Could y'all explain this to me?

J

JayRack

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How do you determine if somebody is a "professional" pool player? A guy from the pool room I grew up in told me the other day he turned pro 3 years ago. Wasn't sure what he was talking about. He still plays in these regional in state tournaments. He is usually the highest handicap in all these tournaments but a pro?
 
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At one time, anyone who played a sport such as baseball or football and didn't receive money from the team were considered amatures. Once they began playing for a team or playing for purses they were considered pro's,,They tried to bury Jim Thorpe back in the day by taking away his Olympic medals because he played for a small time baseball league and made a bit of money from it, then later took away the Olympic medals because he wasn't deemed an amateur because he was at one time a paid athlete and then deemed to be a pro. My 2 cents issued
 
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Chip Roberson said:
At one time, anyone who played a sport such as baseball or football and didn't receive money from the team were considered amatures. Once they began playing for a team or playing for purses they were considered pro's,,They tried to bury Jim Thorpe back in the day by taking away his Olympic medals because he played for a small time baseball league and made a bit of money from it, then later took away the Olympic medals because he wasn't deemed an amateur because he was at one time a paid athlete and then deemed to be a pro. My 2 cents issued
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A lot of validity to this. If your not being paid your not a pro. The guy that told me he turned pro 3 years ago was complaining that he couldn't get a game anymore.
 
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Like a lot of people here I have won multiple local tournaments the past 60 years and received prize money.
So am I no longer an amateur?
Side note when I was in Viet Nam I won the base straight pool tournament.
There was no prize money but I got a small trophy that I still have.
 
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In my humble opinion.... Your skill has zero bearing on your pro status. Until there is an oversight organization that will strip you of your "pro status" based on poor results. PGA tour card for example... There are bad versions of 'pros' in everything that should contain a level of professionalism. Be it sports, games, or careers.

Since there is no such thing in North America (or anywhere?)...:
If you are compensated beyond tournament winnings, then I consider you a pro. If someone/company has deemed you "professional" enough to compensate you to represent their business, then you are a pro. If a TD is willing to cover any of your expenses to make an appearance as a player, then you're a pro.

I don't include tournament winnings because anyone can win a tournament. ...and again, until there is a true to form "pro" circuit that grants membership based on winnings then what bearing does that level of success have...?
 
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The_JV said:
In my humble opinion.... Your skill has zero bearing on your pro status. Until there is an oversight organization that will strip you of your "pro status" based on poor results. PGA tour card for example... There are bad versions of 'pros' in everything that should contain a level of professionalism. Be it sports, games, or careers.

Since there is no such thing in North America (or anywhere?)...:
If you are compensated beyond tournament winnings, then I consider you a pro. If someone/company has deemed you "professional" enough to compensate you to represent their business, then you are a pro. If a TD is willing to cover any of your expenses to make an appearance as a player, then you're a pro.

I don't include tournament winnings because anyone can win a tournament. ...and again, until there is a true to forum "pro" circuit that grants membership based on winnings then what bearing does that level of success have...?
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In my world (non-pool), there are pros that have no business being pros from a skill standpoint. They are nothing more than professional opponents.
 
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The distinction of "pro" is not a black & white proposition. Technically, anyone choosing to pursue a career playing pool can consider themselves a pro, regardless of skill. However, that doesn't mean others will. You need to build some cred. One way is by having a Fagrorate relative to other pros. Another way is to enter a pro event and beat a player considered a "pro". Getting sponsored is yet another. It's not as simple in pool as signing a contract with a "pro" team like baseball, or even paying a membership fee to an organization, like in golf. Alternatively, one could register at AZ Billiards and become a Gold Member. Then you can write off the expense.

Something else to muddy the waters. When it comes to sports, our definition of "pro" can tend to be a little skewed. Mainly due to how "pro" teams market themselves. Amateur baseball players, or minor leaguers, for example, are still pro baseball players.

I'd say, if "your buddy" wants to call himself a pro, let him. There's unsuccessful "pros" across the board.
 
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JessEm said:
The distinction of "pro" is not a black & white proposition. Technically, anyone choosing to pursue a career playing pool can consider themselves a pro, regardless of skill. However, that doesn't mean others will. Another way is by having a Fagrorate relative to other players considered pros. Or, by entering a pro event and beating a player considered a "pro". Getting sponsored is yet another. In pool it's not as simple as signing a contract with a "pro" team, like baseball, or even paying a membership to an organization, like in golf.

I'd say, if your buddy wants to call himself a pro, let him. There's unsuccessful "pros" across the board.
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Right. Never had an issue with him referring to himself as a pro. Hell, he's from my pool room so I want him to go as far as he can. I'm not hating I just wasn't sure what he meant. Just trying to get some clarity on what separates one from amateur status to pro status.
 
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I'm in the camp where it is completely disconnected from skill level. In the absence of a ruling organization that makes and enforces rules of amateur status (like the USGA - Tiger Woods was supremely skilled when he won his 3rd US Amateur, but that didn't make him a pro. Cf. Bobby Jones and Francis Ouimet) the definition that makes the most sense, to me, is a pro makes his living from the game. That would include playing, teaching, endorsing, and maybe some other things.
 
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Biloxi Boy said:
Wait a minute. Don't get misled, young'ns. This is a gross figure. What we rallly need to know is what type of net do these players ultimately realize? What expenses do they incur? Travel expenses, Income tax, self-employment tax -- a 60K gross will melt to nothing in 2 seconds, and you can't pay many bills with nothing. Sad truth is what you make ain't what you get.
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Regardless of gross or net income it is still prize money that was won in competition.
 
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Aside from my previous sarcasm, true "professional" anything comes from making it their "profession". In other words, it's their "job".

The word professional has been bastardized over the years, as have many other words.

I do suppose, however, that by saying you are a billiard pro, you could be referri g to the other more common use of the word "pro" and really just be a billiard whore.
 
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JayRack said:
I like the Fargo rating idea. 760 or over your deemed a pro... That sounds good to me.
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I think the number bandied around was 750 some years ago. With jump in top Fargo to close to 820+ these days, probably up 10+ points , 760 is about right. I think in recent years, lowest Fargo with highest finish in major event (i.e. W9B,W10B,USO, IO,CO ) was Masato Yoshioka (around 750 to 760 Fargo) -semifinalist in W10B. Anyone with less than 750 or 760 has almost no chance of reaching semis of major event.
 
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JayRack said:
How do you determine if somebody is a "professional" pool player? A guy from the pool room I grew up in told me the other day he turned pro 3 years ago. Wasn't sure what he was talking about. He still plays in these regional in state tournaments. He is usually the highest handicap in all these tournaments but a pro?
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I always thought its money based from high level tournaments
 
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measureman said:
Neptune Joe frady (RIP) was a "professional" player from N.J.
He played about as good as anyone at one time.
He also worked a full time job unloading ammunition ships at Earle naval base in N.J.
Unload ships all day and run a 100 balls that night.
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I played Joe well after his prime at a tournament at Sandcastle and barely saw the table during our match. Incredible player.
 
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