She used to do well on the Joss Tour competing with men
could Xiaoting Pan compete with the Mens pros if...
- Thread starter caromcheese
- Start date
She used to do well on the Joss Tour competing with men
TheThaiger
Banned
Yep. I think the Simonis cloth hides a lot of the cueing differences between the men and women. You really don't need a great stroke to move the cue ball around anymore. This has made it much easier for the women to compete with the men and is the main reason the "gap" has closed.
Sorry you don't think I can develop an original thought.
I said to 75 or 100. Somewhere in that range.
Pool competition should be similar to boxing. Individual long races to build up a record until there's an elite tier. The differentiation would be much better then.
Short races are the norm for only a couple of reasons. Easier to televise and easier to fit in a profitable tournament format where everyone and his grandma shows up.
There's a reason why well-matched money players don't play short races and quit.
Jay I'm sorry but that's a gaff bet...
They can't lose more than twice but they can have a good draw and easily ensure that you at least break even....
Jaden
Now if you want to do something where every man in their bracket in a tournament they have to play the same race and they have to play every man in their bracket, you have action sir...
Hell I'll even say they have to play the losing man of everyone in their bracket and you've got action...
This is in a major tournament like the US open....
Thank you for your well thought out opinion. Too bad it doesn't relate to the post I made about the top women players competing against the men in tournament competition.
I have offered more than once to bet on a women like Kelly or Jasmin when they play in an open tournament. I will bet on them in ALL their matches against the men pros.
No takers so far, not even you.
P.S. Please save your pixels, I don't want you to waste them. :smile:
They can't lose more than twice but they can have a good draw and easily ensure that you at least break even....
Jaden
Now if you want to do something where every man in their bracket in a tournament they have to play the same race and they have to play every man in their bracket, you have action sir...
Hell I'll even say they have to play the losing man of everyone in their bracket and you've got action...
This is in a major tournament like the US open....
Why, yes I do, Tim! The difference being that I use a different part of my body -- much further north -- to think with.
You make a good point here, but there are exceptions you know. In the sports world women have made amazing advances in the last few years, not just in pool. I will say this again for the hundredth time, pool is the one sport where men have no inherent advantage over women. There is no mental or physical reason why a woman can't play as well as any man. I think we will see the day when there is a woman world champion. It happened last year in bowling, why not in pool?
Jaden, what you are proposing is an impossible bet. What I proposed is actually feasible to bet on. What if they lose their first two matches? Then I'm stuck two bets. That's how gambling goes my friend!
Not sure how much hand strength is needed to play pool, and all committed pool players have to practice to build and refine coordination, both physical and hand-eye to play pool to one's full potential. I think the physical differences between men and women are notable in general, but we all have to "train" to be viable competitive pool players and these traits change with training and practice... In my opinion at that point it's not about men vs. women, but player vs. player.
But what I really wanted to say in response to your post was in regards to hand-strength... I know four different women who can crack a pair of walnuts in one hand... Connie Chung the famous news anchor could also do that... And she proved on David Letterman back in the day... I used to be a bodybuilder and I can't do that... All five of these women seriously scare me.
TheThaiger
Banned
There's one good reason why women don't play as well as men: will. I can't speak for the US but women in the UK are just not interested in the same activities men are. As far as I can see, the big excitement in the female world is celebrity gossip, eating and sitting down. Men have been brow-beaten by PC thugs into keeping quiet about this - this MUST end. As ever, a carrot and stick approach is needed, but we are too cowardly to stick, and too lazy to carrot.
Encouraging to hear about the female bowling world champ. I would've thought that WOULD have been male dominated, given the size and weight of the ball. Kudos to her.
Your "bet" is heavily stacked in your favor because in an open tournament, a female pro is far more likely to draw a weak player rather than a male world beater and all she has to do is win one set to break even. Ultimately your proposition proves nothing except that you want to draw some poor sucker into making a bad bet.
If you really had faith in your side of the argument, you would put a girl in the box with Chris Bartrum. If she wins or even just makes a good match, it might give more creedence to the idea that women and men are even in pool. Of course you still have to consider the fact that there are guys out there that can give Chris the 7 out and win.
Chris Bartrum: Would you ever take the bet in the OP where your female opponent gets a designated breaker? If not, what if you both got a designated breaker?
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It is established fact that the top women CAN beat the top men. If you were there at the Riviera in 2010, you'll recall that Yu Ram Cha, a fine player but one of slightly lesser skill than Xiaoting Pan, beat Shane Van Boening in the pro 10-ball event. If memory serves, the score was 11-8.
That said, I think that far more than the break stands between the top men and the top women. Perhaps having Charlie Bryant break for her would place Xiaoting Pan on a par with very fine players like Jeremy Sossei or Mike Davis, but I still reckon she'd remain a longshot to beat the superstars of men's pool. In fact, I don't even think that having Charlie Bryant break for her and being spotted all the breaks would be enough to place her on a par with the likes of Van Boening, Souquet, Alex, Busty, Hohmann, or Immonen in a race to 25.
These observations are far more a tribute to the very best men players than an indictment of Pan's exceptional game and skills.
That said, I think that far more than the break stands between the top men and the top women. Perhaps having Charlie Bryant break for her would place Xiaoting Pan on a par with very fine players like Jeremy Sossei or Mike Davis, but I still reckon she'd remain a longshot to beat the superstars of men's pool. In fact, I don't even think that having Charlie Bryant break for her and being spotted all the breaks would be enough to place her on a par with the likes of Van Boening, Souquet, Alex, Busty, Hohmann, or Immonen in a race to 25.
These observations are far more a tribute to the very best men players than an indictment of Pan's exceptional game and skills.
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I'm not sure it takes a monster break to win. At this level, all you need is control of whitey, decent spread, and make one ball. Given that, the top female players have excellent mechanics and can certainly string runs together.
I think it would be great for professional pool to to mix it up with the men and women. It's one of the few sports that doesn't require exceptional speed or strength.
Well said as always! Wait until you see Si Meng play. She will open your eyes and then some. This girl has ALL the shots and the smooth stroke to go with it! She just needs Sarah Rousey to break for her.
Funny how people think that's it's size and strength that make a powerful breaker. Au contraire, little Nicky Varner could cream those balls and so could Parica in his prime. Bustie is no taller than me (5'7"). To this day I've never seen anyone break harder than George Breedlove (in his youth), and he's only an average sized man.
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Well said as always! Wait until you see Si Meng play. She will open your eyes and then some. This girl has ALL the shots and the smooth stroke to go with it! She just needs Sarah Rousey to break for her.
Funny how people think that's it's size and strength that make a powerful breaker. Au contraire, little Nicky Varner could cream those balls and so could Parica in his prime. Bustie is no taller than me (5'7"). To this day I've never seen anyone break harder than George Breedlove (in his youth), and he's only an average sized man.
Right on, Jay. Tommy Kennedy is another small man who has always broken the hell out of the balls.
Assume you are referring to Siming Chen. Have not had the chance to watch her yet, but hope to have the chance.
Pick a lady and pony up. I am sure they would like a shot and Bartrum will play. I would love to see it and would buy the stream.
I think it's going to happen in the next three to four years and I think it's going to be an Asian woman. There's a strong field of Asian women because of the support for the sport there. Fu Xiao-Fang, for example, plays really solid right now.
Cripes! What a narrow little world you must live in.