning]

Lodini,

You just made the best argument for looking at the cue ball! When shooting the front sight is everything and that would equate to the cue ball. I'm not touching the cue ball/object ball discussion though. I find that I sometimes look at one sometimes the other and sometimes after the shot is set up I look at neither. If I were betting I would bet my best accuracy is when I am looking at nothing. I think when I my eyes are unfocused it prevents the unconscious steering that can happen to most of us sometimes.

I have seen many good shooters who didn't know what they looked at last or would tell you with conviction that they looked at one thing or the other when their lying eyes told me differently.

Anybody that can watch Ralf Souquet's eyes and tell me what he looks at last? His eyes jitter back and forth like a speed freak's but it works for him!

Hu

Actually... I would equate the front sight (near barrel tip) to the OB, and the rear sight (right in front of eye) to the CB. You can be looking directly through the rear sight, but if you aren't lined up with the front sight, you ain't hitting jack. Just like you can be looking at the CB and not hit anything, but if you line up through to the point your CB passes through when it strikes the OB, that's correct fundamentals.

Russ

 

[lodini]

Actually... I would equate the front sight (near barrel tip) to the OB, and the rear sight (right in front of eye) to the CB. You can be looking directly through the rear sight, but if you aren't lined up with the front sight, you ain't hitting jack. Just like you can be looking at the CB and not hit anything, but if you line up through to the point your CB passes through when it strikes the OB, that's correct fundamentals.

Russ

Thanks, Russ! That's what I was trying to get at... just couldn't state it as eloquently as you did

 

[ShootingArts]

just was a chuckle!

Sorry, Hu... but my point was definitely about looking at the object ball last. From what I was taught, I line up where on the cue ball I want to hit, and then it's a little back and forth but mostly object ball from that point on. (and definitely object ball while pulling the trigger)

Just a chuckle, I was well aware of what you meant. I have to say that the object ball or the point on the rail you are aiming at to kick into the object ball is the target, so logically the cue ball or tip has to equate to the front sight. Occasionally my front sight on a firearm is moving around as much as my tip but I don't hit much when it does so I do think that the cue ball equates to the front sight. Thinking about guns reminded me of the quirk in the next paragraph that might be food for thought for those that don't use a consistent eye pattern.

This may or may not apply to pool but I think it has some impact on long shots for people that don't consistently look at either one ball or the other last except for on special shots: Focusing on the front sight, I could shoot very small groups as a master class pistol competitor. A good friend who was also a master class competitor looked through his sights at the target. He could also shoot tiny groups, not as small as mine but . . . . However if we shot the same gun we would shoot small groups in two completely different places on the target with both of us aiming at the bullseye. I suspect this does translate into something that is important on longer shots on a pool table, you must choose one way of shooting and stick with it until you are ready to swap to only using another eye pattern. The only thing this doesn't apply to is a masse shot and I presume a jump shot, I have never jumped regularly. Binocular vision demands that we have parallax in our vision everywhere but at one focal distance or small range.

Hu