At the TAP nationals anyone who’s score in a single match was found to be 1.5 or 2.5 (can’t remember which) stronger than their assigned handicap they were disqualified and that match was an automatic loss. It is cheating plain and simple.
Cheating in the 8 ball league...
- Thread starter jalapus logan
- Start date
At the TAP nationals anyone who’s score in a single match was found to be 1.5 or 2.5 (can’t remember which) stronger than their assigned handicap they were disqualified and that match was an automatic loss. It is cheating plain and simple.
I play APA and sandbagging is rampant. I always play to win. Sometimes the sandbaggers beat you. Just play your game and live with it.
With proper score keeping, you can eliminate some of the effect of sandbagging.
There is a player that does an 8 ball break with an angle off the head ball. He hits the head ball so that the cue ball goes to the side rail and then to the foot rail and hits the rack from the back. This insures that the innings will be high because the balls don't spread to allow a run out.
Every time he did that we marked a defensive shot on the score sheet. It took a year but he finally was kicked from a 5 to a 6 and to a 7. Now he plays to win.
Kim
With proper score keeping, you can eliminate some of the effect of sandbagging.
There is a player that does an 8 ball break with an angle off the head ball. He hits the head ball so that the cue ball goes to the side rail and then to the foot rail and hits the rack from the back. This insures that the innings will be high because the balls don't spread to allow a run out.
Every time he did that we marked a defensive shot on the score sheet. It took a year but he finally was kicked from a 5 to a 6 and to a 7. Now he plays to win.
Kim
One of the main problems with leagues like the APA and some of the other leagues is inherent in the handicap system. Depending on the area a player is from they can have a vastly different skill level as compared to another area in the country.
I'm not saying this is what happened where the OP is concerned but it is a big problem at higher-level tournaments and leads to many people feeling slighted or cheated by better players who have the same handicap as them.
As for the recording with a smart phone thing I highly discourage it. A while back we had someone who did it and the poolroom owner found out. That player and his whole team are banned from the poolroom forever now.
It is highly illegal to video tape someone without their consent and I doubt someone would give consent to that even if they werent cheating. I don't think the person in that situation I just discussed pressed charges but they would have been within their rights to.
I'm not saying this is what happened where the OP is concerned but it is a big problem at higher-level tournaments and leads to many people feeling slighted or cheated by better players who have the same handicap as them.
As for the recording with a smart phone thing I highly discourage it. A while back we had someone who did it and the poolroom owner found out. That player and his whole team are banned from the poolroom forever now.
It is highly illegal to video tape someone without their consent and I doubt someone would give consent to that even if they werent cheating. I don't think the person in that situation I just discussed pressed charges but they would have been within their rights to.
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My experience with the BCA is that there is very little sandbagging.Because the BCAPL regional and national tourneys are not handicapped there is very little reason to sandbag.Also the BCA handicapping system for weekly league play makes it unlikely that anyone would sandbag beyond the first week or 2 of play.
In our BCA league you can only field a team with 45 or less total skill level points.
So if you have 4-9's and 1-10, you have to bring in a lower ranked player, and somebody has to sit out.
I say the team is what it is, play your best and if somebody has to sit out oh well, it just means that we are too good...:smile:
It is annoying to see teams dominate a league because they are notorious sandbaggers.
Enough to make me not want to play league, but I'm hanging in there for the team.
My team couldn't make it without me, you can't leave those guys alone for minute.
Kind of like my Dachshunds...:smile:
Good grief Jeff...24,000 posts? You spend FAR too much time here! LOL j/k, my friend. FTR (for those of you who thought Jeff was 'endorsing sandbagging), cheffjeff is one of the good guys, who does not cheat to win, at any time.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Yup, you too, Scott, can get a post count that high if you spent as much time in that black hole -- NPR -- as Jeff does.
All you have to do is enter the event horizon of this black hole, and it's inescapable. If you *do* manage to break free, you'll find that your post count has incremented exponentially when you come back to reality. Unfortunately, there are some still lost "in there," and haven't figured out how to break free. Poor souls.
-Sean
Quite the opposite, actually...
In the majority of states, videotaping someone without thier consent is perfectly legal. The caveat to this, is that someone that KNOWS that the conversation is being videotaped (the person doing the videotaping or otherwise) needs to be present.
The person recording with thier phone would meet those requirements...
I was unaware that the BCAPL sanctioned that type of league,kinda like the BCA meets APA.In my area the BCA play has been dumbed down just a bit but its still good competitive pool (league).
JMO that since the split the some of the BCA LOs have been trying to orient their league more for the beginning or casual player.They likely see the big profits that APA LOs make and want a share of that.
Another example of cheating is----
Being ranked a 7 which is the highest in eight ball, and shooting at a skill level 5 for three years and never going down. No one goes to the Nationals or Rally in the Valley and loses on purpose playing singles.
Operators can change handicaps even though the rules say they can't.
Funny how you can say they are on the bubble of going up or down.
Yes, this is cheating...but some people call it politics.
I should of been flagged many times for shooting way under my handicap.:smile:
Another example of cheating is----
Being ranked a 7 which is the highest in eight ball, and shooting at a skill level 5 for three years and never going down. No one goes to the Nationals or Rally in the Valley and loses on purpose playing singles.
Operators can change handicaps even though the rules say they can't.
Funny how you can say they are on the bubble of going up or down.
Yes, this is cheating...but some people call it politics.
I should of been flagged many times for shooting way under my handicap.:smile:
It’s ok to cheat because I have been cheated and everybody cheats that is so old and lame I can’t even believe it’s still prevalent.
Well I'm not sure where you live but in my state it is definitely illegal to video tape someone without their consent and I believe it is illegal to videotape someone without consent in most other states as well.
It is legal to video tape a public place with people in it. It is illegal to do so of one particular person as it is considered an invasion of privacy and is considered a tort of civil wrong. It also opens up the person doing the video taping and the business owner (if they knew it happend or were present when it happened) to lawsuits.
You may be confused as to something however. You are allowed to videotape someone in a public place where they have no adequate right to privacy. There is a pretty gray area concerning this however and if someone were to use it as proof against them in pool the case could very easily be made in a lawsuit against the league itself (if their handicap was raised because of the tape) as well as the poolroom owner and the person doing the taping.
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There are many different strategies when playing 8 ball. Playing safe when you have a duck...is this cheating since you missed on purpose?
Missing a ball on purpose to play safe...is it cheating?
Missing on purpose to try and let the opponent rearrange the balls or break out your tied up balls...is this cheating?
Is it cheating to play a two way shot?
Yes, this is strategy. Or...is this cheating?
You can spin it any way you want. So playing a strategy is cheating?
I used to teach people a long time ago in leagues. I used to tell people--if you are going to run more than three balls in eight ball, you better run out.
Or...make three balls then miss or play safe. I don't think this is cheating.
There are many different strategies when playing 8 ball. Playing safe when you have a duck...is this cheating since you missed on purpose?
Missing a ball on purpose to play safe...is it cheating?
Missing on purpose to try and let the opponent rearrange the balls or break out your tied up balls...is this cheating?
Is it cheating to play a two way shot?
Yes, this is strategy. Or...is this cheating?
You can spin it any way you want. So playing a strategy is cheating?
I used to teach people a long time ago in leagues. I used to tell people--if you are going to run more than three balls in eight ball, you better run out.
Or...make three balls then miss or play safe. I don't think this is cheating.
Running three balls then playing safe is not cheating. The scorekeeper not marking it as defensive is the only problem.
Two way shots are fine, too, so long as you're trying to make the ball, and if you don't leaving your opponent bad.
Sandbagging is intentionally missing in a manner that people don't see it as defensive shooting, to be marked as such. You know this, I am sure...
I guess that every pool room (and every other place) would need to have their surveillance system taken out. Oh, and don't forget about the ATM cameras, the intersection traffic cameras, and, in our area, the speeding cameras....
As for sandbagging, I have never been able to understand how a skill level 7 player can get a big thrill out of beating a legitimate skill level 3-4 player by sandbagging to bring his skill level down. What a big man for doing that!!
Joe
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Just to show that it IS still prevalent and is perhaps systemic in our culture:
http://www.examiner.com/article/gold-medal-swimmer-admits-cheating-for-2012-olympics-title
Best quotes:
"If you're not doing it, you're falling behind. It's not obviously — shall we say — the moral thing to do, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my personal performance and four years of hard work for someone that is willing to do it and get away with it.
"It's got to the sort of point where if you're not doing it you’re falling behind or your giving yourself a disadvantage so everyone's pushing the rules and pushing the boundaries, so if you’re not doing it, you're not trying hard enough."
Actually it seems to be totally legal to video tape someone if they are in a public setting without a "reasonable expectation of privacy". I would say there is no expectation of privacy at a pool match (except for when you go to the bathroom or something).
KMRUNOUT
Take 'em out! Big Brother's watchful eye scares me!
Well, you guys can think what you want and google all you want to but the fact is that it is a grey area and no business owner is going to want to be exposed to the cost and money involved. As for many places having cameras look around and I guarantee that you will see a sign saying that the cameras are there. It is not being done without your knowing of it. That is implied consent; by going into said establishment you are consenting to being video taped.