Challenge of Champions dump

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What was the accustats of Lebron for the whole tournament ?
And the people he beat ?
Is it even possible for someone to shoot .800 against champions and win a major tournament ?
Howard Vickery once commented he shot some .900 plus against Buddy Hall and still lost .
What if in 5 matches, LeBron's opponents shot some .700+ combined ? :eek:
Or worse? :eek:
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
negative stalkers are people

John,
Your quote was exactly what I was agreeing to in my post. I think his "followers" enjoy the fact that they can put a chink in the champ's armor. The "followers" I was talking about were constantly negative stalkers. :smile:

Best,
Mike

negative stalkers are people too ;)

Internet-Warrior.jpg
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
What was the accustats of Lebron for the whole tournament ?
And the people he beat ?
Is it even possible for someone to shoot .800 against champions and win a major tournament ?
Howard Vickery once commented he shot some .900 plus against Buddy Hall and still lost .
What if in 5 matches, LeBron's opponents shot some .700+ combined ? :eek:
Or worse? :eek:

Jeeze it was two races to five and one race to nine. Three matches.

Single elimination for 50k not the typical tournament.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
What was the accustats of Lebron for the whole tournament ?
And the people he beat ?
Is it even possible for someone to shoot .800 against champions and win a major tournament ?
Howard Vickery once commented he shot some .900 plus against Buddy Hall and still lost .
What if in 5 matches, LeBron's opponents shot some .700+ combined ? :eek:
Or worse? :eek:

Jeeze it was two races to five and one race to nine. Three matches.

Single elimination for 50k not the typical tournament.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

John,

What was " two races to five and one race to nine. Three matches."?

ONB
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
John,

What was " two races to five and one race to nine. Three matches."?

ONB

Yes there were 8 players single elimination. The total number of matches for the winning player had to be two races to five and one race to nine.

So it's not like they played races to 15 and Lebron beat the "better" players in long race formats back to back.

I have beaten top players in races to five. Hell I put a five pack on Wiseman once. But that was a race to 11, which I lost 11-5.

Point being that Lebron could play. People act like he had no legitimate chance and so it could ONLY be a dump and I don't agree with that given this format.

If it was the race to 21 format just played recently, probably no chance. But two races to five and a race to nine? That's a coin flip for someone Lebron's caliber against another pro player.
 
Yes there were 8 players single elimination. The total number of matches for the winning player had to be two races to five and one race to nine.

So it's not like they played races to 15 and Lebron beat the "better" players in long race formats back to back.

I have beaten top players in races to five. Hell I put a five pack on Wiseman once. But that was a race to 11, which I lost 11-5.

Point being that Lebron could play. People act like he had no legitimate chance and so it could ONLY be a dump and I don't agree with that given this format.

If it was the race to 21 format just played recently, probably no chance. But two races to five and a race to nine? That's a coin flip for someone Lebron's caliber against another pro player.
John,

I had forgotten the last match was a race to 9, that's why I asked.

ONB
 
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Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
Point being that Lebron could play. People act like he had no legitimate chance and so it could ONLY be a dump and I don't agree with that given this format.

Actually no one is saying it is a dump because Lebron was not good enough to win. We are saying it is a dump because the evidence of it being a dump is abundant and clear.

Trying to make up theories as to how Lebron could have won it legitimately is pointless, he did not, there are many people who know this and who have admitted as much.

Notice NOONE is saying that Lebron's US Open win was anything but legit, or any of his other wins BUT for this one. On this instance the evidence of foul play is clear and you have chosen to put blinders on to the simple reality of that.

No matter what you say the reality wont be changed JB, it WAS a dump, no matter what you or CJ want to believe the truth remains.
 
Actually no one is saying it is a dump because Lebron was not good enough to win. We are saying it is a dump because the evidence of it being a dump is abundant and clear.

Trying to make up theories as to how Lebron could have won it legitimately is pointless, he did not, there are many people who know this and who have admitted as much.

Notice NOONE is saying that Lebron's US Open win was anything but legit, or any of his other wins BUT for this one. On this instance the evidence of foul play is clear and you have chosen to put blinders on to the simple reality of that.

No matter what you say the reality wont be changed JB, it WAS a dump, no matter what you or CJ want to believe the truth remains.

Actually, I pointed out in one of the two threads that Mike Lebron beat Nick Varner in the 1988 U.S. Open. Varner was allegedly in on the 1991 COC dump. They had history.

ONB
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Actually no one is saying it is a dump because Lebron was not good enough to win. We are saying it is a dump because the evidence of it being a dump is abundant and clear.

Trying to make up theories as to how Lebron could have won it legitimately is pointless, he did not, there are many people who know this and who have admitted as much.

Notice NOONE is saying that Lebron's US Open win was anything but legit, or any of his other wins BUT for this one. On this instance the evidence of foul play is clear and you have chosen to put blinders on to the simple reality of that.

No matter what you say the reality wont be changed JB, it WAS a dump, no matter what you or CJ want to believe the truth remains.

What evidence?

Hearsay.

The video.

That's all I see so far.

I have not seen one person come forward and confess, not one. No one saying hey I was one of the guys tapped to go make a bet on behalf of a player. No one saying that they were part of the conspiracy.

What I have seen is people saying that they heard it as a dump from someone else and a tournament director saying he thinks it was a dump.

So if you have some proof like a confession please share it. Because you know we have about at least 12 people involved and more if it was only one ticket per person. With 11 tickets and the players not being allowed to bet then that's 17 people potentially involved.

I would assume some of the bets on Lebron were made by folks unaware of any collusion. Which is sad considering that 20:1 with a 200 maximum bet should have attracted a hundred bets even in 91. Three short races?

Jeeze you could put up any past US Open winner today at the COC and make them a 20:1 underdog and there will be $50,000 in bets placed from all over the world.

So again, evidence? Because I don't see David Howard jumping out to a 3:0 lead if he plans to dump the match in a race to five. I don't see Buddy allowing it to get to hill:hill under any circumstances and then when on the hill allowing it to go to him facing down that combo if he planned to dump.

Seems like the craziest and riskiest way in the world to dump if you ask me.
 
What evidence?

So again, evidence? Because I don't see David Howard jumping out to a 3:0 lead if he plans to dump the match in a race to five. I don't see Buddy allowing it to get to hill:hill under any circumstances and then when on the hill allowing it to go to him facing down that combo if he planned to dump.

Seems like the craziest and riskiest way in the world to dump if you ask me.

John,

Allen Hopkins jumped out to a 2-0 lead before losing to Hall in the 1st round. He lost 5-3.

ONB
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
John,

Allen Hopkins jumped out to a 2-0 lead before losing to Hall in the 1st round. He lost 5-3.

ONB

So Allen dumped to Buddy?

My point is that IF you plan to dump you don't run three racks and THEN proceed to dog it on purpose. That's really risky because you have wasted all the opportunities to give games away previously. Now if Lebron leaves hangers on the last couple ball in any of the next five games you are FORCED to win them and thus ship your horse out of the event.

You don't shoot the tough shots in during those three wins. You dog them because no one would think twice that you dogged those shots under that pressure.
 
So Allen dumped to Buddy?Nobody will ever know but I'd say no, based on how good he played and how Hall got very lucky to beat him. I think their match was on the square.

My point is that IF you plan to dump you don't run three racks and THEN proceed to dog it on purpose.That would seem at cross-purposes. That's really risky because you have wasted all the opportunities to give games away previously. Now if Lebron leaves hangers on the last couple ball in any of the next five games you are FORCED to win them and thus ship your horse out of the event.

You don't shoot the tough shots in during those three wins. You dog them because no one would think twice that you dogged those shots under that pressure.

A few well-made points.

ONB
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike Lebron played just as well in short races as Hall, or Howard.....that's a fact.

I know the tournament wasn't a dump......just like I know how many times the ref racked for Earl in the Million Dollar Challenge. ;) :groucho:

Sometimes our memories aren't 100%, that's perfectly ok, after all we're human. Accusing Buddy and Mike of this with no proof is against everything America stands for.

After all we're all innocent until proven guilty......does anyone have any proof of these accusations?

I didn't think so, "those of you without blemish can cast the next stone" ...... and such is life, I'll stay out of this ridiculous "he said, she said" argument.

What's next, saying the founding fathers weren't honest? LoL

You don't need proof from Buddy or Mike saying "yes we dumped" (LeBron did not even need to be in on it), it is perfectly clear form the shots Buddy messed up on and tried to mess up on. Even as a B player I can see by his speed and angles he was trying to leave himself behind a ball a ton of times. After re-watching the set you can see every shot where Buddy tried to hook himself on or scratch. In addition to people that knew the players saying what went on.

As I said in the opening post, I watched that match when it happened. Then again after I read the posts on AZB about it. Watching it again you can see a totally different game going on.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
.no one in their right mind would make a US OPEN CHAMPION (Mike Lebron) a 20/1 DOG

You don't need proof from Buddy or Mike saying "yes we dumped" (LeBron did not even need to be in on it), it is perfectly clear form the shots Buddy messed up on and tried to mess up on. Even as a B player I can see by his speed and angles he was trying to leave himself behind a ball a ton of times. After re-watching the set you can see every shot where Buddy tried to hook himself on or scratch. In addition to people that knew the players saying what went on.

As I said in the opening post, I watched that match when it happened. Then again after I read the posts on AZB about it. Watching it again you can see a totally different game going on.

Perspective is everything.

If you watched it again knowing that Buddy had been jarred it would look like another totally different game.

If you knew the mob had threatened Buddy it would again, look like a totally different game.

If you knew that Buddy had a severe hang-over it would look like a totally different game. (I know from experience how hot those lights can get in that condition)

If you knew that there really wasn't any money bet on the side and the 20/1 was just a story it would look like a totally different game.

The only reason this match is even being watched is because of the 20/1 odds ....and I would like to know who made those odds, they are the ones that "dumped vegas," not Buddy and Mike.....no one in their right mind would make a US OPEN CHAMPION (Mike Lebron) a 20/1 DOG with 8 players playing single elimination races to 7. imho
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So Allen dumped to Buddy?

My point is that IF you plan to dump you don't run three racks and THEN proceed to dog it on purpose. That's really risky because you have wasted all the opportunities to give games away previously. Now if Lebron leaves hangers on the last couple ball in any of the next five games you are FORCED to win them and thus ship your horse out of the event.

You don't shoot the tough shots in during those three wins. You dog them because no one would think twice that you dogged those shots under that pressure.

Allen wasn't in on the dump.
 
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