Changing the Rules in the Middle of a Tourney..

T

Teddydog

Banned
I have a real problem with the way the semi-finals and finals of the Ultimate 10-Ball Championship was held.. After not having a shot clock throughout the entire tournament, one was instilled for the finals, and loser's brackett finals of the men's tournament.. How can this be allowed to happen?..

And let's not forget to mention, this change led to a big advantage for Mike Deschaine, and was detremental to the more methodical Jeremy Jones.. One has a hard time not thinking that was the purpose of the change, all along..
 
while probably not the ideal of situations, you need to try and look at it from the promoters standpoint too. If you get down to the semis and finals and it's 9:00 already and you have 2 slow players, and a extended race, they might take 3 or more hours to play. Then you have another 2 slow players to play the final, which is a even longer race.

You can't have them playing the finals at midnight, maybe not getting over until 3am or so. Think of how many people there at the venue, that have to go to work or drive back somewhere... they're not going to be able to stay. Think of all the viewers on the stream... Same thing, they're not going to be able to stay up to see who won.

Everyone has to make sure things move along, or all that money you spent, might go down the drain, all because of slow players.

Just a idea to think about.:)
 
Finals at ultimate 10-ball

It had always been known that the semi and final matches were to be extended races. So the length cannot be an issue.

They did use a shot clock on the finals. To suggest that this was done to give one of the players an advantage is, in my opinion, out of line. I did wonder about the clock- but to suggest it was done to favor one player over the other is just over the top.

Why would the promoter care one way or the other who won?
Why would you suggest that they would?

Mark griffin
 
i may be wrong but i thought i heard the commentators say the shot clock could be brought out at any point if the refs thought there was deliberate slow play. i will say i did not watch much of the event so i thought i heard this, again i may be wrong.
 
They changed it MID MATCH with Dechaine and Klatt. And Klatt was by no means shooting slow. He ran the balls at a quick pace when he had open shots, he spent some time thinking on safeties and tricky opening shots abit but on those shots you are supposed to think before you shoot on those shots. Neither Klatt or Dechaine were shooting slow at all when they made the change, and it VERY clearly bugged Klatt before he even broke the rack following the change as he asked "when" the 15 second call would be made to make sure it would not be in his backstroke. He was then told if he was down on the shot he would get no 15 second warning, and if time ran out it would simply be a sudden foul with no warning. Great rule director....
 
jrt30004 said:
i may be wrong but i thought i heard the commentators say the shot clock could be brought out at any point if the refs thought there was deliberate slow play. i will say i did not watch much of the event so i thought i heard this, again i may be wrong.
Click to expand...

I thought they both played slow. Players of their caliber can easily think of 2 or 3 different options to a problem and pick the best one and just do it. Walking around the table 4 times and getting off the shot 12 times, like I saw....no wonder the shot clock was brought in. Whats with stroking the cue up into thin air do as you look at the shot? Does that warm the shaft up or something? I'm not looking for a theatrical performance, so just start shooting.
 
That's small potatoes as far as a a change goes. Darren Appleton Can chalk up his US Open Win directly to rule changes in the final day. Corey and Mika had both worked all week long on the break under rack your own and Mika showed up with only his light break cue the last day knowing he was going to play a cut break. What transpired was purely a travesty....

I would argue that on the streamed tables they should have had the shot clock all week but too many Nits think slow play is actually part of the game too argue that point.... If they instituted the rule noone could have complained about the finals being on the clock... I have said the same thing to Fleming and Barry at every US Open about the TV Table for the last few years...
 
My opinion..

Maybe saying it was done to give an advantage is a little strong, but this is the very nature of the game we are talking about, here.. A big part of the game is about getting your opponent to play at a pace he/she doesn't like.. And doing it with a rule change is kinda uncool..

And to the guy asking about stroking your cue up in the air before u shoot.. That has a lot to do with the visualization of the shot, and pre-shot routine.. Most every pool player does this, whether realizing it, or not..
 
Unless you were in the players meeting before the tournament began you can't be certain they changed the rules in the middle of the event. Many tournaments use a shot clock for the semis or final that aren't present for the earlier matches. The same goes with the match being refereed or all ball fouls. In many events these rules don't apply until the final but it is known in advance that the final will be all balls and a ref will call the match.

As for shot clocks being instituted during a match, I don't know about this event or the Klatt match but I am aware of many events in which the shot clock is introduced to a match if the match doesn't meet certain thresholds such as x number of games completed by the 90 minute mark, etc. So it may have had nothing to do with Klatt in particular (or his opponent) but rather the match for whatever reason was running over the allotted time. And once the match is on the shot clock there are rules to abide by (such as 15 seconds after getting down on a shot or whatever).

Don't know particularly about this event but to come right out and say the rules were changed in the middle of the competition without some documentation to back it up is premature.
 
Buckzapper said:
I thought they both played slow. Players of their caliber can easily think of 2 or 3 different options to a problem and pick the best one and just do it. Walking around the table 4 times and getting off the shot 12 times, like I saw....no wonder the shot clock was brought in. Whats with stroking the cue up into thin air do as you look at the shot? Does that warm the shaft up or something? I'm not looking for a theatrical performance, so just start shooting.
Click to expand...

Let me guess, your a C player?
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Unless you were in the players meeting before the tournament began you can't be certain they changed the rules in the middle of the event. Many tournaments use a shot clock for the semis or final that aren't present for the earlier matches. The same goes with the match being refereed or all ball fouls. In many events these rules don't apply until the final but it is known in advance that the final will be all balls and a ref will call the match.

As for shot clocks being instituted during a match, I don't know about this event or the Klatt match but I am aware of many events in which the shot clock is introduced to a match if the match doesn't meet certain thresholds such as x number of games completed by the 90 minute mark, etc. So it may have had nothing to do with Klatt in particular (or his opponent) but rather the match for whatever reason was running over the allotted time. And once the match is on the shot clock there are rules to abide by (such as 15 seconds after getting down on a shot or whatever).

Don't know particularly about this event but to come right out and say the rules were changed in the middle of the competition without some documentation to back it up is premature.
Click to expand...

Well, I talked to JJ right after the finals, last night, and let's just say he was not pleased.. Which would lead me to believe there was no mention of a shot clock during the player's meeting..
 
Teddydog said:
Well, I talked to JJ right after the finals, last night, and let's just say he was not pleased.. Which would lead me to believe there was no mention of a shot clock during the player's meeting..
Click to expand...

I like Double J and was rooting for him. I've seen him perform well in the Mosconi Cup under a shot clock. Frankly I don't think he's that slow but because of sweating hands he does need to run to the powder and that probably get's him off pace when there is a shot clock. Still, it doesn't surprise me there was a shot clock in the final even though it wasn't used earlier in the event. But I agree, if they just decided last minute that they would institute a shot clock, that's not right.
 
The slowest thing I noticed were the refs, they needed a prep clock for preparing the next rack......literally seemed like minutes between racks.
 
The shot clock for the semi's and final was a travesty. It changed the whole strategy of the game and both JJ and Dechaine suffered for it.
 
5am said:
The shot clock for the semi's and final was a travesty. It changed the whole strategy of the game and both JJ and Dechaine suffered for it.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Klatt, Klatt got screwed both ways, he got slow played to death against JJ and THEN after he went through that they changed the rules and put HIM on the clock against Dechaine. He got kicked in the nuts from both sides on that one.
 
Clocks

Teddydog said:
I have a real problem with the way the semi-finals and finals of the Ultimate 10-Ball Championship was held.. After not having a shot clock throughout the entire tournament, one was instilled for the finals, and loser's brackett finals of the men's tournament.. How can this be allowed to happen?..

And let's not forget to mention, this change led to a big advantage for Mike Deschaine, and was detremental to the more methodical Jeremy Jones.. One has a hard time not thinking that was the purpose of the change, all along..
Click to expand...

Not speaking of ultimate 10 ball, but tourneys in general. The people who run the tourney sometimes don't rent a large enough room and hence not enough tables. Many times don't anticipate how long matches could take. And at some point begin to rush people along. We paid our money and should be able to play at our own pace within reason. Use a clock for everyone or nobody! If anything give time to the people in the semis and finals. Rush the beginning of the tourney not the end! The players that have gone the farthest deserve the most consideration. The clock will always help the Tony Dragos and Rodney Morris type players. Two of my fav players btw! Bring the damm clock and make it one minute for everybody, no extensions.
 
I know at one point when JJ and Mike were playing in the finals around the point when it was 9-9 and there seemed to be a little contreversy about Mike double hitting the cueball when he was on the eight but no foul was called. Has anyone rewatched it to see if this really happened?
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
Not speaking of ultimate 10 ball, but tourneys in general. The people who run the tourney sometimes don't rent a large enough room and hence not enough tables. Many times don't anticipate how long matches could take. And at some point begin to rush people along. We paid our money and should be able to play at our own pace within reason. Use a clock for everyone or nobody! If anything give time to the people in the semis and finals. Rush the beginning of the tourney not the end! The players that have gone the farthest deserve the most consideration.
Click to expand...

Spit happens.
 
I will try to answer each specific question to the best of my knowlege in each post.

If someone is just going to bash the event from behind an avatar name, those questions will be left alone.

Badi has invested, infused a conciderable amount of money and time, to host this and last years event in Aruba. His long range plan is to have open events that will be events on the line with pro golf, pro tennis, pro bowling.

Thankyou
Kennan Keffer
Denton, Tx.
 
Teddydog said:
I have a real problem with the way the semi-finals and finals of the Ultimate 10-Ball Championship was held.. After not having a shot clock throughout the entire tournament, one was instilled for the finals, and loser's brackett finals of the men's tournament.. How can this be allowed to happen?..

And let's not forget to mention, this change led to a big advantage for Mike Deschaine, and was detremental to the more methodical Jeremy Jones.. One has a hard time not thinking that was the purpose of the change, all along..
Click to expand...

Howdy ya'll, to clarify. The the matches were set at a 2 hour time limit, all referees from the first match on Friday and the last match that ended about 1:30 am on Monday morning had a stopwatch. Durning the players meeting and before the start of each match the players were to be notified of the 2 hour time limit and that one hour and 1/2 hour time left in match, it was left up the referees discretion when to instute the shot clock for the remander of said match, unless the TDs (Ken Shulman, Zack Ballas) deemed it to be instituted at an earlier time, during a specific match.

Badi has invested, infused a conciderable amount of money and time, to host this and last years event in Aruba. His long range plan is to have open events that will be events on the line with pro golf, pro tennis, pro bowling.

Thankyou
Kennan Keffer
Denton, Tx.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top