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The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
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As of tomorrow color me a straight pool player.... Watching the Accu-Stats 14.1 invitational up close and personal gave me a new perspective on the game... In my area it's 9-ball 8-ball and 1-pocket.. Growing up even 1-pocket was a foreign game that only a few old guys took up after they couldn't run out anymore.....

The matches this week were the first straight pool matches I have seen and I was surprised at how much I liked the game even tho I know nothing of the nuances or the high level pattern play and decision making.....

As I was riding to the airport with Pat Fleming we were discussing using straight pool as a good indicator of progress... I mentioned that I was thinking about swapping over to 14.1 as my practice game and I was intending on filming it to see how long it took me to get 100... Pat laughed and said I wouldn't get to 100 in my lifetime..... Being the eternal optimist I am thinking I'll get 100 on video within a year.. I should have asked for odds from Pat since a year is a whole lot shorter than the rest of my lifetime... Well lets hope so at least....

I'll use this thread to post progress and post my first 50-60-70-80-90 and 100.... First session will be tomorrow but I am pretty sure I am not going to be posting a vid that fast... I'll be happy to get into the 20s starting out.......

Chris
 
Chris, from what I can remember, you sound like a very strong player. In a short time, I could run into the 20's. I hardly ever play, but pretty sure I've gone around 30. The tricky part is knowing how to do the break shots from different spots, such that you don't stick yourself to the stack. I don't think a good high run should be too hard for you. For me, it was the constant focus that was hard to deal with, because just slacking off on one ball could bite back.
 
Banks said:
Chris, from what I can remember, you sound like a very strong player. In a short time, I could run into the 20's. I hardly ever play, but pretty sure I've gone around 30. The tricky part is knowing how to do the break shots from different spots, such that you don't stick yourself to the stack. I don't think a good high run should be too hard for you. For me, it was the constant focus that was hard to deal with, because just slacking off on one ball could bite back.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the break shots after the first rack are really key for me. Learning unique ways to set up the break shot have made a big difference for me. I used to pick my break ball right away and was unwilling to move it or change balls.
Because of that I was not flexible in my shot selections and it caused me to fail more often than not if I got a little out of position.
I have also learned that keeping one ball up table is a handy tool.
 
The break shots will definitely be a weakness as will my patterns to start... Actually getting the muscle memory back up to hit the ball consistently will be the first challenge.. I had switched to playing 1pocket because I wasn't putting any time in on the tables... I can't say it's a been a complete layoff but I don't think I have played more than 1-2 times a week in the last 4 years and most weeks its a big fat zero....

Most of the projects are done at the house and the next 2 Outsville products are past the design phase so I should be able to make some time... I figure the pool tabs may get me back on track to finishing the rebuild on my home table... 10 bucks an hour to practice alone just doesn't sit well being that I am long in the tooth and it was 5 an hour until about 4 years ago... Think there is a connection with the rate hike and my layoff LOL.....

My packages consist of 8 racks of 8ball... & 7 racks of 9ball.... But the break is huge in those games and I get to put the cueball where I want it instead of having to play position LOL... I tried to see what I could do at 14.1 a few years ago for 5-6 days 4 hour sessions and had one really good night where I got thru multiple racks but I don't recall the number anymore... I kept getting good spreads off the break shots... most of my runs ended at 14 or less because I dogged something easy or got bad on the break or missed the break ball trying to hit the rack :angry:

We will see how it goes and thanks for the encouragement :thumbup:

Chris
 
I was playing in a straight pool league a couple summers in a row and hated every minute of it lol until last year. I would play super conservative and matches would be boring and take forever. I would make the open balls then get into a safety battle. I was playing a bad player one night and thought I'm not playing another 2 and a half hour safety fest. If I'm going to play this damn game I'm going to learn something from it. So I started playing as it's supposed to be played setting up my break outs and string racks together. Guess what? I got a lot better quickly and i started enjoying the game! It's amazing how much better my ability to break out and understand where to hit to clusters and what there going to do when I do has gotten. It's the game of champions for a reason.
 
Chris:

I agree with Banks. Straight pool is much, MUCH more than just strong shooting. It is a patterns game -- probably THE grandaddy patterns game. Everything revolves around your ability to manage the table's patterns. Some are repeating patterns. Others are patterns that only ingenuity will solve. You will soon learn that the short-rack rotation numbskulls who say straight pool is easier than short-rack rotation "because you can shoot at any ball in straight pool, and you can always adjust," are just plain wrong. Being able to shoot at any ball means you are LESS likely to stick with your original pattern. (I.e. short-rack rotation players will go, "oh well, if I miss position on that ball, I'll always have another shot" -- and they'll do exactly that, too -- miss position, and then realize they've fenced themselves into a corner because they are now shooting off their planned break ball, or shooting off a key ball that offers easy position to that break ball.)

Also, you'll find that your "touch" will improve with straight pool. No longer are you "playing to areas," but rather to very specific spots on the table. Miss that spot by mere inches, and you are now on the wrong side of the ball, or worse, don't have a shot at all.

Anyway, this is a game -- like one pocket -- where you are constantly learning. No blind "auto-pilot" in this game like there is in short-rack rotation (where you can blindly just shoot at balls) -- you have to be on your toes, and your patterns, the whole time.

After playing this game for a little while, you'll then understand why straight poolers chuckle when short-rack rotation players talk about "patterns" in their game. :p

I have to agree, somewhat, with Pat in that reaching 100 so quickly *will* be a near-Herculean feat, no matter *how* good you shoot. This game isn't about shooting; it's about problem and pattern solving. That's the part that short-rack rotation players don't (and can't, because they don't have the knowledge) place emphasis on. In this game, the balls don't tell you how to take them off the table -- you have to figure that out on your own, and all the while leave yourself with a called breakshot into the next rack.

It took me many years to break 100, but admittedly, straight pool was one of my first games that I learned. I ran a 98 a couple weeks ago, and as always seems to be the case with me -- it's a silly mistake that prevented me from going further -- hanging the ball up in the pocket on the breakshot for the 8th rack.

You'll see. ;) But with this game, the journey is the reward. :thumbup2:

-Sean
 
I don't know you so I can't make any predictions on how quickly you'll get to 100. I'll say this though, new players to 14.1 can often offer a different perspective. It's a fresh look at the game. A lot of guys who have been playing 14.1 their whole lives spend every rack trying to achieve traditional set-ups, use traditional breaks and will play safe in traditional situations. It's the new guy that has never seen the game that might actually think of something new.

With that said, to get to 100 in a year, you have to be aggressive. It's not just solid pattern play (although that's almost necessary). You need to be able to look at the remaining 10 balls and say, "How many of these balls can I use as a break shot?" There are the obvious ones which you'll try to keep but there are the less obvious ones that you're going to need to learn (or perhaps you already know about). Good 14.1 players will make their own break shots. Great 14.1 players will recognize when they need to do this very early in the rack.

In my opinion, the hardest part about running 100 is maintaining focus. It's not that you get lazy, you never really do. It's just different than games like 9ball. The position play can get very tight and you're trying to fit into a small spot and only after you pull the trigger do you realize you forgot to make the ball.
 
Break Shots

The Renfro said:
The break shots will definitely be a weakness as will my patterns to start... Actually getting the muscle memory back up to hit the ball consistently will be the first challenge.. I had switched to playing 1pocket because I wasn't putting any time in on the tables... I can't say it's a been a complete layoff but I don't think I have played more than 1-2 times a week in the last 4 years and most weeks its a big fat zero....

Most of the projects are done at the house and the next 2 Outsville products are past the design phase so I should be able to make some time... I figure the pool tabs may get me back on track to finishing the rebuild on my home table... 10 bucks an hour to practice alone just doesn't sit well being that I am long in the tooth and it was 5 an hour until about 4 years ago... Think there is a connection with the rate hike and my layoff LOL.....

My packages consist of 8 racks of 8ball... & 7 racks of 9ball.... But the break is huge in those games and I get to put the cueball where I want it instead of having to play position LOL... I tried to see what I could do at 14.1 a few years ago for 5-6 days 4 hour sessions and had one really good night where I got thru multiple racks but I don't recall the number anymore... I kept getting good spreads off the break shots... most of my runs ended at 14 or less because I dogged something easy or got bad on the break or missed the break ball trying to hit the rack :angry:

We will see how it goes and thanks for the encouragement :thumbup:

Chris
Click to expand...


Usually there will be multiple break shots in each rack.

It's a trick to just break a few out at a time and keep moving balls into position.

You certainly don't want to bust 'em all wide open on just one break shot.
 
The MIH event was some of the most interesting 14.1 I've ever seen.

As far as the game is concerned it is much more difficult than you would expect, a very
challenging game. Unfortunately all we have around here is bar box 8 and 9 ball not that I'm against those games. When I go to AZ for the winter I do get to play,
but probably not enough to start getting really good at the game. My main opponent is an "old school style" player, I would really like to hit them like Holhmann, awesome player.

14.1 is also a great game for practice and definately helps with all the other games.
 
I've been playing straight pool for over 50 years and have had a lot of pretty good runs.
One thing I have learned and am always aware of is this- After the break shot if there are several choices as to the first shot you have to consider it carefully. A lot of times the first shot will set the tone for the whole rack. Make the wrong decision and you could be out of line for the entire rack. Make the right decision and the rack will be a lot easier.
As any good straight pool player will tell you-the 3 most important things in the game are patterns-patterns-patterns in no particular order.
 
The Renfro said:
My packages consist of 8 racks of 8ball... & 7 racks of 9ball.... But the break is huge in those games and I get to put the cueball where I want it instead of having to play position LOL... I tried to see what I could do at 14.1 a few years ago for 5-6 days 4 hour sessions and had one really good night where I got thru multiple racks but I don't recall the number anymore... I kept getting good spreads off the break shots... most of my runs ended at 14 or less because I dogged something easy or got bad on the break or missed the break ball trying to hit the rack :angry:

We will see how it goes and thanks for the encouragement :thumbup:

Chris
Click to expand...

My best packages are 5 once and 4 twice in 9 ball. With that being said, my high run in straight pool is 47. I haven't played consistently in over a year, and I am probably 1-2 balls better than I was when I was playing 14.1 all the time.

I would say you can get to 100. I would like to get there myself, but I need to play much more. The best I've ever done is 93 in three innings (can't remember the ball counts but 93 balls with two misses is not too shabby).
 
Good luck, Chris. I've only been able to get past the 1st rack a couple of times, but I really haven't played that much 14.1 to begin with. I know my high is less than 20.

I'll be very interested in your progress. Please remember to document what brand, size of table and pockets, so there can be some comparisons.

Ask Pat about his 54" cue, btw. He personally told me in Tunica a few months ago that using it "was stealing". It almost makes me want to try to have one built. I think I'll ask him more about it the next time I call Accu-Stats.

I'm glad you started this thread. I think I'm going to start working on some 14.1 to see how it affects my other disciplines.

How does everyone start games of 14.1 when they're practicing alone? Do they rack 14 balls and place an OB in a good break-out spot with BIH, smack it in and go from there? Seems like that's the only way I can think to do it.....
 
Hi, I'm a short rack rotation player. I've been playing APA nine ball for six or seven years. I decided to learn straight pool after watching a run by Thorston (152 I believe). Watching this game when's its played well is the most entertaining form of pool IMO.

Learning to play the game was way different than imagined. It takes a lot of discipline and patients to play 14.1. It's a whole different kind of cue ball control. I didn't have anyone to learn from so I got a lot of help from the guys on the 14.1 forum. After six months of play I had a high run of 29 that ended on my third break shot when the cue bal froze to the stack. I was thrilled to run two racks and complete three break shots. Good luck, this is a really fun game
 
Pretty lofty goal....

The Renfro said:
As of tomorrow color me a straight pool player.... Watching the Accu-Stats 14.1 invitational up close and personal gave me a new perspective on the game... In my area it's 9-ball 8-ball and 1-pocket.. Growing up even 1-pocket was a foreign game that only a few old guys took up after they couldn't run out anymore.....

The matches this week were the first straight pool matches I have seen and I was surprised at how much I liked the game even tho I know nothing of the nuances or the high level pattern play and decision making.....

As I was riding to the airport with Pat Fleming we were discussing using straight pool as a good indicator of progress... I mentioned that I was thinking about swapping over to 14.1 as my practice game and I was intending on filming it to see how long it took me to get 100... Pat laughed and said I wouldn't get to 100 in my lifetime..... Being the eternal optimist I am thinking I'll get 100 on video within a year.. I should have asked for odds from Pat since a year is a whole lot shorter than the rest of my lifetime... Well lets hope so at least....

I'll use this thread to post progress and post my first 50-60-70-80-90 and 100.... First session will be tomorrow but I am pretty sure I am not going to be posting a vid that fast... I'll be happy to get into the 20s starting out.......

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris
100 balls is quite a goal to set. I could hear the excitement in your voice when we talked the other day about 14.1. You have been bitten by the straight pool bug.
I didn't realise until this thread that you had had such little exposure to the game. It is extremely addictive....as you will see.
I apparently came to the game in the reverse order than you did, playing 14.1 early in life then bar room 8-ball and 9-ball and now back to 14.1 and everything else.
Interesting how being from different parts of the country can influence how and when you discover and rediscover the game. I also have recently set a 14.1 goal for the coming year, run my age ! I'll be thrilled if I can achieve it.
I'm looking forward to next week to watch the best in the world play. It will be great motivation for us all!
Good Luck and be sure to keep us up to date with your progress! :grin-square:
Dave
 
fathomblue said:
Good luck, Chris. I've only been able to get past the 1st rack a couple of times, but I really haven't played that much 14.1 to begin with. I know my high is less than 20.

I'll be very interested in your progress. Please remember to document what brand, size of table and pockets, so there can be some comparisons.

Ask Pat about his 54" cue, btw. He personally told me in Tunica a few months ago that using it "was stealing". It almost makes me want to try to have one built. I think I'll ask him more about it the next time I call Accu-Stats.

I'm glad you started this thread. I think I'm going to start working on some 14.1 to see how it affects my other disciplines.

How does everyone start games of 14.1 when they're practicing alone? Do they rack 14 balls and place an OB in a good break-out spot with BIH, smack it in and go from there? Seems like that's the only way I can think to do it.....
Click to expand...

I hit some balls with Pat's cue Wednesday... I am several inches taller than he is so it wasn't for me but then again I may change my tune as I get into 14.1 and don't need a big stroke for moving the cueball around the table... Pat's was made by Skip Wesson I think although I would bet he has a ton of others at home.....

As far as how I intend to start it will be like they do at the Straight pool challenge... Setup your favorite break and off you go.... You can either start over or just start from where you miss after that but the math will be easier if you start from a break shot each attempt....

I think there is a video out by Capelle I may look into... He took the last 5 shots from a bunch of racks and went thru the pattern chosen with the whys.....

Will try and keep this thread updated as I go...... I'll be playing on either a 9' diamond pro-am with 4.5 inch pockets or a 9' AE Schmidt.. Will have to measure the pockets but it hangs balls up because the pocket cuts are jacked which makes up for it being a larger pocket.......

Chris
 
Try to find any Rempe 14.1 videos you can get your hands on. He plays some of the best patterns of anyone I've ever seen. You'll see how to almost always have an insurance ball when breaking a cluster.
 
Down at one of our local pool rooms, (which happens to be closed now), they had a 45 ball rack.

That was a lot of fun to break and try to run those balls out. Learned clusters real quick. :)
 
Get a jump-start... Watch John Schmidt's videos!
I think his most informative one is "How I Run 100's"
... there's also a 112 run on accustats with commentary.
Then there's his 294 and 366 ball run, there's his commentary and I think Bill Marapolous joins in too.

One point he made that I found interesting is to try picking up the pace. You can't sit there and agonize
over every ball for a hundred shots in a row, or 200, or 400. it's too draining.

This almost runs a little contrary to some of the comments on here that suggest you must
bear down and stay extra focused and play super tight position and plan carefully.
To some extent john can play fast because he's seen every straight pool situation
on earth 1000 times and instantly knows what to do and where to go.

But honestly I think what he's saying is, pick out the important balls, and of course be careful with them.
And always look to solve problems and pick off tricky ones.
But for the rest of the balls, try to let autopilot take over. He basically seems to play kind of fast'n'loose
for the first hundred balls, and only really bears down as he approaches big numbers like 200+.
 
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So...how did you do??

The Renfro said:
As of tomorrow color me a straight pool player.... Watching the Accu-Stats 14.1 invitational up close and personal gave me a new perspective on the game... In my area it's 9-ball 8-ball and 1-pocket.. Growing up even 1-pocket was a foreign game that only a few old guys took up after they couldn't run out anymore.....

The matches this week were the first straight pool matches I have seen and I was surprised at how much I liked the game even tho I know nothing of the nuances or the high level pattern play and decision making.....

As I was riding to the airport with Pat Fleming we were discussing using straight pool as a good indicator of progress... I mentioned that I was thinking about swapping over to 14.1 as my practice game and I was intending on filming it to see how long it took me to get 100... Pat laughed and said I wouldn't get to 100 in my lifetime..... Being the eternal optimist I am thinking I'll get 100 on video within a year.. I should have asked for odds from Pat since a year is a whole lot shorter than the rest of my lifetime... Well lets hope so at least....

I'll use this thread to post progress and post my first 50-60-70-80-90 and 100.... First session will be tomorrow but I am pretty sure I am not going to be posting a vid that fast... I'll be happy to get into the 20s starting out.......

Chris
Click to expand...

Today is now tomorrow....results please...
 
CreeDo said:
One point he made that I found interesting is to try picking up the pace. You can't sit there and agonize
over every ball for a hundred shots in a row, or 200, or 400. it's too draining.

This almost runs a little contrary to some of the comments on here that suggest you must
bear down and stay extra focused and play super tight position and plan carefully.
Click to expand...

It's funny you mention that. Watching the Accu-stats 14.1 Invitational this past weekend I noticed that Danny Harriman was not doing so well until he started to pick up his pace. He was doing exactly what you are saying; agonizing over most shots, double guessing himself, not letting any instinct take over. Once he got into his 5th match he started to speed up and just start running balls and he did better.
 
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