Confusion!.......Spin the Cue ball or Center Cue ball MOSTLY?

[Cornerman]

If you can get the cue ball to the next destination with a vertical axis hit, I see no reason to spin it. However, many shots require spin to get to the next destination, so, as BB said, you need to be able to do both-

-dj

Because:

• Sometimes the spin increases the margin of error for the shot, the position, or both
• Reduces the chance for skid
• To avoid scratching when cinching the case ball
• To not have to hit as hard
• To not have to hit so soft

Spin makes this game so much easier than trying to stay in the vertical center. You don't "have to" use spin, but it's actual easier overall. No question about it (even though people will inexplicably question it).

 

[71dewajack]

One thing I've experienced in life is that greatness at something does not make someone a great teacher. I'm not referencing the OP, just making a statement. A friend of mine said he recently took lessons from CJ Wiley and how it opened up many ways at looking and approaching things. He couldn't stop singing his praises. Now this isn't a plug for CJ, a guy I don't know personally, but choose your teachers wisely, at least those you're paying

 

[Bob Jewett]

Because:

• Sometimes the spin increases the margin of error for the shot, the position, or both
• Reduces the chance for skid
• To avoid scratching when cinching the case ball
• To not have to hit as hard
• To not have to hit so soft

Spin makes this game so much easier than trying to stay in the vertical center. You don't "have to" use spin, but it's actual easier overall. No question about it (even though people will inexplicably question it).

Exactly. And how much spin the OP should use depends on the OP's skills.

I think the OP should ask each of his instructors some questions, like what are the exceptions and is the advice going to change as the OP's skills improve. The answers may let the OP know which instructor he should stick with.

Another reason for the OP to use side spin even when it is not needed for the shot or position is so that he will have more experience with it for when he does need it. He needs to know about squirt, swerve and throw. Of course you don't want to put the pot in jeopardy with such side spin practice.

 

[Fatboy]

I think what’s going on here is he wants you to start center ball. Then when your good at that then you can move up to spinning the ball. Both are necessary to be a good player. Spinning is much more complex.

This brings me to another point. All the aiming system guys selling systems too early to players. Many early on players can’t even hit the CB where they want which takes any aiming system and ruins it. They are teaching aiming way too early.

put the CB on the spot and hit it to the end rail, stay down-don’t move the cue, when it bounces back and can hit your tip and stop you can hit the center ball when you can do this every shot then move up to spin and aiming systems. Until then keep practicing center ball.

Bob is a better teacher than me and he knows his stuff real good. I’m not knocking him.

You must first learn to hit the CB where you intend FIRST before any aiming system is worth 2¢. So by learning to hit the CB center ball-pure every time and then learning a aiming system, that system will have real value. Then spin later or as recommended by a good teacher.

one step at a time. Center ball first-that’s my main point. It all starts there. That’s how I was taught before lessons existed.

learning things in proper order will help more than trying to spin first. Center ball first then more later. Sounds like your getting good lessons

good luck
Fatboy

 

[garczar]

I think what’s going on here is he wants you to start center ball. Then when your good at that then you can move up to spinning the ball. Both are necessary to be a good player. Spinning is much more complex.

This brings me to another point. All the aiming system guys selling systems too early to players. Many early on players can’t even hit the CB where they want which takes any aiming system and ruins it. They are teaching aiming way too early.

put the CB on the spot and hit it to the end rail, stay down-don’t move the cue, when it bounces back and can hit your tip and stop you can hit the center ball. Until then keep practicing center ball.

You must first learn to hit the CB where you intend FIRST before any aiming system is worth 2¢. So by learning to his the CB center ball-pure. Then learning a aiming system will have real value. Then spin later.

learning things in proper order will help more than trying to spin first. Center ball first then more later. Sounds like your getting good lessons

good luck
Fatboy

Its like a 30+hdcp golfer trying to hit a 5yd draw when he can't it 100yds straight to save his life. If you can't deliver the cb to a spot 8ft away spinning it is the least of your worries.

 

[Geosnookery]

I took a lesson from Dennis Orcullo and asked him what percentage of his shots he shoots with spin. With a bewildered look on his face he said, "Every shot." I was curious because I use spin on 98% of my shots; it's the way I learned to play. IMO, there's no "right" way. I think whatever works for you and you are more comfortable with. Like others have said, if you take long breaks and use spin, it will take a little more time to get dialed in and find your touch.

This is the same as Ronnie O’Sullivan in snooker. He puts spin on 100% of shots. Even a two foot tap in to get the cueball exactly where he wants it.

I use spin on 85% or so of shots…and almost 100% of shots offered 4 feet or so. It’s just what I learned from an early age. I try to envision shots similar to throwing a rock at a tree or tossing a frisbee. More trigonometry than geometry…subtle curves rather than straight lines.

Excuse some math theory:
One of the issues with centre ball and no spin is the false assumption that centre is the ‘default’ or baseline position. It’s not anymore than anywhere else along a graph. There are an infinite number of cue tip placements and centre is only one of them. It’s similar to when finding a bundle of tangled cords for your electronics. ‘Straight’ is only one possible cord position whereas there are numerous entangled positions. …it would be highly improbable that cords would not end up being tangled as there are hundreds of tangled positions… any of which is equally as likely as ‘straight’.

 

[Fatboy]

I edited my post above

Please reread.

thx Fatboy

there’s some good points I added. Especially for guys wanting to learn. And also made sure to make clear Bob is a better teacher than me and what he says goes.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Its like a 30+hdcp golfer trying to hit a 5yd draw when he can't it 100yds straight to save his life. If you can't deliver the cb to a spot 8ft away spinning it is the least of your worries.

Well, yes, but.... I think it's important even for relative beginners to understand side spin shots and use them when required. There are lots of positions where it is either not possible to continue without side spin or it makes the play much easier.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Another reason why a beginner should be encouraged to hit the ball off center is that most of them either don't or can't. I've had lots of students who have a mortal fear of hitting the cue ball with more than half a tip of spin. I think this is caused by their early experiences when they didn't chalk or didn't know how to chalk -- yes, I'm serious about that -- or had little control over where on the cue ball they hit. The results of attempts to spin the ball were miscues and laughter from their friends. That's tremendous motivation to not spin the ball. Of course this means they can't draw the ball either.

 

[garczar]

Well, yes, but.... I think it's important even for relative beginners to understand side spin shots and use them when required. There are lots of positions where it is either not possible to continue without side spin or it makes the play much easier.

Of course but if they can't hit it straight then learning spin isn't going to help. One then the other.

 

[garczar]

Another reason why a beginner should be encouraged to hit the ball off center is that most of them either don't or can't. I've had lots of students who have a mortal fear of hitting the cue ball with more than half a tip of spin. I think this is caused by their early experiences when they didn't chalk or didn't know how to chalk -- yes, I'm serious about that -- or had little control over where on the cue ball they hit. The results of attempts to spin the ball were miscues and laughter from their friends. That's tremendous motivation to not spin the ball. Of course this means they can't draw the ball either.

Everyone learns differently. I'd rather know i could hit where i'm looking before moving to spin.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Everyone learns differently. I'd rather know i could hit where i'm looking before moving to spin.

Is that how you did learn or did you learn them together?

 

[garczar]

Is that how you did learn or did you learn them together?

When i first started all i did was shoot 3-5ft straight-in shots. When i could stop/follow it i started messin' with sin,errr,spin.

 

[jay helfert]

Interesting discussion here. I'll chime in when I have more time.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Lol, if anyone says that the way to play at a pro level is center ball, they're full of sh.. and should not be trusted.

It's ok to start at center ball if you can't play and keep missing easy shots, it really is. It's easier to diagnose your problems with center ball. Once you can pot balls with center, learning spin should begin. Playing only center is like spotting everyone, and it's a big spot too.

This is not saying that you absolutely must spin the crap out of the ball every shot. It's saying that you most likely, once you play at a half decent level will shoot most shots with at least a trace of spin and be able to shoot all shots with any degree of spin you desire. Pool tables are relatively small, you will likely hit a rail on a large percentage of shots. Sidespin will give you tremendously more control after cushion contact than center. You can use it for speed control, for direction, anything really. Not to mention throwing balls in, transferring spin, holding up the angle....If you're not doing these things, what kind of pool player are you?

 

[middleofnowhere]

Well, yes, but.... I think it's important even for relative beginners to understand side spin shots and use them when required. There are lots of positions where it is either not possible to continue without side spin or it makes the play much easier.

Your key word is "Understand". Like anything pool is applied theory. You can't do something unless you know why you are doing it. What is right in one situation can be wrong in another. You have to learn the difference.

 

[Poolmanis]

Goal should be use proper amount of speed and spin. What the shot on hand demands.
Eventually mastering all kind situtations.
Lower level players often miss balls a lot more when they add sidespin. That is simple because they don´t have knowledge or practice to compensate all effects.
In match situation sidespin should maybe be avoided until practiced it properly to not miss balls too often. In the end if people avoid using sidespin they never learn it...

 

[TommyT]

CTE or Pro One demands that you hit center ball or you will miss. I dabbled in the CTE world for a couple of years when I realized that under pressure sometimes center ball is really hard to hit. I spin it so much now it makes me dizzy and the game has gotten more fun and I believe I’ve improved.

 

[BasementDweller]

I challenge anyone who says there's a pro out there who "stays close to the vertical axis" to post a single video of them running a rack while doing so.

Anyone who has been following the game for a while either knows this isn't true or they have been watching an entirely different game than I have.

 

[BasementDweller]

Also, the beauty of pool is found in the spin. A no english game would be so boring only an idiot could enjoy it. That may be a tad harsh but only a tad. When you think about the time you were initially bitten with the pool bug, if you were like me, it was at least partially due to spinning whitey all over God's green felt.

Spin away brother and enjoy yourself.