Challenge of Champions dump

CJ Wiley said:
All these players were very close considering the format, the tables, the polished balls, rails/pockets/cloth and the ESPN atmosphere etc. - it was far from "normal conditions".

Remember, this was 'The Challenge of Champions' - all these men were past Champion players or they would not have been selected to participate in the tournament.

None of them would have been more than 7/1 underdogs in the "real world" of Vegas odds making. Even a child of 7 would have known better than to make one of the Champions 20/1.....this is possibly the 2nd most foolish thing I've ever heard of in pro events.
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Let's forget the house vig, which we all know skew the odds artificially lower. But, are you actually saying that every player in that year's COC had exactly a 12.5% chance of winning? That because of the rails, table, balls, and atmosphere the competition was completely neutralized?

And if that's not what you're saying, then who had the smallest chance of winning? And what do you think were his chances? And similarly, who was the favorite and what do you think were his chances?

And regarding your other "challenge" what do you think your chances are against SVB in a single game of 9b (and how about 10b)? (To make things simple, let's assume you flip for the break).

Thanks,
 
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seven_7days said:
Another peculiar thing no seemed to mention yet ...
Had the cue ball NOT hit the titty of the side pocket, Buddy would over-ran position by about 8-12 inches at least and "below" the 8 ball.
How often do you hear about Buddy being on the "wrong" side of the ball position-wise?

The way he hit the 7, two likeliest things to happen didn't happen
-scratch in the side
-overrun position

Hitting the point of the side was the only way he got perfect shape on the 8.
He's now forced to "dog" it.
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Old Nine Baller said:
Have you ever hit the side pocket tit, almost scratched, and still got perfect position? I know I have and everyone reading this thread probably has. That's not proof of anything.

ONB
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*My point was this. It appears that the "master of cue ball control" nearly did what he INTENDED to do.

If you don't understand what I'm saying after that^,then I'm done explaining.
 
presumably they fired whomever made the 20/1 line on Lebron

When I playing in 'The Challenge of Champions' in 94 they made me a 7/2 underdog.....I'd say they learned a few things in the previous 3 years about booking pool matches......and presumably they fired whomever made the 20/1 line on Lebron.



BJTyler said:
Let's forget the house vig, which we all know skew the odds artificially lower. But, are you actually saying that every player in that year's COC had exactly a 12.5% chance of winning? That because of the rails, table, balls, and atmosphere the competition was completely neutralized?

And if that's not what you're saying, then who had the smallest chance of winning? And what do you think were his chances? And similarly, who was the favorite and what do you think were his chances?

And regarding your other "challenge" what do you think your chances are against SVB in a single game of 9b (and how about 10b)? (To make things simple, let's assume you flip for the break).

Thanks,
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Bbutler said:
Still waiting for someone to explain to me why Buddy didn't miss the 7 instead of the 8.
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Because he figured Mike could NOT dog a 2 ball run out, but a 3 ball run out might have been iffy, and he had no intentions of dogging the nine in front of everyone
 
CJ Wiley said:
When I playing in 'The Challenge of Champions' in 94 they made me a 7/2 underdog.....I'd say they learned a few things in the previous 3 years about booking pool matches......and presumably they fired whomever made the 20/1 line on Lebron.
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If you were a 7:2 "dog", who was the favorite? what were the odds on that individual? And who was the biggest dog and what were the odds on him?

In typical 8 man/team tournaments, having a 20:1 line on the biggest dog is NOT unusual, even in events that draw from the top ranks (champions). It seems like you're suggesting that the conditions of the COC (balls, rails, table, atmosphere) basically created parity across all 8 players.
 
CJ Wiley said:
All these players were very close considering the format, the tables, the polished balls, rails/pockets/cloth and the ESPN atmosphere etc. - it was far from "normal conditions".

Remember, this was 'The Challenge of Champions' - all these men were past Champion players or they would not have been selected to participate in the tournament.

None of them would have been more than 7/1 underdogs in the "real world" of Vegas odds making. Even a child of 7 would have known better than to make one of the Champions 20/1.....this is possibly the 2nd most foolish thing I've ever heard of in pro events.
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So was it a fix or not ?
 
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I heard Oliver Stone and Ben Afleck are fighting for the movie rights of 1991 COC.

Paul Sorbino is slated to play Spanish.
MV5BMTUyNjkyMjk1OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNjE1NjQ1._V1_SX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

Randall Tex Cobb as Buddy Hall.
MV5BMjEzMzc2NzYwN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTI3OTgwMw@@._V1_SX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg
 
PolarBear said:
Will you please explain this? Does it mean Lebron can push out on the nine?
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It means that if Hall and Lebron gambled playing a race to 11, CJ would bet on Lebron under these conditions:

Hall wins if Hall gets to 11 before Lebron gets to 9;
No one wins (it's a tie or "push") if Hall gets to 11 when Lebron has 9; and
Lebron wins if Lebron gets to 10 before Hall gets to 11.
 
No one went to Philadelphia looking to play Mike Lebron for big money.

Yes, those conditions do create parity. The table brand and playing characterictics were not typical to say the least. Sometimes the lesser player can even have an advantage on unfamiliar cloth, rails, polished balls, short races, TV cameras in your line of sight, unfamilar lighting, etc.

And yes, I would say 20/1 is very unusual in a tournament with all bone fide Champion players.....like it or lump it MIKE LEBRON was a Champion by all definitions....gambling and tournaments as well. No one went to Philadelphia looking to play Mike Lebron for big money......even me.



BJTyler said:
If you were a 7:2 "dog", who was the favorite? what were the odds on that individual? And who was the biggest dog and what were the odds on him?

In typical 8 man/team tournaments, having a 20:1 line on the biggest dog is NOT unusual, even in events that draw from the top ranks (champions). It seems like you're suggesting that the conditions of the COC (balls, rails, table, atmosphere) basically created parity across all 8 players.
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Lebron wins if he gets to 10, and ties if he gets to 9.

PolarBear said:
Will you please explain this? Does it mean Lebron can push out on the nine?
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This means Lebron wins if he gets to 10, and ties if he gets to 9. It's not much of a handicap, just enough to make Lebron a slight favorite in many situations.
 
Sometimes the lesser player can even have an advantage on unfamiliar cloth, rails, polished balls, short races, TV cameras in your line of sight, unfamilar lighting, etc.
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CJ, all along you have been reiterating these points. Will anything will change if you say them one more time.

As if either of these 2 players or any of the 8, haven't played under any of these conditions previously. Both players, not just one are playing under the exact same conditions.

You're acting as if this is something brand new to any of them. Hardly.

You should check your Family Tree as I am almost certain that there is a Barton Branch hiding in there.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
CJ, all along you have been reiterating these points. Will anything will change if you say them one more time.

As if either of these 2 players or any of the 8, haven't played under any of these conditions previously. Both players, not just one are playing under the exact same conditions.

You're acting as if this is something brand new to any of them. Hardly.

You should check your Family Tree as I am almost certain that there is a Barton Branch hiding in there.
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It has taken me a long time but I am just getting to understand your humor. You are a pretty funny man.
 
His style of comedy isn't too hard come up with. Here's an example.
Blue Hog ridr said:
CJ, all along you have been reiterating these points. Will anything will change if you say them one more time.

As if either of these 2 players or any of the 8, haven't played under any of these conditions previously. Both players, not just one are playing under the exact same conditions.

You're acting as if this is something brand new to any of them. Hardly.

You should check your Family Tree as I am almost certain that there is a Barton Branch hiding in there.
Click to expand...

BHR, I checked your family tree and it turned out to be a cactus. Everyone on it was a *****.
 
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