Conceding a game.

[Tin Man]

For those who say the opponent was wrong to voice his objection two shots late, understand how this played out. Maybe the opponent considered it a forfeit as soon as it happened, but was concerned about starting a confrontation with a guy who was acting like a rage monkey. Seeing the balls lay open he thought "Heck with it, I don't want to get into a fight with this guy, I'll just run them out." But then he's distracted and it impacts him, and he's irritated that he's in a situation that he shouldn't be in. So he's like "Look, this is ridiculous, when you began to rake the balls after a miss that's a concession."

Legally he lost his right after the first shot he made. Totally agreed. But I understand why it played out this way.

Personally I wouldn't rake the balls in an angry way. If I then did so, I would concede. And if I did so, then didn't concede, and then my opponent voiced any concern about it having been a shark move that impacted them, I would then concede. But I hold myself to a pretty high standard of conduct and try very hard to avoid sharking my opponents deliberately or not.

As a tournament director I could see any decision. Rerack, your opponent lost his right and has to play out, or that your move was a loss and his shots were irrelevant. I don't know the right ruling but whatever the TD decided I would understand. Personally I sympathize with the opponent. Understand OP that he literally was afraid to call the forfeit because he felt bullied by your conduct at the table. I would probably give him the game here.

 

[Chili Palmer]

For those who say the opponent was wrong to voice his objection two shots late, understand how this played out. Maybe the opponent considered it a forfeit as soon as it happened, but was concerned about starting a confrontation with a guy who was acting like a rage monkey. Seeing the balls lay open he thought "Heck with it, I don't want to get into a fight with this guy, I'll just run them out." But then he's distracted and it impacts him, and he's irritated that he's in a situation that he shouldn't be in. So he's like "Look, this is ridiculous, when you began to rake the balls after a miss that's a concession."

Legally he lost his right after the first shot he made. Totally agreed. But I understand why it played out this way.

Personally I wouldn't rake the balls in an angry way. If I then did so, I would concede. And if I did so, then didn't concede, and then my opponent voiced any concern about it having been a shark move that impacted them, I would then concede. But I hold myself to a pretty high standard of conduct and try very hard to avoid sharking my opponents deliberately or not.

As a tournament director I could see any decision. Rerack, your opponent lost his right and has to play out, or that your move was a loss and his shots were irrelevant. I don't know the right ruling but whatever the TD decided I would understand. Personally I sympathize with the opponent. Understand OP that he literally was afraid to call the forfeit because he felt bullied by your conduct at the table. I would probably give him the game here.

I too would’ve conceded the game had I done that but the TD was wrong IMHO and in my experience, you shoot after a foul it’s on you.

 

[trob]

Bad sportsmanship. Should have been escorted off premises.

Stop good lord lol it’s a game. You people crack me up


To me it’s conceding the game but the issue is him shooting 2 shots before you call it. Once he shoots a shot to me that’s like missing a foul and then trying to call it after you already started shooting.

 

[SBC]

Concession

Live and learn

 

[hang-the-9]

The worse part was doing it in a team event. They didn't ask for a ruling until the guy got out of shape and decided to ask then. I just know not to do it again. I've been playing for 40+ years and never came across this situation in any of my matches. 1st time for everything.

This makes it even more an onus on the opponent to do the call of a loss before they shoot again in the game, they were OK to play it till a mistake was made. No storing up fouls till later in the game is the rule that would come into play here, the TD should have told him to continue the game since he started to play again, or start the game anew, doubly so given the argument that the guy was OK with playing the game till he messed up and was looking for another way to win.

 

[alstl]

I was in a ring game where a guy missed and raked the balls "in the heat of the moment". I was up next and I sat in my chair and didn't say a word. Just sat there waiting for them to kick him out of the game. When he unscrewed and left I got out of my chair. After some debate it was agreed to re-rack and break.

 

[ShootingArts]

That's a good point. The standard rule is that a foul must be called before the next shot is taken. It's clear that neither player is familiar with the less common rules. Also, neither one of them thought to ask the TD what to do when the problem came up. I'd be tempted to use your solution and replay the game if I were the TD. I'd also be tempted to explain the applicable rules.

Gotta agree with Bob and hang-the-nine. This was where I was at before reading their replies. When something really oddball happens I favor the rerack and replay the game. My opinion and I think most rules, deliberately hitting the ball with the stick would be seen as a concession, meant to be or not. However, the you snooze you lose rule is a major global rule. I would say the foul was null and void as soon as the opponent shot. You can't have things both ways which is what the opponent attempted to do. He should have gotten an official opinion immediately after the foul but it sounds like he was a little green and didn't know how to handle things. Sometimes something catches somebody off balance too.

Single player I might have waived the concession, in team play I would have claimed it. Either way, the opposing player had the option before he shot unless they were playing under a specific rule set.

Weird things happen sometimes. I was gambling. When my opponent shot the money ball it broke into two large pieces and the larger piece, just over half, was pocketed. My opponent asked now what? I told him I would give him credit for 3/5 of the ball pocketed and pay off accordingly! He didn't disagree and it wasn't until he counted the money that he realized I had paid in full.

Hu

 

[boogieman]

Conceding I’d like Appoligsing it is a sign of weakness.🫠

Apologizing when in the wrong is a sign of strength and character. Conceding is giving up. Not the same thing at all my man.

 

[Renegade_56]

That's a good point. The standard rule is that a foul must be called before the next shot is taken. It's clear that neither player is familiar with the less common rules. Also, neither one of them thought to ask the TD what to do when the problem came up. I'd be tempted to use your solution and replay the game if I were the TD. I'd also be tempted to explain the applicable rules.

The other standard rule is if you scratch on the 8 you lose, so why go by any standard rules in a tournament like that.

 

[MitchAlsup]

So I was in a doubles tournament where if you scratch on the 8 and miss its not a loss unless you pocket the 8. It was also stated cue ball fouls only. I ran down to the 8 and over cut it and scratched, in the heat of the moment I hit one of the opponents balls with my cue, I realized I was wrong in doing so and stopped it, put it back in place and apologized. They had ball in hand with an open table. I was told I conceded the game.

You performed an act of "unsportsman-like conduct". Loss of match with potential for exclusion from tournament.

 

[hang-the-9]

The other standard rule is if you scratch on the 8 you lose, so why go by any standard rules in a tournament like that.

Not if the 8 ball does not also drop, unless it's APA or some league that has that rule. USAPL, BCA leagues as well as the world standard rules don't consider it a loss if you scratch while shooting the 8, unless you make the 8. Early 8 = loss, 8 in wrong pocket = loss, make the 8 and scratch = loss. That's the only losing situations.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Not if the 8 ball does not also drop, unless it's APA or some league that has that rule. ...

Yup. For most people who play by written rules just a scratch when on the 8 is not a loss. But, from the current APA rulebook under when you win the game:

g. Your opponent scratches or knocks the cue ball off the table when playing the 8-ball.​

 

[Renegade_56]

Yup. For most people who play by written rules just a scratch when on the 8 is not a loss. But, from the current APA rulebook under when you win the game:

g. Your opponent scratches or knocks the cue ball off the tabl​

Yup. For most people who play by written rules just a scratch when on the 8 is not a loss. But, from the current APA rulebook under when you win the game:

g. Your opponent scratches or knocks the cue ball off the table when playing the 8-ball.​

Damndest thing, I don't think I ever played 8 ball anywhere, ever, where a scratch on an attempt to make the 8 ball was not an immediate loss of game.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Alway make opponent shoot last easy shoot because someone could drop dead getting down in shot.

Then your winner, and they lost.

 

[MmmSharp]

Damndest thing, I don't think I ever played 8 ball anywhere, ever, where a scratch on an attempt to make the 8 ball was not an immediate loss of game.

It is common in bar leagues. I played in bar leagues etc for years but after moving to bca and finding a good hall i have not even stepped foot in those bars.

I was there for pool, and i once found out how much better/different serious halls are, it was like night and day.

Now those bar league players think i am a snob . But i have converted some.

 

[hang-the-9]

Damndest thing, I don't think I ever played 8 ball anywhere, ever, where a scratch on an attempt to make the 8 ball was not an immediate loss of game.

Most 8 ball is played this way if you run across just random players, or even some leagues, but the official world rule and the rule used in pro events is that it's only a loss if you sink the 8 then scratch/foul. BCA and USAPL leagues both use the world rules for this. Plus the rules where a scratch is a loss you have to actually pocket the cueball while on the 8, if you just foul say miss a kick at it, it's not a loss, but there are some places that count any foul on the 8 as a loss. Really 8 ball rules are a never ending source of fun and frustration for the serious player trying to guess what rules are used, what is a foul, etc... LOL

 

[Jack Fate]

unsportsmanlike conduct if you did that to to me . VNEA trained ref

 

[easy-e]

unsportsmanlike conduct if you did that to to me . VNEA trained ref

Agreed. But how about the follow-up question: If unsportsmanlike conduct wasn't called by the ref or the opponent, then the opponent continued shooting, how would it be handled?

 

[Poolplaya9]

As others have said, deliberately hitting one of your opponents balls would be unsportsmanlike conduct and if there was no referee for the game it would be loss of game. If it was a refereed game the penalty as I recall would be anywhere from loss of game up to expulsion from the event subject to the referee's discretion (the penalty given would generally just be loss of game unless it was somehow especially egregious, like hitting the ball off the table in the direction of others, or the offending party was already on previous behavior warning/s). In addition to the unsportsmanlike conduct, intentionally moving object balls with your cue is considered to be a concession of the game.

However, when a foul of some type has occurred and the opponent does not call it but instead decides to take their turn and shoot, it is universally considered to be an acceptance on their part that no foul occurred, or that they disregarding said foul and waiving the penalty for it, or it could even be that they just missed the foul or didn't know it was a foul but they have the obligation to call the foul before the next shot is taken otherwise it is treated as if the foul never occurred. Because this is what happened in this case, where the foul was not called before the next shot was taken, the foul was null and void as soon as the opponent shot and when the opponent tried to call the foul after they had already shot several times the ruling should have been that the opponent lost their opportunity to call a foul as soon as they chose to shoot and it is as if no foul occurred and the game should proceed to conclusion.

 

[telinoz]

I remember something like this, a player missed a shot, then smashed balls around.... but not just on his table, on about 3 others as well with matches in progress.
His reward.
A lifetime ban from all events run by that organisor.

Definitely a concession in this case.
Sometimes a player keeps going, as they are not sure, want to avoid conflict etc - so not really relevant IMO.

Maybe I missed it in the replies, not even clear what league / rules this game was being played under to read up on it.