Center Pocket Music, the long-awaited CTE Pro One book, by Stan Shuffett.
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
I think there is a misnomer going on here. None of these pro's use objective reference points in order to aim in the same way CTE claims to. In my case I line up center to center and that helps me see how big of a cut angle I have. I don't really need to do it and I don't do it on all shots. It's just a habit but is probably something that helps me see the angle so I keep doing it. It probably takes 0.5 seconds. When I see center to center I am standing up and as I get down on the shot I am moving into the correct position so that when it "looks right" I stop moving. Ultimately I am in shooting position lined up correctly and it "looks" right. In CTE there is no "looks right." You are only finding the initial objective reference points and then theoretically get down on the shot and hit it without concern for where the pocket is and if the shot "looks right." The "looks right" part is what every pro on that list does and is what CTE says you don't need. In other words, the "looks right" is the important point of what the pro's are doing and they are thinking if it looks right throughout their PSR. The PSR itself is not finding the shot line. I'd say it is more of a habit or ritual to keep things consistent. None of those things find the shot line for the player. He already knows the shot line and when he is on it before pulling the trigger.
Double check what ?
Ghost ball is good for double checking your edge is lined up to A?
Pro players, CTE certified instructors, Top Amateurs who use CTE, and good amateurs well versed and taught with CTE use it EXACTLY as learned!
ALL of the pro players and CTE certified instructors have spent many hours personally at the table with Stan and don't become certified UNLESS they can teach and use it exactly as it's supposed to be. Stan has a tough grading criteria.
To claim otherwise is a FLAT OUT LIE and another belittling of the people themselves and the system! STOP THIS CRAP ALREADY!!
ALL of the pro players and CTE certified instructors have spent many hours personally at the table with Stan and don't become certified UNLESS they can teach and use it exactly as it's supposed to be. Stan has a tough grading criteria.
To claim otherwise is a FLAT OUT LIE and another belittling of the people themselves and the system! STOP THIS CRAP ALREADY!!
Sigh. Joey, please stop. Regardless of what aiming method is used the line must resolve to ghost ball. So knowing this one can use a ghost ball template to check the visuals and see if it resolves to ghost ball lined up to the intended target. One can also work backwards from ghost ball to pick up the proper visuals. The ghost ball template is ignored when the CTE method is used and is only useful to double check the shot line arrived at to see if it is correct. It was used in exactly this way in the video you showed. That was by the way one of the better CTE videos I did and it's silly of you to make some wild accusation that I wasn't using CTE and was intentionally deceiving others.
Also, just an FYI, calling me "fatso" is interesting because you were essentially insulting my body size from a few years ago.
I would suggest you embody this attitude when trying to body-shame others.
no, they use OBJECTIVE parts of the balls as guides. No misnomer. And you're wrong about looks right in CTE. You would know this if you bothered to actually study CTE.
The difference is that the CTE method gets you within a mm of the actual shot line so that "looks right" comes way way easier. More importantly you have objective reference visuals that you can use to very quickly see what looks wrong. Of course one is concerned about WHERE the pocket is but in CTE one does not have to use the pocket as part of the process.
If a player starts out with an objective alignment, ie they stand in one spot where they can see center to center and they then scan left of right depending on the cut direct and stop when it "looks right" then that player has IN FACT used a systematic objective method to aim. They have reduced their choices to somewhere on half of the object ball and are doing a form of stepping with their eyes to choose the shot line. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. I agree that "feel" is being use but it is AFTER a concrete baseline is established to estimate from.
A habit or ritual that incorporates starting from the SAME objective reference, center to center, for the purpose of consistency IS by definition a form of objective aiming. Call it the CTC-Sweep method but if Tommy defines it and you say it's what you do as well then now you're a small group of CTC aimers
Hey, John, it also looks like your hair color is kinda weird in that video, kinda reddish — what’s up with that?
Lou Figueroa
I call that BS.
Once you place a template down there, you can pretend any system is being used but your tip is conveniently easily pointed to the center of the template which is the aiming line .
And on that shot , you are never going to convince me you would be more accurate with your objective system that requires all that plus a half tip pivot than just committing to the aiming line/center of the gb and setup for it . Then go down straight on that line .
I suggest you quit mudslinging if you don't want mud going your way too.
You've called me worse adjectives and nouns.
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One thousand thank yous
Several times a year I dye my hair and my family gets to vote on the color.
You can claim what you want to. The fact is on the shot you are speaking of that the most accurate of the attempts was when I had the GB template and I shot the cueball to the center of the GB. However, as I have stated hundreds of times, when the physical template is not there then NOTHING is there to orient from except the object ball working backwards. So without the template the task of laying the cue down on the actual GB shot line is way harder.
You call this "mud"? This is your super duper revelation is to claim that I didn't use CTE for ONE shot where I was clearly having trouble finding the right visual and I told the audience that I would use the GB template to work through the visuals and find the one that resolved to the template? I would say you would need to really be a mind reader to ascertain that because even PJ says constantly that shotmaking doesn't prove the use of any system at all. So either you agree that people are using CTE when they say they are and GB when they say they are or you agree with Pat that you can't possibly know what someone is doing versus what they say they are doing. That you would accuse me of being fraudulent for one shot in that video is truly silly. But I will grant you some stalker points for watching it. Too bad you aren't prepared to learn.
Worse? Like what? You're a terrible unethical person. If you don't like those labels stop being terrible and unethical. This flimsiest of accusations is further evidence of your lack of good morals.
Huh?
It's a semi straight in shot . Are you gonna aim the center of the cue ball to the center of the OB ? No. Why not ?
Because you know it's not a straight in shot . Are you going to aim at the contact point ? No, because you know it would be short . Whalah , aim a little outside of the contact point .
Heck, double the distance would be easier than that all that edge to this then to A then go down half a tip off center then pivot to center .
Oh please, you're not the poster boy for honesty and morals . Let's not even dig your past . Lord.
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A semi-straight shot? How straight? 5 degrees, 7.6? 9? 3?
Since you don't know cte you really can't say what's easier. Feel free to make videos showing off whatever contact point shift method that you think would be good for players to use.
I am going to bet that you won't make any videos. You're a knocker not a creator.
Son, you can make any claim you want to but the only thing that matters here is your conduct right here.
You have essentially called players who use cte liars. But you don't have the stones to say it outright and won't answer direct questions.
Why are you here?
How would you know what's easier?
Part of a learning process. I don't need it, I can figure out out through trial and error. Using a template is simply one method to use during practice if wanted.
I know that you need CTE because whatever you do to aim is not consistent. I don't know why you are here though. You want to knock but you have no good alternative to offer.
Your brute force rote method is not anything new. So why are you here except to knock and dissuade people from trying cte and denigrating those who report success with it?
Used a commercialized duckie's patch.
You keep saying this. How do you know it is true, and please don't say "Because Stan said so"?
My point is that the habit or ritual is not the important part of aiming. It is the recognition of when the shot is good that matters and that is only gained through experience. It's like the basketball player at the free throw line going through the same ritual before throwing the ball. Bounce the ball twice, bend knees a bit, bounce ball twice more, bend knees again then shoot. Tennis serve - flip racquet in hand a couple times. Plant feet, bounce ball 7 times, not 6, not 8, then begin serve. Pool, line up CTC or edge of shaft to whatever, find ABC and NISL, put tip on cloth as you get down etc etc and then get into shooting position. Whatever you did up to this point is a PSR and everybody should be on the same shot line at this point. Everybody who now looks at the object ball has to make a decision whether the shot looks right. This is the important part of the shooting process and my argument is that this is really the part where you aim and we all do it the same way, through experience.
Because I mapped out out on a 9ft precise drawing on Corel draw. From the back of the cue ball the exit lines have less than 1mm with most being less than .5mm difference between the center to edge line and the actual ghost ball line. So if a person did nothing else other than to stand on the center to edge line they would actually be looking at the back of the cueball extremely close to the shot line.
Some of us have gone far deeper on this than you realize. We enjoy it. That's why we reject your assertions and would respect you if we thought you actually cared.
Instead you cherry pick and denigrate instead of discuss. Yes we get it that you think only rote repetition of the only way to learn to aim. So did we at one time. A system doesn't replace practice or repetition. It doesn't replace the development of sensory perception and spatial judgement. It enhances those things.
Just like ghost ball ball does. It is a method of taking a solid object and using one's visual acuity to align the stick to the cueball. It works but is highly reliant on imagination and precise judgement of size in inches at distances of several feet.
In contrast using lines that are connected by solid objects allows the shooter to have repeatable references that dial them in so to speak. That's what you center to center starting line does for you. It is a calibration method whereby you start with an easily definable reference line and move away from that line to a stopping point.
Cte uses one more line and a prescribed physical motion for that dialing-in process.
I have said all of this before but you and the rest have not even bothered to discuss it. You see Dan, the difference is that when you have anything that objects I take it to the table to test it out. When someone proposes a test I take it to the table to to see how cte handles that task. When pat posts a diagram claiming 27 discrete angles I set it up and shoot to see how cte does.
I am not Stan, I am not Hal, I am John and I don't accept their words either without testing them on the table.
Out of that diagramming I made a video that I call convergence lines. This was 9 years ago. I will do a video about your center to center method and show you what I think you're getting from doing it that way. Whether you want to believe it or not you are aiming semi-systematically when you use the center line as your starting point.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Geesh, what a shitter this thread has turned into.
I just wanted to post that I finally ordered the Center Pocket Music book, and even decided to splurge and get the training ball. I'm not a real believer in training balls, but figured I might as well get the whole package.
I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to put all this into practice as I'm about to pull the trigger on fixing the rattle on my Olhausen.
How does one go about joining the FB group? I don't really need to join yet as I have no questions since I just now ordered the book.
I just wanted to post that I finally ordered the Center Pocket Music book, and even decided to splurge and get the training ball. I'm not a real believer in training balls, but figured I might as well get the whole package.
I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to put all this into practice as I'm about to pull the trigger on fixing the rattle on my Olhausen.
How does one go about joining the FB group? I don't really need to join yet as I have no questions since I just now ordered the book.