Corey Deuel is the new U.S. National Snooker Champion.
- Thread starter CBuck
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I watched some of the stream, and he looked smooth and comfortable, cued the ball nicely. But, there is a world of difference between the play I saw on the stream, including Isaac, and an amateur player in any of the major countries that support snooker; Australia, India, China, Hong Kong, various European countries.
I've played snooker for about 15 years in Australia(although I haven't touched a snooker cue seriously for about 5 of those), and am a century break player in both English billiards and snooker (high break in a match of 128 in snooker). None of the players I saw in the US Open could compete with the top Australian amateurs, and we're at the bottom of the wrung in terms of the major snooker countries.
I'm not being a snooker dick, I have total respect for pool players and the skills and knowledge they bring to the table, but it's a different world on a snooker table, as it is on a pool table. I recently started playing pool after a long lay off from snooker, and I've had to learn a lot of stuff to compete at a high level, but fundamentals are not one of them. That's the biggest difference between snooker players and pool players. I'm not not talking about the timing of the cue, pool players time the ball beautifully, I'm talking rock solid cueing that has been developed over thousands of hours spent on a table as unforgiving as a snooker table.
Corey wouldn't just have to learn tactics and positional play, that would be the easy part. Remember, Corey has been training his cue arm for years, with hundreds of hours spent on pool tables, and his cueing was not good enough maintain a decent potting percentage. He would have to tighten things up considerably.
Not saying it's not possible, but saying someone cues the ball well does not mean their cueing is suitable for a snooker table, or a pool table for that matter. I've had to loosen my arm a bit for the heavier balls on a pool table, and I've had to spend hours working on my break because that element of the game is absent from snooker.
I wish Corey all the best with his endeavors. I would absolutely love him to make a break through and bring the game to a country as large and populous as the US.
I've played snooker for about 15 years in Australia(although I haven't touched a snooker cue seriously for about 5 of those), and am a century break player in both English billiards and snooker (high break in a match of 128 in snooker). None of the players I saw in the US Open could compete with the top Australian amateurs, and we're at the bottom of the wrung in terms of the major snooker countries.
I'm not being a snooker dick, I have total respect for pool players and the skills and knowledge they bring to the table, but it's a different world on a snooker table, as it is on a pool table. I recently started playing pool after a long lay off from snooker, and I've had to learn a lot of stuff to compete at a high level, but fundamentals are not one of them. That's the biggest difference between snooker players and pool players. I'm not not talking about the timing of the cue, pool players time the ball beautifully, I'm talking rock solid cueing that has been developed over thousands of hours spent on a table as unforgiving as a snooker table.
Corey wouldn't just have to learn tactics and positional play, that would be the easy part. Remember, Corey has been training his cue arm for years, with hundreds of hours spent on pool tables, and his cueing was not good enough maintain a decent potting percentage. He would have to tighten things up considerably.
Not saying it's not possible, but saying someone cues the ball well does not mean their cueing is suitable for a snooker table, or a pool table for that matter. I've had to loosen my arm a bit for the heavier balls on a pool table, and I've had to spend hours working on my break because that element of the game is absent from snooker.
I wish Corey all the best with his endeavors. I would absolutely love him to make a break through and bring the game to a country as large and populous as the US.
If Corey wants to learn how to do something in pocket billiards -- bird break, soft break, hard break, 10-ball break, shooting with mechanical bridge, shooting one-handed, et cetera -- Corey has the uncanny abillity to master whatever the endeavor.
I have no doubt in my mind that Corey will do well in snooker. If Corey wants to, he will. That's Corey Deuel!
I have no doubt in my mind that Corey will do well in snooker. If Corey wants to, he will. That's Corey Deuel!
It is nearly impossible for US top pool players to win major snooker tourneys in UK, it is not cuing skill the issue as much as maintaining focus for the long run; Darren A would be 1st one to go after the $ 300k yet he is not even considering it, even though he played the black ball on snooker like table, i would love to hear it from him why he is not attempting snooker or has he and failed, is it his focus deteriorates after few frames or simply gave up, or is it very expensive only rich people can afford it?
It's absolutely cueing, and I don't mean skill. The necessities of your cue action in the two games are different. It's not a matter of more or less skill, just years spent honing your action for what the table and balls demand.
And I believe pool players have the focus. Some of the races to 25 and beyond last for hours, where snooker players usually get a break every 4 frames.
Darren started playing pool in England. Yeah he dabbled in snooker, and his highest break is something like 135? So he's clearly a good player, but even he would have to spend a considerable amount of time on a snooker to be at all competitive.
How many times did he have high breaks? Sure cueing is essential but does not do you good if your aim/focus is not sharp all the time, i am talking like when you just hit balls after say a day off, you seem to have very sharp focus but after hours of playing you start having hard time seeing the magic focus point; IMO shots could be made with some errors in cueing if your focus is sharp. In snooker because balls are smaller the margin of aim is also smaller than pool balls so getting CB to hit OB at exact aim is tough for more than 1/4 ball hit or more than 8' away
Once again, zero chance, unless they took up snooker at age 6! :wink:
I only watched a little bit of the tournament.
Play was mostly about potting balls.
What was missing?
Prolonged safety battles
Fast play - many top snooker players play comfortably at a speed of 14 - 18 seconds per shot. The Snooker Shootout is a 10 minute one frame tournament: 15 second shot clock for the first 5 minutes, 10 seconds for the second 5 minutes.
Playing position to open the rack - by stunning off the blue, or off the black with a variety of stuns or screw shots
Opening the rack off of the baulk colours
Precision positional play - makes long runs possible, breaks open clusters, wins safety battles
I didn't see Corey with a mini-butt for his cue, and presume, since he was using a pool butt, that a mini couldn't be attached.
His technique with the rest wasn't the best but he was potting balls.
So he was handicapped by his equipment and lack of familiarity.
And he has an elbow drop (but only after contacting the cue ball)
As I suggested in a thread I started, now is the time for a North American championship match: Corey vs Alex.
Alex would win.
He grew up in Toronto, where there are probably more snooker tables than in the entire U.S.
And I have heard he got some pointers from another Toronto resident, some guy named Thorburn, World Champion, three times Masters champion, ranked number one.
Play was mostly about potting balls.
What was missing?
Prolonged safety battles
Fast play - many top snooker players play comfortably at a speed of 14 - 18 seconds per shot. The Snooker Shootout is a 10 minute one frame tournament: 15 second shot clock for the first 5 minutes, 10 seconds for the second 5 minutes.
Playing position to open the rack - by stunning off the blue, or off the black with a variety of stuns or screw shots
Opening the rack off of the baulk colours
Precision positional play - makes long runs possible, breaks open clusters, wins safety battles
I didn't see Corey with a mini-butt for his cue, and presume, since he was using a pool butt, that a mini couldn't be attached.
His technique with the rest wasn't the best but he was potting balls.
So he was handicapped by his equipment and lack of familiarity.
And he has an elbow drop (but only after contacting the cue ball)
As I suggested in a thread I started, now is the time for a North American championship match: Corey vs Alex.
Alex would win.
He grew up in Toronto, where there are probably more snooker tables than in the entire U.S.
And I have heard he got some pointers from another Toronto resident, some guy named Thorburn, World Champion, three times Masters champion, ranked number one.
I was being when I said, "I'm not saying it's impossible". I actually agree with you, he has zero chance of making it at pro snooker, even high level amateur play. He will get destroyed at the IBSFs, which is the world amateurs that awards two pro tickets.
This was the high break list from the IBSF UNDER 21s in 2012, BEFORE the round of 32:
Ross Muir 138
Zhao Xintong 127
Boonyarit Keattikun 125
Zhou Yuelong 119
Lu Haotian 117
Zhou Yuelong 115
Zhao Xintong 113
Lu Haotian 111
Boonyarit Keattikun 108
Huang Jiahao 106
Noppon Saengkham 105 (2 times)
Lu Ning 103
Zhou Yuelong 103
Jamie Clarke 101
Noppon Saengkham 100
These are amateurs under the age of 21. Compare that to what just happened in the US Open.
World of difference
There is also an absolute world of difference between the pockets on a club snooker table and the tournament tables the pros play on. Basically the difference between a bucket pool table and a triple shimmed monster.
Again I am not saying it is impossible for a talented cueist to make the transition, but it would take a freak of nature to do it.
I know people who have run a dozen or so 147's and consistently do absolutely nothing in pro tournaments.
The two sports although they have obvious similarities, require different disciplines and skill sets.
There is also an absolute world of difference between the pockets on a club snooker table and the tournament tables the pros play on. Basically the difference between a bucket pool table and a triple shimmed monster.
Again I am not saying it is impossible for a talented cueist to make the transition, but it would take a freak of nature to do it.
I know people who have run a dozen or so 147's and consistently do absolutely nothing in pro tournaments.
The two sports although they have obvious similarities, require different disciplines and skill sets.
Agree
I agree, I think he always needs a challenge and snooker may be the new challenge.
If Corey wants to learn how to do something in pocket billiards -- bird break, soft break, hard break, 10-ball break, shooting with mechanical bridge, shooting one-handed, et cetera -- Corey has the uncanny abillity to master whatever the endeavor.
I have no doubt in my mind that Corey will do well in snooker. If Corey wants to, he will. That's Corey Deuel!
I agree, I think he always needs a challenge and snooker may be the new challenge.
seeing how he just squeaked out of stage one, It is pretty obvious he was 'learning the game' as he went along. He learns real fast and he will probably be 30% improved next time he plays. Ive seen him do brilliant things on and off the table including spotting 'the fix' on a roulette wheel in about 1 minute and cashing in big within 3 rolls seconds later.
We need more Snooker in the United States
Hoping this exposure to snooker will raise some eyebrows for the games sake. Back in the day I was very fortunate to have played a lot of snooker. My love for that game has not wained a bit. Unfortunately finding a table let alone a decent one is not always an easy proposition. Recently played on a 10 footer which is ok but not as great like a 12 Footer which can actually get my heart going. Back in California I left two behind in storage a 12 footer and a 10 footer. I have installed both at home before it was some of my happier moments at home. Truly having long shots and so on. I must admit 9 footers bore me at home a lot of the time.
Truly wish more people in this country followed and loved the game like I do so.
Mary Avina on Snooker Table
Hoping this exposure to snooker will raise some eyebrows for the games sake. Back in the day I was very fortunate to have played a lot of snooker. My love for that game has not wained a bit. Unfortunately finding a table let alone a decent one is not always an easy proposition. Recently played on a 10 footer which is ok but not as great like a 12 Footer which can actually get my heart going. Back in California I left two behind in storage a 12 footer and a 10 footer. I have installed both at home before it was some of my happier moments at home. Truly having long shots and so on. I must admit 9 footers bore me at home a lot of the time.
Truly wish more people in this country followed and loved the game like I do so.
Mary Avina on Snooker Table
I don't agree. Having a table installed in your house is way different than getting properly coached and putting in the time in a snooker environment.
The modern game with coaches and competition is way different now than in Rempe's time.
I doubt that Rempe or the Miz went to England and lived and trained there for year. To me that is what constitutes a real good shot.
I mean at the end of it it's balls and a stick man, balls and a stick, you just line it up and shoot it in
I look at another way, I see Rempe's limited success as proof that with REAL dedication and immersion the pool player could have a pretty good shot at getting high on the ranking list.
I guess we would need to hear from Rempe but I doubt he got a full time coach and learned the game the right way against tough competition in England.
Coaching starts at a early age it's bread into them I highly doubt you could take SVB coach him a yr and then be competitive with Ronnie O
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I don't know much about professional snooker except what I've read on here and I've watched Ronnie O'Sullivan a few times. I've always heard that no American pool player could ever reach the top in one of the snooker countries, primarily Great Britian. I will say, however, that if ANY player would have a chance or could possibly become an elite player, it would be Corey. He is amazing with his ability to learn all aspects of a game and break them down into segments where he can give himself the best chance to win or gain the most advantage over his opponent. He will literally practice certain things for hundreds of hours to find repeatable patterns or situations.
Congrats homey!
Congrats homey!
Congrats Corey! Everyone at OB is very proud of you, nice work.
You guys talk about Corey as if he is still just a young man. Like he's still in his early 20's. He has to be in his mid 30's now. He's actually probably pretty close to the same age as Ronnie O'Sullivan, who is getting close to the end of his career. It's a bit comical to listen to people who think that Corey could actually work on his snooker game for a bit and compete with guys that have been playing it for their entire lives. It is actually disrespectful to those that have put in the thousands of hours of practice on the 12 footers and have proven their ability to play under the pressure of playing in front of millions of viewers.
Now, could Corey have been a great snooker player had he grown up playing that game? Of course he could have.
woulda....coulda....shoulda.
Now, could Corey have been a great snooker player had he grown up playing that game? Of course he could have.
woulda....coulda....shoulda.