Crazy Clue and Ivory

JoseV

JoseV

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im about to change a few tips with ivory ferrules on them i hear that normal crazy glue has a certain reaction to the ivory is this true?

What type of glue should i use to glue on the fibre tip pad to the ferrule and the tip on to the the fibre pad ?

Thank you.
 
JoseV said:
Im about to change a few tips with ivory ferrules on them i hear that normal crazy glue has a certain reaction to the ivory is this true?

What type of glue should i use to glue on the fibre tip pad to the ferrule and the tip on to the the fibre pad ?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

If you are just putting on a leather tip you can use a contact type glue such as Twettens or Barge. They take longer to set up but do work great. That is all I used when I had a pool room and I must have put on thousands of tips and they never come off. Other then people wanting to do it quicker, I think the gluing of a cue tip has been a little over analyzed lately. Just another opinion.
 
I am resurrecting this because I have also heard that Cyano (super) glue reacts with the Ivory and can weaken it or something, so I would like some additional insight into this.

Basically, I gather that Cyano is good for all ferrules EXCEPT Ivory, which is usually done with Elmer's white glue.

So, let the flood gates open once again! I certainly don't want to weaken my ferrules over something as minor as the glue selected!

Similarly, attaching the ferrule to the maple shaft- Elmer's waterproof wood glue? Or, do you think West System is a safer bet?

Thanks in advance to all who contribute!:thumbup:
 
Cyano and Ivory Reaction

This has nothing to do with tips,
but,
I notice that Cyano Aqualate (?) whitens the Ivory.
I put on a layer of "Super Glue", let dry, and wet sand it off and some of the Brown color is gone.
The Ivory comes whiter.
IMO,YMMV
AT - CC

Jose, Take care out there, Hope you have a safe 5 months and get back safely..
Alton
 
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Cue Guru said:
I am resurrecting this because I have also heard that Cyano (super) glue reacts with the Ivory and can weaken it or something, so I would like some additional insight into this.

Basically, I gather that Cyano is good for all ferrules EXCEPT Ivory, which is usually done with Elmer's white glue.

So, let the flood gates open once again! I certainly don't want to weaken my ferrules over something as minor as the glue selected!

Similarly, attaching the ferrule to the maple shaft- Elmer's waterproof wood glue? Or, do you think West System is a safer bet?

Thanks in advance to all who contribute!:thumbup:
Click to expand...

You are the first person I have heard this from. I not only glue the tips on with super glue gel but I also seal the ferrules with a couple of coats of thin super glue. I always use epoxy for installing all ferrules although a white Elmer's type of glue leaves a cleaner looking glue line.

Dick
 
Instaling ferrulle's I use a wood glue and for tips its usually super glue gel.
 
Cue Guru said:
I am resurrecting this because I have also heard that Cyano (super) glue reacts with the Ivory and can weaken it or something, so I would like some additional insight into this.

Basically, I gather that Cyano is good for all ferrules EXCEPT Ivory, which is usually done with Elmer's white glue.

So, let the flood gates open once again! I certainly don't want to weaken my ferrules over something as minor as the glue selected!

Similarly, attaching the ferrule to the maple shaft- Elmer's waterproof wood glue? Or, do you think West System is a safer bet?

Thanks in advance to all who contribute!:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I don't know about Elmers I have never used that for tips, but there could be some merit to what you say. It is possible the super glue could have some reaction with the make up of the Ivory such as maybe making it brittle on the end and cause chipping who knows. I will tell you something interesting. I work with super glue for something else not cue related. My finger tips were cracking and bleeding. I could not figure what it was. Then I figured it out. I hold the parts with my fingers when I assemble them with the glue. I was not getting any glue on my fingers at all. It turns out it was the off gases from the glue as it set up that was affecting my fingers. Now I ware rubber gloves, actually just the fingers of the gloves that I cut off and slide on my fingers. Since I started that it haven't had a break out. To be sure I did some with out the gloves and within a few hours my finger tips were burning. The truth is, we don't really know what the reaction of the glue is with the Ivory. Ivory is made up mostly of calcium phosphate and is effected by heat. Super glue produces quite a bit of heat when it dries. Get it on your fingers and it actually burns.

Knowing what I know, that I don't know, I could see using something different like a rubber based contact cement just to be on the safe side if you are so inclined.
 
Well guys, thanks for the input!

I also know a lot of cue repair people who use super glue gell. The best one I have found is from Locktite, and it has some sort of 'rubberizing' agent in it, so it's not so brittle. That holds a tip on QUITE well.

Before that, I used the gel stuff in all flavors...

But, I never worked with Ivory ferrules. I always sent those to more experienced cue makers and/or repair people (mainly for liability at the time).

Now I'm making my own shafts, and I want to do the best I can for my ferrules, so that outlast me.

So I was thinking that since Ivory is organic and absorbs water, it might not be a gad idea to use a water-based glue (such as Elmers or wood glue) which is water based. To further enhance the bond, soak the ferrules in distilled water overnight before gluing them up. Sort of like that same trick bricklayers (well, the good ones anyway) do to enhance the bond of the mortar to the bricks.

What do we think about that?

I mean, have you tried gluing up a couple pieces of maple with Elmer's wood glue? You will break the wood before the bond breaks. Now slather that on a threaded tenon and crank it in... It should hold fine. But what about that tip? Elmer's is stated as ideal for leather, but Ivory is not mentioned... Maybe I should contact Elmer's and ask them directly?

As to contact cement, or any glue for that matter with a solvent base, I think it is all a bad idea with an Ivory ferrule. Like the person above having skin problems due to the fumes, contacting the fumes from these glues (and West System is probably no better in that regard) which could have an adverse affect on the ferrule (or joint, or butt cap or whatever) since, like skin, it is an organic material (more exactly like fingernail and hair actually).

Still thinking...:confused:
 
Just had another thought- super glue came out in the mid sixties right? Originally developed to replace sutures in American GI's in Vietnam- faster and no need to remove the stitches later. Well, the problem is that skin cannot grow through the glue line, so people were literally falling apart after surgery. But that is a story for another thread I think...

Anyway, prior to that, Ivory was used more so than today (I'm guessing on that) back into the thirties and maybe further, and some other glue was used to hold tips to those ferrules because there was no Super Glue yet.

What did George use? What about Gus? Frank? Herman? Any old timers out there have any insight to look back before I was born?:wink:
 
OK lets see what type of glue should i use to place the fibre pads on to the ferrule ? SHould i use elmars glue for the tip and fibre pad ? Thank you for open the gates Guro.
 
super glue

History of Super Glue

Since its heralded beginning, the powerful adhesive known as Super Glue has enjoyed a rich history - including an imaginative element of mythology! Though urban legend describes the glue as an accidental solution to battle wounds during World War II, its actual evolution is a little different.

The original cyanoacrylates (the chemical name for the glue) were discovered in 1942 in a search for materials to make clear plastic gun sights for the war, and scientists stumbled upon a formulation that stuck to everything that it came in contact with. However, cyanoacrylates were quickly rejected by American researchers precisely because they stuck to everything! In 1951, cyanoacrylates were rediscovered by Eastman Kodak researchers Harry Coover and Fred Joyner, who recognized its true commercial potential, and it was first sold as a commercial product in 1958.

Another rumor bites the dust.

The small amount used to put on a tip doesn't generate a lot of heat. People are allergic to different things. Dieckman swore that the vapor given off was cyanide gas. Why do you think the old guys always threaded their ferrules, the adhesives sucked in those days. If elmers wood glue is so good ,why do chairs come apart. Every joint, every adhesive has it's limitations. You just have to know yours.
 
Titebond all purpose white glue is all I use on ferrules, pads and tips.
Dries clear, holding power has never been a problem when surfaces are properly prepared to accept this type of glue. Threaded ferrules so it is just used to lock the threads in place. Only draw back is I have wait 3-5 minutes after I glue a tip on to shape them. Most of the time I glue up the tips and pads and put a rubberband on them overnight. Being in a hurry has no place in building cues.


disclaimer<~~~ only use lbm and ivory ferrules........
 
cutter said:
History of Super Glue

Since its heralded beginning, the powerful adhesive known as Super Glue has enjoyed a rich history - including an imaginative element of mythology! Though urban legend describes the glue as an accidental solution to battle wounds during World War II, its actual evolution is a little different.

The original cyanoacrylates (the chemical name for the glue) were discovered in 1942 in a search for materials to make clear plastic gun sights for the war, and scientists stumbled upon a formulation that stuck to everything that it came in contact with. However, cyanoacrylates were quickly rejected by American researchers precisely because they stuck to everything! In 1951, cyanoacrylates were rediscovered by Eastman Kodak researchers Harry Coover and Fred Joyner, who recognized its true commercial potential, and it was first sold as a commercial product in 1958.

Another rumor bites the dust.

The small amount used to put on a tip doesn't generate a lot of heat. People are allergic to different things. Dieckman swore that the vapor given off was cyanide gas. Why do you think the old guys always threaded their ferrules, the adhesives sucked in those days. If elmers wood glue is so good ,why do chairs come apart. Every joint, every adhesive has it's limitations. You just have to know yours.
Click to expand...

good post steve
Though urban legend describes the glue as an accidental solution to battle wounds during World War II, its actual evolution is a little different.
it might be legend, but i will say this, it does heal battle wounds.
and i mean wounds, not nicks , cuts, scrapes,
i'm talking about wounds that would require stitches
i've glued my battle i.e. shop wounds many times with ca :thumbup:
i keep a bottle near the lathe for such occasions :rotflmao1:
 
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My dermatologist uses the gel in his office, for dry cracked skin. I also have splits on the ends of my fingers. When glue stops working, I go in for a shot & my hands heal within 4-5 days. Baby soft...JER
 
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