CJ Wiley's Free Introduction to the Touch OF Inside Technique

CJ Wiley said:
I personally believe so, and I"m as guilty as the next guy. When I came back after not playing for years I did the same thing and it was frustrating. I set out to figure out what was wrong and had to put my Game back together like a jig saw puzzle. This is when I discovered my "missing piece," it was the "Touch" OF Inside. But there's more to it than this....there's a few other "keys to the lock."

When I introduce students to the TOI Technique they have immediate positive results because, as I mentioned above that's where the cue ball is actually aligned to the object ball.

I'm not sure why we naturally align to the outside, it's just "one of those things," the important factor is simply aligning to the TOI Technique. Then, and only then are we free to understand the next level (of TOI), that's why it must be experienced, not conceptualized. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

Hey CJ.

I think that right handed players favor the right side of the QB and left handed players favor the left side of the QB.

So, with this in mind if a right handed player is cutting a ball to the left he would have better results than a left handed player. The left handed player would have better results cutting a ball to the right.

In either case using a TOI would benefit both players to hit the QB more to the center of the vertical axis. Each player will have to experiment to find out exactly how much TOI they will need for the correction.

I never have hit the center of the QB, I dont have the test equipment to show me exactly where the center is. I have estimated that it is approximately 1/16" wide (due to elasticity) at the center axis.......I could be wrong. :smile:

Man, I'll be glad when you release the TOI video. It will help to put a few things to bed.

Later

John
 
the TOI Technique is something that was figured out to correct our natural tendency

One Pocket John said:
Hey CJ.

I think that right handed players favor the right side of the QB and left handed players favor the left side of the QB.

So, with this in mind if a right handed player is cutting a ball to the left he would have better results than a left handed player. The left handed player would have better results cutting a ball to the right.

In either case using a TOI would benefit both players to hit the QB more to the center of the vertical axis. Each player will have to experiment to find out exactly how much TOI they will need for the correction.

I never have hit the center of the QB, I dont have the test equipment to show me exactly where the center is. I have estimated that it is approximately 1/16" wide (due to elasticity) at the center axis.......I could be wrong. :smile:

Man, I'll be glad when you release the TOI video. It will help to put a few things to bed.

Later

John
Click to expand...

Yes, our eyes naturally go towards the outside of the cue ball. Someone finally got that right earlier. I was counting the days. ;)

You're right, John, the TOI Technique is something that was figured out to correct our natural tendency to approach the Game inaccurately. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
chrome said:
This is what i mean. What people perceive as ccb, is actually a touch outside of the vertical axis of the cb. Not many people actually know where ccb is on the cue ball. They will align with touch of outside mistakenly thinking they are at ccb. Do you think your TOI is actually bringing their alignment back inside and on the true ccb alignment?

I am just passing through english :) keep up your good posts!
Click to expand...

chrome,

That is just a re-statement. What makes you say that or what are you basing that on?

I might agree that many do not probably hit the center for various reasons. But I would certainly think that nearly everyone that does not have some sort of eye problem could differentiate the exact top of a ball without being persuaded by something to always mistake the 'outside' of the ball to be the center.

Thanks for the encouragement.

What movie is it where they keep saying, "Who are you?"

Best Wishes to You &
 
Last edited:
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, our eyes naturally go towards the outside of the cue ball. Someone finally got that right earlier. I was counting the days. ;)

You're right, John, the TOI Technique is something that was figured out to correct our natural tendency to approach the Game inaccurately. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I just thought i would give you something to think about and most on here won’t get it anyway and i won’t be able to discuss it with you :p At least you got a new angle to push the TOI technique ;) your quite the opportunist lol
 
chrome said:
I just thought i would give you something to think about and most on here won’t get it anyway and i won’t be able to discuss it with you :p At least you got a new angle to push the TOI technique ;) your quite the opportunist lol
Click to expand...

chrome

You don't capitalize 'i' like bbb, Larry.

I guess that could be a coincidence.

Best Wishes to You, whoever You are &
 
Hi CJ,

Not that China's your target market but I should let you know that I can't access your site from China. Maybe with VPN, but mine just expired so I can't access anytime soon...sad..

Jive
 
The key to advancement is understanding we're naturally "wired" "bassackwards"

chrome said:
I just thought i would give you something to think about and most on here won’t get it anyway and i won’t be able to discuss it with you :p At least you got a new angle to push the TOI technique ;) your quite the opportunist lol
Click to expand...

It appears that way, however, I've mentioned this at times back when it was first being discussed. No matter how much I use TOI and how much it works I still have to remind myself to not naturally favor the outside of the cue ball. The thing I do not know is why?

It appears to me like everyone does it, but I resist making that claim. I've learned to "never say never," especially on this Forum, it makes too many "critics" feel all funny inside. ;) I do agree and appreciate your observation, you are certainly right in my opinion.

We would guess you're an accomplished player to understand this principle. The key to advancement is understanding we're naturally "wired" to do things "bassackwards". Once we overcome natural tenancies we're well on our way to leading a life of accomplishment, or so it seems.

It just amazes me how resistant we humans are to change, you would think if we know for sure something is better we would do it. As you probably know this is not usually the case, and this applies to life in general, not just pool. 'Life is the Teacher'
 
Last edited:
When is the full video going to be available? I went to the website thinking it was going to be ready by now but I couldnt find it. I guess not yet?
 
I have tried TOI for the past couple of days on my home table and want to know what you think of my "experience" so far.

I, like many, learned to throw balls using outside, thinking it helps open the angle, which it does. However, one effect is that it also transfers the opposite spin to the object ball. When cutting a shot down the rail, that opposite spin makes the object ball react with essentially running english, and if you don't cut the ball straight into the pocket, but hit the rail on the way, it often times results in a missed shot. When you use TOI, the opposite happens. Since you are spinning the cueball slightly away from the pocket, it results in transfer of spin toward the pocket if you miss the cut, and the object ball will not rebound off the cushion to the degree that one struck with outside does. This is particularly true when shot speed is not hard. If you undercut the shot slightly and the object ball rebounds into the jaws of the pocket, it will go in (and it by nature of the spin, rebounds into the jaws more often - you are effectively making the pocket "bigger"). Done the same way with outside, you may rattle the pocket.

Also, with regard to position play and the cueball "easing" to the position, my take is that because the spin is so slight, the aiming point on the object ball is not much different, and the offset between the TOI aiming point/line results in basically the same deflection off the object ball upon contact. Essentially, the difference in the cut is negated by the spin resulting in the same shot line (object ball) and deflection line off the object ball, but the inside helps control the cueball off the rail after contact.

Does this make sense to you?
 
cuenut said:
I have tried TOI for the past couple of days on my home table and want to know what you think of my "experience" so far.

I, like many, learned to throw balls using outside, thinking it helps open the angle, which it does. However, one effect is that it also transfers the opposite spin to the object ball. When cutting a shot down the rail, that opposite spin makes the object ball react with essentially running english, and if you don't cut the ball straight into the pocket, but hit the rail on the way, it often times results in a missed shot. When you use TOI, the opposite happens. Since you are spinning the cueball slightly away from the pocket, it results in transfer of spin toward the pocket if you miss the cut, and the object ball will not rebound off the cushion to the degree that one struck with outside does. This is particularly true when shot speed is not hard. If you undercut the shot slightly and the object ball rebounds into the jaws of the pocket, it will go in (and it by nature of the spin, rebounds into the jaws more often - you are effectively making the pocket "bigger"). Done the same way with outside, you may rattle the pocket.

Also, with regard to position play and the cueball "easing" to the position, my take is that because the spin is so slight, the aiming point on the object ball is not much different, and the offset between the TOI aiming point/line results in basically the same deflection off the object ball upon contact. Essentially, the difference in the cut is negated by the spin resulting in the same shot line (object ball) and deflection line off the object ball, but the inside helps control the cueball off the rail after contact.

Does this make sense to you?
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert with TOI but do have well over a hundred hours of practice using it.

Its funny, you go thru your pool career using QB spin and very seldom use the center axis of the QB for positioning. TOI is a game changer since CJ introduced it a couple of months ago. Learning to play position using only the center axis of the QB has been a challenge. More attention is now being used to play position off the OB tangent line using TOI.

I have started paying closer attention to how the pro's play (YouTube) and have noticed that they are not spinning the crap out of the QB for position. True they are playing the angles to the next shot but they are using way less spin than I would (B player).

The thickness of the hit of the hit on the OB is also very important, the fuller the hit the less influence TOI will have with the QB (TOI will be cancelled out). The thinner the hit on the OB the more influence TOI will have on the QB when rebounding off a rail.

As stated above, rail shots are now a thing of beauty for me.

I play 1P only. TOI does have its place with me when playing. I use it whenever I can and always look for the opportunity.

Nice report :smile:

John
 
one of the few that actually knew and commented, with that "Billy Johnson Chuckle"

cuenut said:
I have tried TOI for the past couple of days on my home table and want to know what you think of my "experience" so far.

I, like many, learned to throw balls using outside, thinking it helps open the angle, which it does. However, one effect is that it also transfers the opposite spin to the object ball. When cutting a shot down the rail, that opposite spin makes the object ball react with essentially running english, and if you don't cut the ball straight into the pocket, but hit the rail on the way, it often times results in a missed shot. When you use TOI, the opposite happens. Since you are spinning the cueball slightly away from the pocket, it results in transfer of spin toward the pocket if you miss the cut, and the object ball will not rebound off the cushion to the degree that one struck with outside does. This is particularly true when shot speed is not hard. If you undercut the shot slightly and the object ball rebounds into the jaws of the pocket, it will go in (and it by nature of the spin, rebounds into the jaws more often - you are effectively making the pocket "bigger"). Done the same way with outside, you may rattle the pocket.

Also, with regard to position play and the cueball "easing" to the position, my take is that because the spin is so slight, the aiming point on the object ball is not much different, and the offset between the TOI aiming point/line results in basically the same deflection off the object ball upon contact. Essentially, the difference in the cut is negated by the spin resulting in the same shot line (object ball) and deflection line off the object ball, but the inside helps control the cueball off the rail after contact.

Does this make sense to you?
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes sense and I have heard experiences using the TOI System of play that are similar.

When I aim at the "normal contact spot" on the object ball (Using TOI), I have a tendency to over cut the shot. This may be as a result of the speed I naturally hit the cue ball, which is slightly firmer than average.

I was talking to Allison Fisher yesterday about TOI and she said she had noticed it being used by top pros by how the cue ball comes off the rail. That is one of the few ways I can see it too. With the measles ball you can also see how the cue ball "floats" by the dots not moving the same as "normal" too.

The "Pocket Acceptance Spin" that is transferred to the object ball using the TOI System is one of the key factors in increasing your "margin of error," and this, from my experience is the only way to effectively make the pocket "play" bigger.

Many people have commented on that from watching me play at CJ's years ago on the triple shimmed tables we had. It was a HUGE advantage for me, and of course I "kept that to myself," and Wade Crane was one of the few that actually knew and commented on this "advantage".....with that "Billy Johnson Chuckle" I might add. ;)

311941_502075293151845_1537952804_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
cuenut said:
I have tried TOI for the past couple of days on my home table and want to know what you think of my "experience" so far.

I, like many, learned to throw balls using outside, thinking it helps open the angle, which it does. However, one effect is that it also transfers the opposite spin to the object ball. When cutting a shot down the rail, that opposite spin makes the object ball react with essentially running english, and if you don't cut the ball straight into the pocket, but hit the rail on the way, it often times results in a missed shot. When you use TOI, the opposite happens. Since you are spinning the cueball slightly away from the pocket, it results in transfer of spin toward the pocket if you miss the cut, and the object ball will not rebound off the cushion to the degree that one struck with outside does. This is particularly true when shot speed is not hard. If you undercut the shot slightly and the object ball rebounds into the jaws of the pocket, it will go in (and it by nature of the spin, rebounds into the jaws more often - you are effectively making the pocket "bigger"). Done the same way with outside, you may rattle the pocket.

Also, with regard to position play and the cueball "easing" to the position, my take is that because the spin is so slight, the aiming point on the object ball is not much different, and the offset between the TOI aiming point/line results in basically the same deflection off the object ball upon contact. Essentially, the difference in the cut is negated by the spin resulting in the same shot line (object ball) and deflection line off the object ball, but the inside helps control the cueball off the rail after contact.

Does this make sense to you?
Click to expand...

To me this was what impressed me the most and right away. When I started experimenting with it I saw balls fall on my table that usually rattle, scratched my head and then put 2 and 2 together as you did. A cb with a lil spin transfers more spin to an object ball than a cb with a lot of spin so with a TOI you are grabbing the ob pretty good for those rail shots creating helping spin on ob, not so much for backward cut though but generally when you miss a backward cut you miss a backwards cut, helping spin doesn't help dat much there. I also added a lot off new cb position shots that I'm thrilled about, not everyday I get to learn effective and usefull stuff.
 
CJ

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Have purchased the first 2 DVD's and feel that they are reasonably priced. Using the TOI has really helped and makes a lot of sense through your explanations that it helps correct and minimize our errors and inconsistencies.

Will more than likely get the next one and have a few questions. There was a little overlap on some subjects in the first 2 DVD's. What else will be covered that is new about TOI on the 3rd? Will anything be covered or addressed about straight in shots, combos, using TOI?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
the TOI Video is 90 Minutes of JUST TOI Information, explanations, and demonstrations

TheBook said:
CJ

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Have purchased the first 2 DVD's and feel that they are reasonably priced. Using the TOI has really helped and makes a lot of sense through your explanations that it helps correct and minimize our errors and inconsistencies.

Will more than likely get the next one and have a few questions. There was a little overlap on some subjects in the first 2 DVD's. What else will be covered that is new about TOI on the 3rd? Will anything be covered or addressed about straight in shots, combos, using TOI?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, the TOI Video is 90 Minutes of JUST TOI Information, explanations, and demonstrations....it's as extensive a video as possible without getting to the super advanced techniques (which you won't need for awhile), like you will see Efren, Earl, Johnny or I hit in our matches.

We don't all think of it as "TOI", however we can all execute these shots and understand how the deflection and spin effect shots, especially ones that are hit very firm or spun very quickly.

Thanks, the PPV will be up right after lunch TODAY.....ALOHA.....CJ Wiley

7102215.jpg
 
I know it was referred to in a post somewhere on this forum, that when asked what made him such a dominant player in his prime, Keith McCready responded that he could play reverse english better than anyone in the world. Maybe more than a "touch", but he obviously saw the advantage.
 
What about shots when you have to use outside english ? Do you still use outside with TOI ?
 
Toi dvd

Mr. CJ Wiley,

I tried to post a PM concerning your TOI DVD,b ut your box is full. Go figure!
 
the cue ball is just 6 oz's, so you get more control hitting a "heavier cue ball"

madfox said:
What about shots when you have to use outside english ? Do you still use outside with TOI ?
Click to expand...

Yes, I suggest always using TOI to establish your cue ball target, then, for outside "helping English" you simply pivot back to center cue ball. This, in effect will encourage you to use half the "helping English" because outside spin can get away {like a frightened rabbit} if not careful.
SNTyD5ydW2-10.png


It's like the "hook" in golf and "runs" further because it has added spin. The TOI is a "no spin" shot that creates natural angles off the object ball. You do need to hit the ball firmer than normal with TOI because you're using the full weight of the cue ball (6 oz.s) every time instead of reducing it with spin. Spin is only helpful if it creates more margin of error for you. When you evaluate if this is happening you will "real eyes" it's simply not.

When training someone to use TOI I make a point to remind them of the weight of the cue ball. Any student that thinks he/she needs spin is thinking the cue ball has more weight than it actually does. It's easy to forget the cue ball is just 6 oz's, so you get more feel and control using what's called a "heavier ball". This is done by using a touch of inside.

I could show you in articles where they refer to me as hitting a "heavy ball," which in actuality is the Touch Of Inside, I just didn't divulge the TOI System of play at that time. Once you "real eyes" you rarely need outside spin your game will start to expand with knowledge.

The game (imo) is designed to be played with natural angles. After watching my TOI video I believer everyone will agree this is a very valid point 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top