CJ Wiley Runs 29 balls in 1P using TOI
- Thread starter One Pocket John
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The "FatBoy Pockets" are smaller, but not by too much. Anyone that played in my pool room, CJ's Billiard Palace will attest to how tight the tables were. This one was one of the tightest ones there and I moved it to my house because of sentimental reasons (Earl Strickland running the 11 Racks in a Row for the Million Dollar Challenge).
Anyway, I"m not going to "split hairs" over pocket size, I've played on my share of tables and I know this one is "tighter than a clam with lockjaw"....is that a general enough size? :groucho:
running 15 & out is impressive on any pockets. But those are nearly 4.5" pockets. A ball is 2 1/4", so two of them are 4.5" and both balls are at the points.. Pockets are measured point to point. Just sayin.
Either way, it's impressive.
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Actually that's not worth a crap when the pockets are smaller than 4 1/2"....right....?
But unlike Greg I know how to use a straight edge rule....lol:wink:
Measuring between the balls is not accurate unless there is a gap.
Wrong....next topic.
I don't think we really disagree... you don't like broadcasters saying "they are playing on 4 inch pockets!" because it's misleading.
Equally, you can't say "They are playing on 4.5 inch pockets!" because that's also misleading.
A single measurement in inches, REGARDLESS of how you do it, is not enough to tell people how tight the pockets are. It only tells half the story.
Personally I like that formula you mentioned. We should stop talking about inches and start using that formula when describing pockets.
It looks to me like CJ's pockets are:
(4.5 * 4) / 1.75 = 10.28
That's a tough pocket. If we had simply described it as a 4.5" pocket (like the famous diamond pockets) people would be deceived into thinking
this played like a standard diamond when it's actually much tougher.
cueporn
Banned
So what is it then?
This place is becoming a nit factory. The guy makes 15 and out look like child's play and the only responses are about pocket size and film editing. CJ thanks for posting it, and for putting up with the idiocy.
You need to chose different words my friend cause I've never called anyone Liars.
The nitpicking list for you.
1.cte improves your stroke.
2..cte center pocket system but yet a guy can do the same thing on both shots when there lying exactly the same way but 67 miles apart.
3.how can having your head in the rite position(good start though) do anything for you if you dont no how to address the shot.Lets add a little to whats going on.
4.29 balls on a edited video.
Sorry for my view on things but every one of these things can be questioned .
You ever consider anger classes..lol:grin:
Anthony
That's very observant and yes, the lighting would have changed slightly - after a ran the "15" (minus 1) balls I turned them out and went to my office. When Mary realized I hadn't ran the 15 Balls {as I had announced} she went back in and turned them on, probably moving them a bit. I'm pretty sure I unplugged one to plug a CD player so that light probably moved.
We had 3 sets of lights around the circumference of the room for "effect". My light above the table came with the house and needs to be upgraded, but for video it's difficult to use a regular "pool table" light.
I still think that worked out pretty cool and I'm glad to be able to share, it's the first time we've filmed since the 'Touch Of Inside" video. Our next project will start this week and I can "bank" on it.
I just notice things...Sorry i caused a little stir .
I think Im going to try this,probable a great exercise for your one pocket game.
Anthony
I like that Creedo...thanks:wink:
It definitely appears there is a 1 3/4" shelf...which makes it tougher to play.
Again...Very nice shooting by C.J....He's a gentleman and a scholar in my book....
Regardless of the pocket size, if it was twice in a row or where he hit on the cueball.. CJ is a very strong player and has been for many years. I would expect any professional speed player to be able to run 15balls in 1pocket on a soft table. Not first try, but certainly be able to do it. Especially any pro that plays 14.1 or one pocket on the regular.
I don't understand the TOI thing, I use the whole cueball like everyone else. To each his own.
I don't understand the TOI thing, I use the whole cueball like everyone else. To each his own.
Sorry about the hijack on pocket size my friend but I have just gotten tired of so many people shrinking the actual pocket size to make things seem more difficult. Those pockets on your table appear to be very difficult....The pockets on my table have a similar cut although it is a Diamond.
Again....great shooting C.J. and thanks for all of the free advice you give.
BTW...I have ordered and paid for a few videos of yours and they were well worth the price....cheers....!:thumbup2:
in pool we must change the length ourselves using ONE CUE
You're welcome, I hope this gave everyone a clearer idea of how I use the "Touch" of Inside, and how the cue ball reacts after contact. To the untrained eye it will still appear to be a normal outside English shot, but you will notice it retaining a more natural angle off the rail. I strive to use the same cue speed, cue ball target (TOI) and also cue the ball higher (to make it go further) or lower (to "stun" or make it go less distance) instead of tampering with speed.
This is the process to get the "created experience" that all the shots are basically the same. Also, I would suggest moving your back hand forward and back according to the shot as well. If you move your back hand forward and use it as a measurement between you and the cue ball, it will automatically create a shorter bridge which is more compact and more accurate for your "touch" shots.
In golf they provide 14 different length clubs to play the Game, in pool we must change the length ourselves using ONE CUE. This is important and makes the Game easier, and much more predictable to play. 'The Game is the Teacher'
You're welcome, I hope this gave everyone a clearer idea of how I use the "Touch" of Inside, and how the cue ball reacts after contact. To the untrained eye it will still appear to be a normal outside English shot, but you will notice it retaining a more natural angle off the rail. I strive to use the same cue speed, cue ball target (TOI) and also cue the ball higher (to make it go further) or lower (to "stun" or make it go less distance) instead of tampering with speed.
This is the process to get the "created experience" that all the shots are basically the same. Also, I would suggest moving your back hand forward and back according to the shot as well. If you move your back hand forward and use it as a measurement between you and the cue ball, it will automatically create a shorter bridge which is more compact and more accurate for your "touch" shots.
In golf they provide 14 different length clubs to play the Game, in pool we must change the length ourselves using ONE CUE. This is important and makes the Game easier, and much more predictable to play. 'The Game is the Teacher'
These are the original Fatboy rails which I was told were right at four inches. Glen would know exactly what they were.
I watched the video and regardless of the pocket size it was an impressive display.
What this pic dont show is the "Down Angle" of the facing is a 14 degrees and makes the table accept balls lots easier than it looks. We gaffed it like that on purpose when I thought Dip was gonna play. Glen Also changed the angle they open up.
I dont know what the standard is for measuring a pocket, the number of inches 4" or 5" can be deceptive when you play around with the angles of the pocket facings. To be clearer a 4.25" pocket can play easy or difficult by playing with the facings, its just not the size of the opening. this table plays way easier than it looks.
When we learn to connect and align the balls to the table "Transition" occurs
Yes, there's more to the difficulty of pockets that just the measurement of the opening, it's the angle as well. "Size does matter," however, it's a odd thing to be obsessed about.
Anyway, if anyone has any questions, I'm thinking three misunderstandings about the TOI Technique were made clear through this demonstration:
1) TOI does use the whole cue ball if needed. The important factor is always using the inside of the ball as your reference point, instead of center (like many players naturally do). This is how you can adjust for deflection and spin because it automatically aligns you for the 3 Part Pocket system (if calibrated as I suggest in my writings and videos).
2) When using TOI you do not slow roll ball, however, there are times when you need to slow the cue ball down by moving your back hand forward, which shortens your bridge and allows you to still accelerate each shot.
3) TOI is effective playing all pocket billiard games. There's a TIP TECHNIQUE in banking that makes all banks the same as well. The beauty of pool is that the game is perfect geometrically. This isn't just the rectangle, two squares, and the triangles, it's also the spheres of the cue ball and object balls. When we learn to connect and align the balls to the table "Transition" occurs - "Instead of us creating through the Game, the Game begins to create through us". CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, there's more to the difficulty of pockets that just the measurement of the opening, it's the angle as well. "Size does matter," however, it's a odd thing to be obsessed about.
Anyway, if anyone has any questions, I'm thinking three misunderstandings about the TOI Technique were made clear through this demonstration:
1) TOI does use the whole cue ball if needed. The important factor is always using the inside of the ball as your reference point, instead of center (like many players naturally do). This is how you can adjust for deflection and spin because it automatically aligns you for the 3 Part Pocket system (if calibrated as I suggest in my writings and videos).
2) When using TOI you do not slow roll ball, however, there are times when you need to slow the cue ball down by moving your back hand forward, which shortens your bridge and allows you to still accelerate each shot.
3) TOI is effective playing all pocket billiard games. There's a TIP TECHNIQUE in banking that makes all banks the same as well. The beauty of pool is that the game is perfect geometrically. This isn't just the rectangle, two squares, and the triangles, it's also the spheres of the cue ball and object balls. When we learn to connect and align the balls to the table "Transition" occurs - "Instead of us creating through the Game, the Game begins to create through us". CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
I see a lot of questions about TOI, and I also see CJ posting videos, comments and threads to explain what TOI is and what's it not. I think it will help if CJ can plan a podcast in near future and open a thread here were users can post their questions. I think it will help to clarify a lot of doubts/questions.
Yes, there's more to the difficulty of pockets that just the measurement of the opening, it's the angle as well. "Size does matter," however, it's a odd thing to be obsessed about.
Anyway, if anyone has any questions, I'm thinking three misunderstandings about the TOI Technique were made clear through this demonstration:
1) TOI does use the whole cue ball if needed. The important factor is always using the inside of the ball as your reference point, instead of center (like many players naturally do). This is how you can adjust for deflection and spin because it automatically aligns you for the 3 Part Pocket system (if calibrated as I suggest in my writings and videos).
2) When using TOI you do not slow roll ball, however, there are times when you need to slow the cue ball down by moving your back hand forward, which shortens your bridge and allows you to still accelerate each shot.
3) TOI is effective playing all pocket billiard games. There's a TIP TECHNIQUE in banking that makes all banks the same as well. The beauty of pool is that the game is perfect geometrically. This isn't just the rectangle, two squares, and the triangles, it's also the spheres of the cue ball and object balls. When we learn to connect and align the balls to the table "Transition" occurs - "Instead of us creating through the Game, the Game begins to create through us". CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
CJ can you spill the tip technique for banking? a pm would be fine; I plan on buying your banking video when it is out anyway. thanks
CreeDo -- If your "duh" comment was directed at me, I think you are the first person to refer to one of my posts in that manner. If you will re-read my post, you will see that I was telling CJ that a 4 1/2" mouth is pretty much the standard now for the Diamond tables the pros use. I did not say anything else about the pocket specifications for CJ's table.
You are, of course, correct that a pocket's degree of difficulty depends on more than the mouth measurement. It also depends on the size of the shelf and the vertical and horizontal pocket angles (the miters). However, if your specs for CJ's triple-shimmed Gold Crown table are correct (4.5, 4, 1.75), then I believe that your statement that CJ's triple-shimmed Gold Crown table is "actually much tougher" than a standard pro-cut Diamond is inaccurate. The Diamond opening is just as tight at the mouth and at the back of the pocket, and the shelf is just as long.
Now let me say a few words about why any of this pocket-size discussion matters at all in this situation. It has absolutely nothing to do with CJ's accomplishment of running 29 balls in a row on this table. That's super, and it was posted in conjunction with his TOI instruction, so it's a bit unfortunate that the thread has spawned so much pocket-size discussion.
But here's why I chimed in. This, apparently, is the table on which Earl performed his million-dollar magic. That is an historical event. CJ is making a documentary about it that will become part of pool's historical record. CJ has mentioned a number of times how tight the table is. He has used the term "triple-shimmed" a number of times to describe the table. Well, "triple-shimmed" really doesn't mean much in terms of a table's degree of difficulty (how wide was it before shimming? how thick are the shims?). Now, with this video, we have actually gotten a look at this table. And, in the video, CJ says the table has "just a hair over 4" pockets." By conventional standards, that is an incorrect statement, and I think CJ should be aware of that, and not repeat the mistake, when he creates the definitive documentary on Earl's historical feat.
Who dosen't like a filet?
I don't shoot "soft" with TOI, I "stun" the cue ball instead. Slow rolling is not something I recommend and I've always really liked to play those that play that way. TOI is not for the timid, if you like to play slow rolled shots and finesse the cue ball TOI IS NOT FOR YOU.
There are several ways to play this Game, my way is extremely effective playing all games. I have wins over champion players in every game using TOI....again, it's not for everyone,just like filet mignon is not for everyone...."different strokes for different folks".
If TOI seems strange, but somehow alluring, just put it on a shelf and keep it readily available if you want to change how you play someday. Sometimes pool gets boring the same old way, TOI makes it exciting again, at least it has for me and hundreds of students of the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com - thegameistheteacher@gmail.com
I don't doubt that CJ ran this in 2 consecutive attempts but with today's Internet detectives all over it is hard to claim that as this video was obviously shot at 2 different times which CJ agree happened. Also the balls have all moved around from the end of the first rack to when he racks the second rack. Why don't we all agree this was 2 great runs on a quality table with less than buckets by a great player who is trying to build up the game. The game is the teacher and CJ is leading the way.
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