CTE aiming.

Dr._D,
I totaly concur with your last post and that is what I also conclude - moving the bridge forward or backward from the CB - if that's possible as long as the CB isn't near a rail and you have to place your bridge hand on the rail.

If your bridge is on the rail then you need to shift your bridge slightly as in the last gif.

Thanks....I don't think that It will take months to get the hang of it, but I know where to aim without CTE, but I will experiment for very thin cuts where I the aim point is not a point on the OB.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
dr_dave said:
CTE_pivot_animation.gif
Click to expand...
Your bridge doesn't deform. The shaft rotates around your middle finger versus spinning on top of it. The grainy video you love to refer to above doesn't show that well, but that's what's happening.
Click to expand...
Maybe "deform" isn't the right word, but the bridge hand is definitely not "fixed" or "rigid" in this animation. If it were, the "pivot point" of the cue would be at the bridge hand. It obviously isn't in this example. The "effective pivot length" (the distance between the CB and the actual cue "pivot point") is much longer than the bridge length here due to the "shift," "tilt," "rotation," or "adjustment" of the bridge hand. The trick is to "shift," "tilt," "rotate," or "adjust" the exact amount needed for the particular shot, based on the chosen bridge length and the necessary cut angle.

Regards,
Dave
 
SpiderWebComm said:
The table isn't rotated. It's sitting on the floor, in your basement. Nobody moved the table. It's too heavy to rotate without movers. Keep brainstorming.
Click to expand...

I don't have a basement or a table down there.
In the 2nd pic I must have taken a step to the left which makes the table appear to be rotated CC in your pic.
 
LAMas said:
Dr._D,
I totaly concur with your last post and that is what I also conclude - moving the bridge forward or backward from the CB - if that's possible as long as the CB isn't near a rail and you have to place your bridge hand on the rail.

If your bridge is on the rail then you need to shift your bridge slightly as in the last gif.

Thanks....I don't think that It will take months to get the hang of it, but I know where to aim without CTE, but I will experiment for very thin cuts where I the aim point is not a point on the OB.
Click to expand...

Lamas - I wouldn't be too fast to concur with Dr. Dave. You arc your pivot from a static bridge position based on the distance to the OB. Who knows where the cue pivots from -- that's a red herring - it doesn't matter nor is it a conscious thing. The only conscious movement is to move the cue along a portion of the radian that starts from the OB vertical plane at 12:00 (think a minute hand around a clock face).

If someone adjusts their bridge length in order to arc his/her pivot: they will NEVER make a ball....EVER. Your mind will never, ever pre-determine the pivot point required for the shot accurately and repeatably.

The info that Dr. D posted isn't bad info--- it just has zero to do with CTE as a method.
 
SWC,
I understand what you are saying about keeping the bridge stationary and rotating it about the index finger back to the center of the CB once I have shifted the cue one diameter to the side of center.

How do I achieve a 90 degree cut from that single position?
 
LAMas said:
SWC,
I understand what you are saying about keeping the bridge stationary and rotating it about the index finger back to the center of the CB once I have shifted the cue one diameter to the side of center.

How do I achieve a 90 degree cut from that single position?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how to answer your question based on what you said alone. Can you be more specific? In the meantime, for a 60 degree cut and 90 degree cut at the same distance = different outermost edge. We're circling back to my two pics :)

I hope everyone here assumes when you pivot (for basis of this conversation), it's a 1/2 ball pivot with the center of your tip at the edge of the CB.

Forget that 1 shaft diameter stuff for now. We can get into that later after we brainstorm a little about the geometry of my 2 posted pics. I'd like to read more about how the two pics are the same and how they're different geometrically.

So you don't have to flip to the previous page:

What's the difference between these two pictures?

Example 1:
step1j.jpg


Example 2:
step2es.jpg
 
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The difference between the two pictures is: the 2nd is rotated a little, but that's probably not the answer you wanted.

Another possible answer is: the 1st is aligned with the line of centers of the CB and OB, and the 2nd is aligned close to (but not exactly along) the CTE (center-to-edge) line.

Do I get a gold star? :o

Dave

SpiderWebComm said:
What's the difference between these two pictures?

Example 1:
step1j.jpg


Example 2:
step2es.jpg
Click to expand...
 
OK, I am down and I have my cue tip at the center of the CB aimed at the right edge of the OB. I have not rotated my shaft. Me thinks that I will achieve a 30 degree cut on the OB.

In the case of a 30 dergee cut as above, no shifting of the cue shaft is necessary.

I want to make a 90 degree cut into a pocket to the left of the OB. I read that I need to shift the cue one tip diameter to the left while sliding my bridge as well.

I am now supposed to rotate the shaft about my bridge until it is again aimed at the centter of the CB. The cue is now aimed away from the right edge of the OB. this is where I need to be aiming to cut the OB 90 degrees.

I will stop here for the moment.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Lamas - I wouldn't be too fast to concur with Dr. Dave. ...
If someone adjusts their bridge length in order to arc his/her pivot: they will NEVER make a ball....EVER. Your mind will never, ever pre-determine the pivot point required for the shot accurately and repeatably.
Click to expand...
For the record, I didn't say you had to vary the bridge length. I just said this is one method to achieve different "effective pivot lengths." Here's the quote again:

A fractional pivot is one possible approach to vary the cut amount. Another possible approach is to vary the "effective pivot length." This diagram from my December '08 BD article shows how you can achieve radically different cuts with the same alignment (90/90) and same pivot (to the CB center) if you vary the pivot length:

aim_bridge.jpg

One way to do this is to vary the bridge length (as implied by the diagram). Another is to shift or deform your bridge hand during the pivot. Here's an example of this, posted by Colin a while back:

CTE_pivot_animation.gif

The other way is to "pivot in air" before placing the bridge hand down, but pivoting the right amount is obviously critical.

The difficulty is in knowing how much to pivot or knowing what "effective pivot length" to use for the necessary cut angle of the shot. This is what takes lots of practice and judgment. I think DAM is still a much simpler approach; although, it takes practice also. Regardless of which "aiming system" you use (even if it is: "just see the angle"), you need to practice to develop and improve your "visual intelligence" and you need to actually focus on aiming the shot. "Aiming systems" can help some people do this (for more info, see benefits of "aiming systems").
 
dr_dave said:
The difference between the two pictures is: the 2nd is rotated a little, but that's probably not the answer you wanted.

Another possible answer is: the 1st is aligned with the line of centers of the CB and OB, and the 2nd is aligned close to (but not exactly along) the CTE (center-to-edge) line.

Do I get a gold star? :o

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave:

Close, but no gold star. Both shots are aligned to the CTE line, right? (if the line is slightly off, it's because of my crap photoshop skills - assume it's perfect for purpose of discussion)

This is a pretty critical brainstorming activity. Stay with me on this. It's no fun if I make a 2 page post. Let's talk this through.

The table might appear rotated, but the table is nailed to the floor and can't be moved. Both shots are aligned CTE. Let's make a list of everything that's different between the two pics geometrically.

Also, remove "another way is to vary your bridge length." In the world of pivot aiming, that doesn't exist (and that's the topic you're discussing in that post).
 
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dr_dave said:
The difference between the two pictures is: the 2nd is rotated a little, but that's probably not the answer you wanted.

Another possible answer is: the 1st is aligned with the line of centers of the CB and OB, and the 2nd is aligned close to (but not exactly along) the CTE (center-to-edge) line.

Do I get a gold star? :o

Dave
Click to expand...



I am sure the answer is.....No.
I either case, what difference does it make?
 
lamas said:
ok, i am down and i have my cue tip at the center of the cb aimed at the right edge of the ob. I have not rotated my shaft. Me thinks that i will achieve a 30 degree cut on the ob.

In the case of a 30 dergee cut as above, no shifting of the cue shaft is necessary. lamas: Wrong. One always pivots. Why? Because the pivot based on proper alignment automatically makes the ball. I can setup 10 shots on the table at varying lengths and cut angles ranging from 25-35 degrees (with only one being 30 degrees). Angles are invisible so don't assume you would 100% know a 30 degree angle when it presents itself. Assume it's not and also try not to care.

i want to make a 90 degree cut into a pocket to the left of the ob. I read that i need to shift the cue one tip diameter to the left while sliding my bridge as well.

wrong. Your tip should be at the edge of the cb. Which edge depends on whether you're using cte or pro1. Also, keep in mind you must offset the throw of the shot so your final tip position is far to the outside (pivot beyond center). This is a mega hard shot no matter how you aim.

i am now supposed to rotate the shaft about my bridge until it is again aimed at the centter of the cb. The cue is now aimed away from the right edge of the ob. This is where i need to be aiming to cut the ob 90 degrees.

i don't think you can make this shot with center cb (maybe i'm wrong). Also, you never rotate the shaft about your bridge - that would be geometrically incorrect. At any distance, you'll miss the ob completely. You arc (not rotate) your pivot based on the shot arc (bridge = center, ob = edge of circle).




i will stop here for the moment.
Click to expand...

see answers above
 
How about a picture of the circles?

- NEWS FLASH>>>There are TWO CIRCLES that are the foundation of CTE's geometry: 1) The shot circle: bridge is the center of the circle and the face of the OB is the edge (used to determine the arc of your pivot) and 2) The OB circle: is made with the OB being the center of the circle and the CB being the edge (this circle is used to determine the "outermost edge" pre-pivot)

..... so with those tiny little insignificant nuggets, a high school DROP OUT can play around for an hour and quintuple their ball pocketing overnight. Wannabes will stare at it and want to be fed more and post further nonsense. Matter of fact, this paired with some way-older posts is the complete picture. I wonder who'll figure it out first??

The reason the guts of this hasn't been disclosed online for years isn't because there's no guts to it (AND NO THE SMARTEST PEOPLE AREN'T TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT EITHER--- WHAT A JIZZZZOKE), it's because for years those who know don't post and those who think they know do and what you get is a motley collection of partial horse crap.

So, I'll leave it at that - likely my last post forever in CTE-related threads.

Maybe the internet collection of 1000 years post-grad can figure out this tic-tac-toe puzzle.


Warm regards,
Ghost Ball Spidey
 
SWC
Whether you want us to understand CTE or not, don't play with us.

The 2nd picture is rotated so that the ctel is at 12:00.
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
SWC
Whether you want us to understand CTE or not, don't play with us.

The 2nd picture is rotated so that the ctel is at 12:00.
Click to expand...

I'm not playing with anyone. I'm just seeing who has the spacial perception to figure out the difference geometrically.

This is a good exercise, trust me. I'm not being belligerent nor am I acting out of line, I'm merely asking the group a question.

You're getting warmer; but, that results in certain geometric changes from picture 1. Once we get to the bottom of this, I have a separate group of pictures to post. But, I'm trying not to get ahead of myself. I want to be careful to do this in steps without me lecturing.

I hope Mike Page and Bob Jewett also post their ideas on the differences in the pics. If PJ weren't banned, I'd hope he'd participate too.

Dave
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not playing with anyone. I'm just seeing who has the spacial perception to figure out the difference geometrically.

This is a good exercise, trust me. I'm not being belligerent nor am I acting out of line, I'm merely asking the group a question.

You're getting warmer; but, that results in certain geometric changes from picture 1. Once we get to the bottom of this, I have a separate group of pictures to post. But, I'm trying not to get ahead of myself. I want to be careful to do this in steps without me lecturing.

I hope Mike Page and Bob Jewett also post their ideas on the differences in the pics. If PJ weren't banned, I'd hope he'd participate too.

Dave
Click to expand...

The first picture would be rather be ideal to make the shot,the second picture will need some help.
 
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