CSI-Mark Griffin First Response

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SakuJack said:
Apologies if this has already been cleared up, but was Ko told he wouldn't get paid if he refused to play SVB?
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No. As discussed clearly in the ABR broadcast, if he refused to play, he was informed the 2nd place player in his "pool" (there were 4 pools of 4 players)would take his place. Therefore Ko Pin Yi would instead get a tie for 5th. That would be $1k less than finishing 3/4, which was assured of as a minimum if he played.
 
Mark Griffin said:
Satori -
It does not surprise me at all that you will continue to push on this. I believe we had a similar go around on an earlier topic - maybe bonus ball?

If you feel Ko is owed something, please feel free to pay him something. CSI has already spent $50,000 bringing these great players to this event.

No one was cheated. I'm sorry you feel that way. But pushing forward on this only makes the situation worse. If you disagree with the rules - please create a new event for the player.

Respectfully,
mark Griffin
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You want me to let it go? Ok, you are right, it does make the situation worse. Maybe you yourself can remember that the next time you want to speak out against players and or other promoters because the conflicts do nothing to increase neither the fans or the sponsors. There is you, your sponsors, other promoters, their sponsors, and a list of pros (more than 16) all looking to do their thing and the public stirring of the pot or blaming or character attacks does more harm than good.

Let's just change the subject. We have a great 14.1 event coming up that everyone can discuss.
 
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(((Satori))) said:
My opinion remains the same and it would be the same no matter who stepped in to replace Ralf. CSI seems to hate assumptions yet they have no problem assuming people would not feel this way if Shane was not involved. Just one more example of the hypocrisy.

From the beginning I have said the decision was not fair to Ko. I still feel the same way because the rules were clear before the tournament. The WINNER of each group moves on. If I'm Ko and you make up a new rule in the middle of the tournament I'm going to feel cheated. I feel Ko was cheated. On top of that, he had to playa big match right after being cheated with no time to mentally recoup. It was a bad decision and I still feel Ko should be compensated.
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:deadhorse:

I'd give Ko a call, or talk with someone that knows him. From that....a Logical decision could be made to help your perspective.

Better yet you could help me out by doing this. Find out why, years ago at the Venetion in Las Vegas, when my match with Mizerak was called....WHY he didn't show and then WHY they rescheduled instead of putting him into the losers bracket???????
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
No. As discussed clearly in the ABR broadcast, if he refused to play, he was informed the 2nd place player in his "pool" (there were 4 pools of 4 players)would take his place. Therefore Ko Pin Yi would instead get a tie for 5th. That would be $1k less than finishing 3/4, which was assured of as a minimum if he played.
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Okay thanks. I didn't have time to listen to the broadcast.

I guess that's fair enough once the original decision to progress Shane had been made, in that it's the same rule for everyone (?).

I still think this whole thing was handled poorly, but CSI seem to have acted with good intentions and have stood up and explained their actions. It was a mistake to progress Shane in Ralf's place, IMO, and Ko should have received a bye following Ralf's forfeit, but I think everyone should at least be in agreement that nothing underhand occured.
 
Sorry if I missed it. So the final payout was .....?

1st baby ko
2nd shane
3-4 ralph, toasty, and ko pin yi
 
Leagues and laws have been around forever. They are in constant change. There is always something not covered and therefore changes need to be made. I would guess this situation will be covered in the rules for the next event. It happens in sports all the time. The key is to stay consistent and make appropriate changes so when something like this happens it is covered and there will be no argument. Whether you like a rule or not is not whats important.. It's more important that it's in place and the same for everyone.
 
gxman said:
Sorry if I missed it. So the final payout was .....?

1st baby ko
2nd shane
3-4 ralph, toasty, and ko pin yi
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Ralf was paid 3rd/4th place money in error. He should have got 5th/6th money and has been requested to repay the difference.

When Ko asked what would happen if he withdrew from the competition prior to his semi-final, he was also told that he would be 5th/6th also, and the second player in his group would take his place.

The interview starts around 10mins on the recording at the foot of the page on the ABR website:

http://www.americanbilliardradio.com
 
jburkm002 said:
Leagues and laws have been around forever. They are in constant change. There is always something not covered and therefore changes need to be made. I would guess this situation will be covered in the rules for the next event. It happens in sports all the time. The key is to stay consistent and make appropriate changes so when something like this happens it is covered and there will be no argument. Whether you like a rule or not is not whats important.. It's more important that it's in place and the same for everyone.
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Thank you for this. I have personally worked over 200 tournaments in my life and I can affirm that sometimes things come up during the course of a game, match or event that are not covered by any "rule." This is where good judgement comes in on the part of tournament officials, and an attempt at the most fair ruling needs to be made. This is not a perfect science and rarely will everyone present agree with the ruling but that is why you have officials to make it. They must bare the brunt of the responsibility for the outcome, as they have here.

In this case I don't know what I would have done or how I would have ruled. I'm glad that I wasn't the one put in this position. I wasn't there so I was not privy to any conversations that took place. I think Mark and his staff made what to them was the correct ruling at the time. Obviously not everyone agrees after the fact.

So here's the bottom line kids, Life is not fair! Sometime things go the way we want and sometimes they don't. If you're a winner, you get back up and fight the good fight, over and over again. No matter what! What you don't do is b-tch and moan endlessly about how unfair things are. All of us have been the recipients of a bad decision at one time or another. How we handled that is the true test of our mettle. I suspect Ko will come back and win many tournaments in the future. This was just a hiccup along the way.

More to my liking right now is the incredible run being made by Team Philippines in Bejing at the World Team Championships. They are showing the courage that makes them all champions. For me this would be a very symbolic victory for the Philippines over China if they can complete it in the finals. I think we all know the history of the ongoing conflict between China and The Philippines. A win here for the underdog Filipinos would send a clear message to the world that they will not buckle under to pressure and will never give up! For me this final match will be more significant than almost any pool match played before. Kind of reminds me of the Ping Pong diplomacy of many years ago. These four little Filipinos are representing a nation right now! This is about a lot more than a simple game of Pool!
 
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jay helfert said:
Thank you for this. I have personally worked over 200 tournaments in my life and I can affirm that sometimes things come up during the course of a game, match or event that are not covered by any "rule." This is where good judgement comes in on the part of tournament officials, and an attempt at the most fair ruling needs to be made. This is not a perfect science and rarely will everyone present agree with the ruling but that is why you have officials to make it. They must bare the brunt of the responsibility for the outcome, as they have here.

In this case I don't know what I would have done or how I would have ruled. I'm glad that I wasn't the one put in this position. I wasn't there so I was not privy to any conversations that took place. I think Mark and his staff made what to them was the correct ruling at the time. Obviously not everyone agrees after the fact.

So here's the bottom line kids, Life is not fair! Sometime things go the way we want and sometimes they don't. If you're a winner, you get back up and fight the good fight, over and over again. No matter what! What you don't do is b-tch and moan endlessly about how unfair things are. All of us have been the recipients of a bad decision at one time or another. How we handled that is the true test of our mettle. I suspect Ko will come back and win many tournaments in the future. This was just a hiccup along the way.

More to my liking right now is the incredible run being made by Team Philippines in Bejing at the World Team Championships. They are showing the courage that makes them all champions. For me this would be a very symbolic victory for the Philippines over China if they can complete it in the finals. I think we all know the history of the ongoing conflict between China and The Philippines. A win here for the underdog Filipinos would send a clear message to the world that they will not buckle under to pressure and will never give up! For me this final match will be more significant than almost any pool match played before. Kind of reminds me of the Ping Pong diplomacy of many years ago. These four little Filipinos are representing a nation right now! This is about a lot more than a simple win at Pool!
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Jay,

This is not the first time someone was late for their match or a no show/forfeit or withdrawal! This is not something not previously covered in both the industry and CSI.

This is a NEW policy. NO FORFEITS period! A new way of handling this situation. You MUST play someone!

But, who or what is to say that after being eliminated that the next player eligible will be around or available to play and return. What happens if SHANE had already left? What if Dennis was already gone also? What if all players are GONE? Delay the match for days? Issue the bye?

This policy is not with out ramifications and ASSUMING you can get the eliminated player back to the arena is an awful big ASSUMPTION???

Jay, i respect you very much! No one wants CSI to take its bat and its ball and go home. Just struggling to grapple with the decision and its ramifications both real and implied.

KD
 
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The downline possibilities of not finding an eligible player are miniscule compared to the problem of having matches scheduled late in the event without two players.
 
jay helfert said:
Thank you for this. I have personally worked over 200 tournaments in my life and I can affirm that sometimes things come up during the course of a game, match or event that are not covered by any "rule." This is where good judgement comes in on the part of tournament officials, and an attempt at the most fair ruling needs to be made. This is not a perfect science and rarely will everyone present agree with the ruling but that is why you have officials to make it. They must bare the brunt of the responsibility for the outcome, as they have here.

In this case I don't know what I would have done or how I would have ruled. I'm glad that I wasn't the one put in this position. I wasn't there so I was not privy to any conversations that took place. I think Mark and his staff made what to them was the correct ruling at the time. Obviously not everyone agrees after the fact.

So here's the bottom line kids, Life is not fair! Sometime things go the way we want and sometimes they don't. If you're a winner, you get back up and fight the good fight, over and over again. No matter what! What you don't do is b-tch and moan endlessly about how unfair things are. All of us have been the recipients of a bad decision at one time or another. How we handled that is the true test of our mettle. I suspect Ko will come back and win many tournaments in the future. This was just a hiccup along the way.

More to my liking right now is the incredible run being made by Team Philippines in Bejing at the World Team Championships. They are showing the courage that makes them all champions. For me this would be a very symbolic victory for the Philippines over China if they can complete it in the finals. I think we all know the history of the ongoing conflict between China and The Philippines. A win here for the underdog Filipinos would send a clear message to the world that they will not buckle under to pressure and will never give up! For me this final match will be more significant than almost any pool match played before. Kind of reminds me of the Ping Pong diplomacy of many years ago. These four little Filipinos are representing a nation right now! This is about a lot more than a simple game of Pool!
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Yep Jay, when your heardin' cats....Especially the big ones with spots :eek: one has to be creative as they are always workin' the angles. :shocked: :slap:
 
jay helfert said:
More to my liking right now is the incredible run being made by Team Philippines in Bejing at the World Team Championships. They are showing the courage that makes them all champions. For me this would be a very symbolic victory for the Philippines over China if they can complete it in the finals. I think we all know the history of the ongoing conflict between China and The Philippines. A win here for the underdog Filipinos would send a clear message to the world that they will not buckle under to pressure and will never give up! For me this final match will be more significant than almost any pool match played before. Kind of reminds me of the Ping Pong diplomacy of many years ago. These four little Filipinos are representing a nation right now! This is about a lot more than a simple game of Pool!
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Intermission: China(B) just won over Japan after Wang Can won the safety battle on the last rack. So tomorrow 2pm (that's 2am EST) it's gonna be Philippines vs China(B) in the finals.
 
i didnt hear the broadcast
could someone summarize the reasoning behind "THE DECISION' as told by csi
thanks
 
So basically Ko was threatened with the amount of money he would receive if he did not play...hmmmm.
 
bbb said:
i didnt hear the broadcast
could someone summarize the reasoning behind "THE DECISION' as told by csi
thanks
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The reason for the decision was primarily down to what CSI consider appropriate for this tournament format.

See my post above for the other key points and a link to the audio (post 88).
 
nplum24 said:
So basically Ko was threatened with the amount of money he would receive if he did not play...hmmmm.
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I think he was told that to earn 3rd/4th money you had to play in a semi-final. Therefore, if you withdrew you would be replaced and paid out for 5th/6th.

Not a threat really, just a clarification regarding the format.
 
mark187187 said:
I think he was told that to earn 3rd/4th money you had to play in a semi-final. Therefore, if you withdrew you would be replaced and paid out for 5th/6th.

Not a threat really, just a clarification regarding the format.
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So both Ko and Ralf win their flights and advance to semi's, Ralf refuses to play and gets paid 3/4 and Ko is told he gets 5/6 if he refuses to play Ralf's stand in?

Shouldn't Ralf have been "clarified" too?


"Mistakes were made" - Edwin Meese, Iran Contra
 
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SWRLE said:
So both Ko and Ralf win their flights and advance to semi's, Ralf refuses to play and gets paid 3/4 and Ko is told he gets 5/6 if he refuses to play Ralf's stand in?

Shouldn't Ralf have been "clarified" too?


"Mistakes were made" - Edwin Meese, Iran Contra
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Ralf was paid 3rd/4th in error. He should have got 5th/6th money, and has been asked to repay the difference
 
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