CLOSE HITS: Do you say "Watch this, it's going to be close"?

KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
It's recently happened twice to me, with almost identical situations and results. Playing 10 ball I went for a carom off the OB to make the 10 ball.

Both times:

- I informed my opponents "watch the hit, it will be close"
- I made the 10
- It was too close for me to call. I thought the OB went on the proper tangent from a good hit.
- After much discussion, the calls (and the cheese) went against me. :mad:

FYI: The rule states if it's too close to call, the ruling goes in the shooter's favor.

The last time this happened to me, a respected player on an adjacent table immediately pronounced "bad hit". :confused:

I'm thinking I won't be advising my opponents that an upcoming shot will be an extremely close call. Although it seems like the noble thing to do, it only invites controversy. It's an opponent's responsibility to watch the table, right?

For the more experienced players here: to advise or not to advise?
 
What I usually do if its close and my opponents not pool stupid I will get him to look at it and ask him ..can u make this on a good hit?" If he says yes then he usually wont even look at it again,but thats how I approach it,
 
In the VNEA league I play in the opponent has to get a refree to watch the hit. And the refree has final ruling. The shooter does not tell the opponent anything, its all on your opponent to ask for the refree or someone to watch the hit. If your opponent does not do this the ruling (VNEA) always favors the shooter. Hope this helps you out.
Jeff
 
I ask the other player to be the judge even though the rules say it is the shooter's call.

I say, "My eyes aren't as good as they used to be, so would you watch this and I'll take your word for it, ok?" That seems to work best. Once in a while, the other guy calls a foul where it obviously wasn't, but that is extremly rare, I've found. Maybe it is a guilt trip thing or something, but usually this request works well.

Kat, whatcha doin' on this side of the fence?

Jeff Livingston
 
Beat that horse

Let it go Koolkat.:confused: You're not responsible to make sure your opponent is paying attention or not. You need not say anything but if you don't warn them then can you make the correct call honestly.:cool:
You may want to invoke the split hit deal.
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
It's recently happened twice to me, with almost identical situations and results. Playing 10 ball I went for a carom off the OB to make the 10 ball.

Both times:

- I informed my opponents "watch the hit, it will be close"
- I made the 10
- It was too close for me to call. I thought the OB went on the proper tangent from a good hit.
- After much discussion, the calls (and the cheese) went against me. :mad:

FYI: The rule states if it's too close to call, the ruling goes in the shooter's favor.

The last time this happened to me, a respected player on an adjacent table immediately pronounced "bad hit". :confused:

I'm thinking I won't be advising my opponents that an upcoming shot will be an extremely close call. Although it seems like the noble thing to do, it only invites controversy. It's an opponent's responsibility to watch the table, right?

For the more experienced players here: to advise or not to advise?
Click to expand...


The problem here is it was not "too close to call." Your opponent was evidently calling it a foul.

When you asked your opponent to watch because it was going to be close, you were, imo, giving your opponent sole authority to judge the hit.

If you either don't trust your opponent's judgment or don't trust his integrity, then you should say, "this is going to be close, maybe we should get someone to watch it," and then accept the judgment of the outside person.
 
Split hit

What is the split hit rule?I never heard of it.THANKs
 
Playing for money, I get someone who is not involved in the game to watch the hit. Really I guess it would depend on how much I trust the guy I'm playing. What I can't stand is the guy who knows it's gonna be tight and he just slam the balls as hard as he can. Of course he didn't ask anyone to watch it and he hit them at a 100 mph, so he just keeps shooting.
 
EZMoney said:
Let it go Koolkat.:confused: You're not responsible to make sure your opponent is paying attention or not. You need not say anything but if you don't warn them then can you make the correct call honestly.:cool:
You may want to invoke the split hit deal.
Click to expand...


Ehhh, that water is under the bridge.

I'm sincerely interested in what other gambling folk do in these instances when you know the hit is going to be extremely close. And in some cases, maybe even too close to call. What is too close - a 4 one-thousands of a second between the cue hitting 2 balls? Seriously!

To answer your question - If I don't warn them, I feel entirely qualified to make an honest call. If it's too close to call, the shot is good. If it was likely a bad hit, I'll personally pick up the cue ball and hand it over.
 
Hank said:
What is the split hit rule?I never heard of it.THANKs
Click to expand...

I've had someone get ready to shoot and call split. I'm like what the hell are you talking about, this is 9 ball there is no damn split, it's either a good hit or it's a foul.
 
forewarned is forearmed

Arguments before the hit are better than those after a hit.What I prefer is: " Do you think I can make this ball with a good hit? You do? Good. Watch the hit." or, "You don't? Well I think it can be done. Let's ask someone else to call it." :yes: You might be following the rules when you say split hits are the shooters but in a lot of places you don't even want to get into a discussion about it.:nono:
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
It's recently happened twice to me, with almost identical situations and results. Playing 10 ball I went for a carom off the OB to make the 10 ball.

Both times:

- I informed my opponents "watch the hit, it will be close"- I made the 10
- It was too close for me to call. I thought the OB went on the proper tangent from a good hit.
- After much discussion, the calls (and the cheese) went against me. :mad:

FYI: The rule states if it's too close to call, the ruling goes in the shooter's favor.

The last time this happened to me, a respected player on an adjacent table immediately pronounced "bad hit". :confused:

I'm thinking I won't be advising my opponents that an upcoming shot will be an extremely close call. Although it seems like the noble thing to do, it only invites controversy. It's an opponent's responsibility to watch the table, right?

For the more experienced players here: to advise or not to advise?
Click to expand...

In a situation like that I look for a safe. That is better than gambling on whether your opponent will rule in your favor.
 
EZMoney...There is NO such thing as a "split hit". It is either good or bad. Referees are taught to be able to tell whether a hit was legal or not, by the direction the other OB and CB travels. I can tell you whether a hit was good or not just by observing the placement of the shot, prior to shooting, and then the position of the balls after the shot...even without seeing the shot! I will be doing a free clinic on learning how to correctly observe and determine a "legal" hit, at the BCAPL Nationals. Anyone who wishes to learn this technique please stop by!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

EZMoney said:
You may want to invoke the split hit deal.
Click to expand...
 
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I don't bother. Why is it a noble thing to do? If they're paying any sort of attention they will make some sort of call. If they're not paying attention, I know I have the integrity to call a bad hit on myself. There's no nobility in either party just watching. The nobility is in making an impartial call, even if you're not gonna like it. It sounds like you or your opponent let wishful thinking cloud their ability to make a correct call.

If it's your opponent, that's not your fault. There's a fair chance you both just called it like you saw it. Sometimes it depends on the viewing angle and other weird stuff.
 
I've found that the vast majority of pool players, especially league players, don't have the first clue in how to determine if a hit is good or bad.
If it's close, and their ball moves at all, they almost always call foul.

That's why now I explain the shot to them in advance and what is going to happen with the object balls and the cueball. Once they see what's going to happen, and then it happens that way, they can't argue about it.
 
Scott Lee said:
EZMoney...There is NO such thing as a "split hit". It is either good or bad. Referees are taught to be able to tell whether a hit was legal or not, by the direction the other OB and CB travels. I can tell you whether a hit was good or not just by observing the placement of the shot, prior to shooting, and then the position of the balls after the shot...even without seeing the shot!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

This is a common argument. I find it's not always true. I remember lots of leagues where guys swear that the end result couldn't have happened unless it's a bad hit, but I saw the hit and know it was good and know how the same result could occur. Sometimes it's just close.

This illustration is NOT perfect for the kind of hit I'm talking about, I just know I've seen situations like this where one ball is hit thin and the other is hit squarely. Two ways it can happen:

1. You microscopically thin it before hitting the 1 more or less flush, and the CB then drifts uphill with its remaining energy.

2. You hit the 1 flush, the cb's remaining energy carries it forward, causing it to barely thin the 2 as it drifts uphill.

You might think "that should be super clear, visually" but it's not, the ball's moving, you hear a "ka-klack" sound, and the 1 moves and 2 almost doesn't. What just happened?

CueTable Help

 
KoolKat9Lives said:
It's recently happened twice to me, with almost identical situations and results. Playing 10 ball I went for a carom off the OB to make the 10 ball.

Both times:

- I informed my opponents "watch the hit, it will be close"
- I made the 10
- It was too close for me to call. I thought the OB went on the proper tangent from a good hit.
- After much discussion, the calls (and the cheese) went against me. :mad:

FYI: The rule states if it's too close to call, the ruling goes in the shooter's favor.

The last time this happened to me, a respected player on an adjacent table immediately pronounced "bad hit". :confused:

I'm thinking I won't be advising my opponents that an upcoming shot will be an extremely close call. Although it seems like the noble thing to do, it only invites controversy. It's an opponent's responsibility to watch the table, right?

For the more experienced players here: to advise or not to advise?
Click to expand...

I have never had a issue that wasnt resolved amicably. When I was at the pool rooms in N. Ca in action 5 days a week(it was small action usually $20/set upto $100/set) If a close hit was there, before I would shoot it, I would call over someone from the rail who my opponent would agree on to call the hit-like they do Jay Helfert at a tournement(everyone is confident he will be fair), we had a few guys that were awalys on the rail and were known to be fair, infact I was one of those guys, I called hits on $2000 action once in Sacramento.

The key is make sure who you call is acceptable to you and your opponent. When I'm in action at my house I have someone to call the hit. Its usually pretty obvious to me, I have a good eye for that, i wish I had the talent to play that I do for calling hits.
 
I ALWAYS ask if they want to get someone to watch the hit.

It avoids all kinds of butt-hurtness.
 
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