Cornbread!

[Fatboy]

He is the only player i have a picture of on my wall in my pool room at home. Also I have his powder bottle he carried for years, thats my absolute favorite piece of pool history I own(its on loan i'd give it back if ever asked, thanks SL). thats how strong he was!!!

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Cornbreads favorite game was One Pocket on a Snooker Table. Per the book. BTW our own Jay Halfert was mention in the book.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I always like to divide the pro players into Three Tiers - Top, Middle and Bottom

In one pocket he was not only a Top Tier player but also a legend. He was considred by the historians/experts as a legendary one pocket player. He is a heavy duty gambler.

In 9 ball game he did play the pro speed and I rate him as Bottom Tier Pro player.

Sorry sir, but you could not be more wrong...Red's skill level, (at all disciplines) was never 'top tier'...True his best game was one pocket on a snooker table, but that was a seldom played game, anywhere but Detroit.. Red was definately a unique, and intimidating personality... But, much like Fat's, he was never a threat to beat any of the top players of his/our, generation..(without weight)...He was a good hustler, and played real solid for the cash... He was also pretty good at matching up, but he loved to play, like many of us do, and often put his stakehorse's money in grave peril ! (fact)...But he was never a 'top tier' player at any game, especially one pocket...Corn is 0 and 3 against me (lifetime, once in '94, it was 1P on a snooker table)..and I do NOT consider myself a world beater !

 

[Nine ... corner]

I saw him play many times in the 70's and 80's in the Detroit area.

I did too. I also was at The McDermott Masters V, in I think it was in '88, which was held at the Troy Hilton in Troy, Michigan and saw Cornbread getting into it with Johnny Archer in one of the practice rooms. The old road dog woofing the new young kid. It was classic.

 

[freddy the beard]

I spent months and months around the Rack in Detroit. To say CornBread wasnt a top-tier player is laughable. (especially when he is denied world-class status playing 1pkt on a snooker table.) The man that said all that, has a thing against players that are loud, outgoing, big-money gamblers and controversial personalities. ie., Fats, Hubert Cokes, Cannonball Chapman, Rod Curry, Artie Bodendorfer, Corn Bread, Mexican Johnny, CJ Wiley, -- me -- and etc., etc., -- or maybe his multitude of those type posts on the forums are somehow coincidental.

Someone ask him the total amount of time he spent at the Rack in Detroit.

Beard

In 1994, the year the above "chronicler" beat CornBread he was in his 70s. If a guy like him could have beat Red playing 1pkt -- on any table -- in the Rack he could have won 50k plus. I would like to put him on a lie-box to find out the grand total of his winnings for his 3 and 0 record. I also beat Red in the Rack -- the difference was he was playing me 9 to 7!

His weakest games were 9-Ball and Straight-pool, and he beat Jimmy Mataya out of about 25k playing Straight-pool -- even.

 

[stevelomako]

Sorry sir, but you could not be more wrong...Red's skill level, (at all disciplines) was never 'top tier'...True his best game was one pocket on a snooker table, but that was a seldom played game, anywhere but Detroit.. Red was definately a unique, and intimidating personality... But, much like Fat's, he was never a threat to beat any of the top players of his/our, generation..(without weight)...He was a good hustler, and played solid for the cash... He was also pretty good at matching up, but he loved to play, and often put his stakehorse money in grave peril ! (fact)...But he was never a 'top tier' player at any game, especially one pocket...Corn is 0 and 3 against me (lifetime, once in '94, it was 1P on a snooker table)..and I do NOT consider myself a world beater !

Huh!

What!

Please!

You don't know Jack Dick.

Wow.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I spent months and months around the Rack in Detroit. To say CornBread wasnt a top-tier player is laughable. (especially when he is denied world-class status playing 1pkt on a snooker table.)<--Have you forgotten this ALREADY ? Quote SJD--"True his best game was one pocket on a snooker table, but that was a seldom played game, anywhere but Detroit" ??? The man that said all that, has a thing against players that are loud, outgoing, big-money gamblers and controversial personalities. ie., Fats, Hubert Cokes, Cannonball Chapman, Rod Curry, Artie Bodendorfer, Corn Bread, Mexican Johnny, CJ Wiley, -- me -- and etc., etc., -- or maybe his multitude of those type posts on the forums are somehow coincidental.

Someone ask him the total amount of time he spent at the Rack in Detroit.

Beard

In 1994, the year the above "chronicler" beat CornBread he was in his 70s. If a guy like him could have beat Red playing 1pkt -- on any table -- in the Rack he could have won 50k plus. I would like to put him on a lie-box to find out the grand total of his winnings for his 3 and 0 record. I also beat Red in the Rack -- the difference was he was playing me 9 to 7!

His weakest games were 9-Ball and Straight-pool, and he beat Jimmy Mataya out of about 25k playing Straight-pool -- even.

If you're going to stalk me, could you please stop putting words in my mouth like you do over on 1P.org...You're about as popular over here, as Artie was !... So QUIT telling lies ! ...Red was exactly 2 and 1/2 years older than me, so how old would that make me WHENEVER we played ?...But of course, you know everything better than me, so go ahead and put me on your "LIE BOX"...You can get 50 to 1, that I will not lie, brag, or exagerate, 1/10th as much as you do !...And about all the guys I NEVER said one word about having a 'Loud, Controversial, denmeanor...You are only right about YOU and Fat's, but Fat's HAD a personality, so I could overlook him !

PS...If Red gave you 9/7, I must have been able to give you 10/6..

LATE EDIT; Better get Mr. POS, and the Whackerr over here to help...We already know, you and Lomako can't get there ! :boring2: :boring2: :boring2:
You guy's are so young, and easily impressed..Next you'll be saying I said Red couldn't play at all. But you'll need to wait a few posts at least..Let the ink dry on the 'paper trail' ! LFAMADO !

 

[kvinbrwr]

So glad to see that the illustrious AZ Billiards Community is able to participate in a thread about one of the true legends of our game without it degrading to name-calling and silly grudge-airing like a Bravo TV Housewives show.

I have no idea who Dick is talking about, Cornbread was the most Alpha person I ever met, pool or otherwise. People would travel the road putting together a stake to come to the Rack and play Red, who would play anything against anybody. His standard ploy was to ask them what they wanted to play for then cut the proposed set in half and double the bet. The most fearless gambler I ever saw in action ever.

As I recall, he gutted Mataya playing straight pool races to 25!

Kevin

 

[SJDinPHX]

So glad to see that the illustrious AZ Billiards Community is able to participate in a thread about one of the true legends of our game without it degrading to name-calling and silly grudge-airing like a Bravo TV Housewives show.

I have no idea who Dick is talking about, Cornbread was the most Alpha person I ever met, pool or otherwise. People would travel the road putting together a stake to come to the Rack and play Red, who would play anything against anybody. His standard ploy was to ask them what they wanted to play for then cut the proposed set in half and double the bet. The most fearless gambler I ever saw in action ever.

As I recall, he gutted Mataya playing straight pool races to 25!

Kevin

Kevin, I know you through Charles Morrison...I know you are a "Premier Cue Dealer..We've chatted a few times on this site, and I've always shown you the respect you deserve...I did NOT know you were also an expert on everything else pool related...For instance, I think those guy's put their bankrolls together to play the big money men at the Rack...Not Red..He was too tough..and yes, he was pure ALPHA....Or maybe you didn't go back far enough to read MY original post ?..Hope you weren't dazzled by the brilliance of the two guy's after my post..."One will steal your eyeball, and the other will tell you you look better without it."...R. Wanderone.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Kevin, I know you through Charles Morrison...I know you are a premier Cue dealer..Weve chatted a few times on this site, and I've always shown you the respect you deserved...I did not know you were an expert on everything else pool related... I think those guy's put their bankrolls together to play the big money men at the rack..Not Red..He was too tough..Or maybe you didn't go back far enough to read MY original post ?..Hope you weren't dazzled by the brilliance of the two guy's after my post..."One will steal your eyeball, and the other will tell you you look better without it."...R. Wanderone.

I don't know what an expert I am. I have seen Red at The Capital Cue Club and later The Rack some 40 years ago and my opinion of him as a man, player or gambler doesn't change because you didn't like him, or whatever.

I know you are friend of Charles and I try to show you respect because of it. Your feud with Freddie makes you look small and unhappy. I sincerely hope you are neither.

Kevin

 

[SJDinPHX]

I don't know what an expert I am. I have seen Red at The Capital Cue Club and later The Rack some 40 years ago and my opinion of him as a man, player or gambler doesn't change because you didn't like him, or whatever.

I know you are friend of Charles and I try to show you respect because of it. Your feud with Freddie makes you look small and unhappy. I sincerely hope you are neither.

Kevin

Sorry you feel that way Kevin..I don't recall my ever saying I didn't like Red.
That is one of my biggest sore spots with Fred, He tries to put words in people's mouth. If you have been following our feud over there, I shall also have to question your knowledge of people in general...He has been about as 'small' as a person can be...but If thats your take on our beef,..then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Dick

 

[kvinbrwr]

Sorry you feel that way Kevin..I don't recall my ever saying I didn't like Red.
That is one of my biggest sore spots with Fred, He tries to put words in people's mouth. If you have been following our feud over there, I shall also have to question your knowledge of people in general...He has been about as 'small' as a person can be...but If thats your take on our beef,..then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Dick

Dick

I haven't been following your feud over there, and I wish I wasn't following it here. Everybody that is involved in a "Housewives Epic Grudge Fest" claims the other "started it" or is "worse than they are", finger-pointing is all these "battles" are about.

Your memory of Cornbread is incorrect. I saw him play in the 70s and he was a complete steamroller that feared no man. He was for sure a top-tier player and maybe at that time, the most feared pool gambler in the world. Congrats if you could beat him when he was 70. I can beat him now.

Kevin

 

[alstl]

A question like that always depends on who is answering it. I was watching the stream of the SBE and a lot of people in the chat room were saying Earl was washed up and couldn't play.

Then a week or two later Earl beat Van Boening in race to 25 on a tough table. So can Earl play or is he washed up? The people saying he is washed up will still say it.

So, how did Cornbread play? He played good enough that everybody knows who he was. After that it's all just opinion.

 

[tommyceilings]

Billy lived the motto "I don't play in tournaments, but I'll try the winner some"

I played him 9ball, and he wasn't flashy, just got basic position. He made you want to keep playing thinking that his shape wasn't great and he was getting a lot of rolls. Needless to say I left lighter in the pocket.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Kevin, I know you through Charles Morrison...I know you are a "Premier Cue Dealer..We've chatted a few times on this site, and I've always shown you the respect you deserve...I did NOT know you were also an expert on everything else pool related...For instance, I think those guy's put their bankrolls together to play the big money men at the Rack...Not Red..He was too tough..and yes, he was pure ALPHA....Or maybe you didn't go back far enough to read MY original post ?..Hope you weren't dazzled by the brilliance of the two guy's after my post..."One will steal your eyeball, and the other will tell you you look better without it."...R. Wanderone.

Kevin is not premier cue dealer IMO. Secondly, he has been wrong on several cue issues where he portraits himself as one.

If everyone saw everything that some on here post they saw the Rack has to be bigger than the silverdome....

One time at band camp....

Ken

 

[Nine ... corner]

So, how did Cornbread play? He played good enough that everybody knows who he was. After that it's all just opinion.

Excellent point. I saw him make a shot in a game of nine ball that looked like a Massey trick shot. Big difference in doing "trick" shots in an exhibition and doing one for the cheese!

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Cornbread, if you ever play me 9 Ball I'll have you "slipping" and falling down"

A question like that always depends on who is answering it. I was watching the stream of the SBE and a lot of people in the chat room were saying Earl was washed up and couldn't play.

Then a week or two later Earl beat Van Boening in race to 25 on a tough table. So can Earl play or is he washed up? The people saying he is washed up will still say it.

So, how did Cornbread play? He played good enough that everybody knows who he was. After that it's all just opinion.

I hung out for a few weeks during the time the 'Color of Money' was being filmed in Chicago, at the RACK in Detroit. Cornbread came in there several times a week and BUGS and GRADY "The Professor" were playing a lot of one pocket. Cornbread looked to me like he played close to Grady (especially for BIG money), but he was a solid ball under Bugs.

Cornbread played especially well on the super tight equipment and I liked how he played, except for his "slip stroke".....I used to kid him and say "Cornbread, if you ever play me 9 Ball I'll have you "slipping" and falling down"....I never could figure out how he used that slip stroke, I know it was common at one time.....but that was WAY before my time.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I hung out for a few weeks during the time the 'Color of Money' was being filmed in Chicago, at the RACK in Detroit. Cornbread came in there several times a week and BUGS and GRADY "The Professor" were playing a lot of one pocket. Cornbread looked to me like he played close to Grady (especially for BIG money), but he was a solid ball under Bugs.

Cornbread played especially well on the super tight equipment and I liked how he played, except for his "slip stroke".....I used to kid him and say "Cornbread, if you ever play me 9 Ball I'll have you "slipping" and falling down"....I never could figure out how he used that slip stroke, I know it was common at one time.....but that was WAY before my time.

Red was in his mid-50s. Way past his prime. Look at you woofing at an old man. Were you in COM?

Kevin

 

[cueaddicts]

I wonder if Vernon and Red ever matched up for the cash....and who came out on top.

 

[12squared]

Cornbread was and is a legend. He had personality for days, was a joy to watch and listen to, and could bark like nobody else I had ever been around (and it was fun even if it was directed to you).

I grew up in Oak Park, MI where the Rack called home. I played at the Cushion n Cue 1/2 mile away, but was drawn to the Rack many times only gambling at 3-cushion a half o dozen times. I left the area in 1976 so my Rack experiences were from 72-76. That place was amazing.

Cornbread was the man and always put in action by the 'money guys'. They bet on his heart if not his play. Red was not the top of the food chain compared to the very best the country had to offer, but was dang close. Watching him play was a privilege. But I watched as Larry Hubbard brought Mike Sigel 3 consecutive years to play Red 1-pocket on his favorite 5x10 and Sigel left with the cash each year. Does losing to Mike Sigel make you a bad player? No, you have to be a monster to agree to play that game, but Red came up short.

Red had many more wins than loses when I had the privileged to watch him play - and even if he wasn't the BEST, he was a god to me. (Even though he may have, allegedly, dump every once in a while, but that's another story).

Play nice people - PEACE.

Dave