CTE/Pro One, the lesson.

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JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Before I get started, let me set the mood.

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about anything.

This thread is about my personal experience with CTE/Pro One and the lesson that I got from Stan Shuffett.

The reason for this thread is to shed some light on what I have gone through and experienced while using CTE/Pro One.

My posts may vacillate from one end of the spectrum to the other but my intent is to give you a very up close and personal perspective about pool in general.

For those of you that don't know me, I'm a slightly above average pool player who enjoys learning new things about pool.

While I don't plan to discuss how CTE/Pro One works, I am going to tell you some things that I have perceived about myself, not just since I started using CTE/Pro One but before that and maybe, just maybe you will see a little bit of you in me. Hopefully, it will enable you to have more fun in your journey, knowing what I see and what I experience.

I've played pool seriously for the last 15 years, trying to improve my game rather than my wallet. I used to gamble more than I do now but it was more hustling than it was gambling. It is and was what it was. Today, I am more likely to be seen practicing on a table by myself than to be in action. It's actually more important to me to practice than to make some extra dough at the expense of someone else who miscalculated my speed.

I've read a lot of books, seen a lot of instructional videos, watched a lot of matches and even done some pool commentary which really helps to sharpen your game, if you take it seriously.

I believe that all of the instructional videos have some benefit and you never know where the next nugget of information is going to come from.

I've had a problem for years with making balls consistently. I've missed a lot of important shots in my life and for a variety of different reasons, far too many to list here. However in recent years, my stroke has improved and I do practically everything better. My pre-shot routine is relatively solid. My game is improved by the teaching that I do with students at my local pool room. It seems to help some of the students and I enjoy helping others to improve their game.

CTE/Pro One is an aiming system that is different than a lot of aiming systems and has been surrounded with controversy for years. CTE was started by Hal Houle, who isn't that far off from being almost a hundred years old. He's more likely close to 90 by now but I didn't ask him about his age when I spoke to him recently.

Hal Houle has taught a lot of people CTE and one of the people who took it a lot more seriously than the rest of the people is a guy named Stan Shuffett. He is a rather famous pool instructor who teaches pool to professional pool players and amateurs alike. Stan's previous occupation was that of a teacher and he is a natural at teaching pool. Stan's skill level at pool is just under a professional's speed but he is subject to beat anyone in tournament play. Most of his time though is spent teaching his foundation course and now CTE/Pro One, his own refined and defined version of CTE.

Hal had shared some of his secrets of CTE with me in past years and I never really "got it" but enjoyed his company and talked to him for the last several years and occasionally listened to his stories about legends like Ralph Greenleaf and such. Hal's been around a LONG, long time and has lots of great stories. What Hal taught me about CTE was just enough to get me into trouble, so for the most part, I avoided discussing CTE with anyone. I always thought CTE was a GREAT ALIGNMENT SYSTEM because it forces you to get into a familiar and consistent position right off the bat.

I had never met one CTE player who could beat me at any game consistently and so I never really wanted to learn much more about CTE and I stayed away from the discussions for years. It didn't make any differnence to me if someone liked it or didn't like it. It wasn't that big a deal to me.

Stan offered to teach me CTE/Pro One, his own refined version of CTE and I jumped at the chance to learn about it. I had met Stan at tournaments in past years and enjoyed his company and his game. I also enjoyed hearing him talk modestly about his famous son, Landon Shuffett, a fantastic pool player in his own right and at only 16 years of age, he continues to impress players everywhere.

I'm going to list a few things that are misconstrued or things that are false or things that have been talked about but that need clarification. All of these things are just my personal perspective and not that of Stan Shuffett or anyone else; just myself.

First off I don't believe CTE/Pro One will make anyone a great player. It takes a lot more than an aiming system to make you a great player.

CTE/Pro One may or may not be a better aiming system. What makes a better aiming system varies from person to person, imo.

Many great players do not use CTE/Pro One.

Some great players do use CTE/Pro One.

I'm not sure who would benefit from using CTE/Pro One.

I'm not sure if a person will "get it" when they view the video or if they will need the lesson from Stan. Stan's version of CTE/Pro One is unique and different than what I have seen bandied about on websites and forums.

When I first learned CTE from Hal, it seemed that I was doing a lot of adjusting and sometimes, it just plain didn't work on certain shots. I didn't know why it didn't work on some and it worked so great on others but it is what it is. Anyway, after I took the lesson from Stan, I viewed his rough draft video of CTE/Pro One and I have to confess, I was so tired, I could barely keep my eyes open. It seemed like a good video and it seemed like the same material that was covered in the lesson from Stan but like I said, I was tired and it was Stan's first rough draft of the video and he wanted me to see it. I believe Stan plans on having the video completed in December and have to guess that he is hoping to have it ready for Christmas shoppers.

The things that I experience and the things that I perceive may not be the same things that others may see and experience with CTE/Pro One. This is just my perspective.

I've always had a little trouble, keeping my cue tip at the center of the cue ball and really never learned just how important it is to be able to hit the center of the cueball. I have missed a lot of shots just using a center ball hit on the cue ball.

Since using CTE/Pro One, I am continuously pivoting to center when I do the manual version of CTE/ProOne. ProOne is more of an automatic version of STAN's CTE which is different than what I have seen described by others who claim that they know what CTE is.

I've been at this for a week or two now and it seems to get easier to use it each time I go to the table. It wasn't always this easy as in class, I stumbled repeatedly but in all fairness, i stumbled because I wasn't aiming precisely while I used CTE/Pro One. There is a learning curve to CTE/Pro One and I think I am finally "getting it".

Some of the benefits of using CTE/Pro One are that I seem to have BETTER FOCUS. Also, I seem to hit the cue ball MORE ACCURATELY. I also seem to have MORE CONFIDENCE. I also seem to be playing better. I am pocketing balls better and I am playing better shape. Those who watch my game closely can attest to what I am saying. I probably still can't beat the GINGERBREAD MAN but I would be willing to take a shot at him. :wink: I also seem to be able to find a MORE ACCURATE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL.

I don't think CTE/Pro One is something that is relative to how old you are. I'm no spring chicken but I do play a lot of pool so it hasn't been hard for me to practice using CTE/Pro One. The same thing may be different with other people. I just don't know.

Also, just for the record, Stan has never asked me to promote his video or his CTE/Pro One lesson. I have no financial stake in Stan's video.

I believe that some people have made assumptions about how STan's CTE/Pro One works and they have made some rather embarassing and incorrect statements about CTE/Pro One. That will be apparent when the video comes out.

Truthfully, I don't care if the math can be proven that CTE/Pro One is the most accurate aiming system in the world OR NOT.

I am now POSITIVE that my game is improving and it is a direct result of learning CTE/Pro One, but some of the improvements can be traced to an increased amount of time on the table but that isn't the only reason.

I'm getting tired of typing. It's late and I need to sleep so I'll fill in some additional perspectives tomrrow or later on today I should say.

G'nite.
 
When the argumentative types jump in don't foget the red box in the lower left corner of the page can be used to report inappropriate posts.... not just posts that disagree with one's point of view but posts that have no purpose other than to antagonize or attack.

Thanks JoeyA for the thread, the post and the infomative posts in general.
 
I agree that almost every book and dvd I've bought that I have found something that I didn't know and it helped my game. I have used contact point to contact point for 60 years on probably 85% of my shots. On the other 15% I might use the ghost ball, Joe Tucker's Aiming system, or any of the half dozen or so systems I've leaned of the last few years.

I play on a tight BB with Ridgeback ralis. I can honestly say I very, very seldom miss a shot that I am focuced on. 95% of the few shots I miss are very tough shots the I got very poor position on. Johnnyt
 
Nice post Joey, thanks for sharing! I have wanted to take a lesson from Stan for the past few years, but the timing has just never been right for me.
 
When the argumentative types jump in don't foget the red box in the lower left corner of the page can be used to report inappropriate posts.... not just posts that disagree with one's point of view but posts that have no purpose other than to antagonize or attack.

Thanks JoeyA for the thread, the post and the infomative posts in general.

Jim:

Please be careful when stating something like the bolded part above. You may not realize it, but you're actually suggesting to people that they should "also" report people who merely disagree with a point of view, even if done respectfully. When you say "not just...," you're saying "also" -- but with the two items specified in reverse.

Perhaps you meant instead:

"When the argumentative types jump in don't foget the red box in the lower left corner of the page can be used to report inappropriate posts.... not posts that disagree with one's point of view but posts that have no purpose other than to antagonize or attack."​

Agree or no?
-Sean
 
Joey: Thank you for all the work you have done looking at Stan's system.

i do not know aiming systems at all. I have been using ghost ball which works all right but not always. I met and like Stan and his son Landon, and i was intrigued when I heard he was teaching a method to Stevie Moore and Gerda Hoffstedter, which might have some merit.

I did speak to Hal a few years back and have some diagrams from our conversations but I never went too far with it.

I already ordered my dvd and look forward to checking this system out.
I hope this thread can stay on point.
 
Thanks JoeyA I know that your sincerity about your passion is evident in your taking the time to write objectively. And also from your POV which I for one appreciate. Thank you
 
Glad to see you got the thread back up Joey. I look forward to hearing how you progress in the weeks and months to come. :thumbup:
 
I've awaken after several hours of sleep and read the responses.

Johnnyt, I think you are correct that if you focus, straight stroke and have hit a million balls in your lifetime, you should seldom miss.

I don't doubt for a minute that my increase in amount of time on the table has something to do with my new found "perceived" improvement in my game.

Whether it is an increase in accuracy, an increase in confidence or an increase in focus, I am positive that something is going on and it was NOT going on before the lesson with Stan.

I don't want anyone to think that CTE/Pro One is going to do any of these things for you. It isn't fair to assume that you are going to have all of these things. I've had FAR MORE than 10,000 hours of playing time on the pool table. That's the number that some scientists say it takes to become proficient at most sports.

Anyway, I'm writing all of this stuff as it comes to my mind, just so you can know what to look for or to help you down the road if you choose to learn Stan's CTE/Pro One aiming system. I doubt that I would have caught on to CTE/Pro One as well as I have without the one-on-one lesson from Stan. From what I remember about the first draft video, it DID contain ALL ofthe information that Stan shared with me in the lesson. I made a couple of suggestions to Stan about certain things that I felt he should stress (just because I had trouble with a couple of things). With him right there, I was able to question him until I was satisfied with his answers. His patience is a virtue I wish I had. :D

I KNOW that some people are going to have trouble with playing perfectly with CTE/Pro One. I DID, at first but no longer have any trouble using it exclusively. I'm playing every bit as good as I have ever played and may be playing just a bit better than I have ever played.

The reason people may have trouble with CTE/Pro One is:
This is an entirely different method of aiming.
The language for describing CTE/Pro One is NEW and unfamiliar.
The visual perspective is different. You aren't looking at the traditional contact point to contact point nor the ghostball.
In addition to the above, if you don't have a straight stroke, or if you move during your stroke or several dozen other things, you may have trouble with it as well. :D

The bottom line is that I have been grooving my CTE/Pro One and it is GREAT for one pocket. One pocket has it's own rhythm and that game "shifts" rhythm. One pocket players know what I'm talking about. One pocket is played generally at a slower pace than rotational games like 9 Ball or ten ball. Because I am still vacillating between manual CTE/Pro One and Pro One I find the manual CTE/Pro One works GREAT for one pocket. The truth is that other people see a few things that I am doing physically like the pivot but that's about all they can see, so they really don't know what I am doing. In fact, I would bet a dollar to a door nail that if people tried to figure out what I am doing without seeing the video or getting the lessons from Stan, it would screw their game up big time. :D

Also, for those of you who are wondering if you can make any adjustments while using CTE/Pro One..... Absolutely! Stan Shuffett's CTE/Pro One aiming system does not inhibit or prevent you from making any adjustments. In fact, there are a few shots where you have to make adjustments. Stan's CTE/Pro One has adjustments built in for these particular shots. Once again for those of you who say, it sounds complicated. It's not complicated. Once you learn the new language and the new visual perspective and the system it becomes VERY natural which brings me to the next thing I wanted to talk about. Stan's CTE/Pro One is at first a completely manual pivoting, conscious aiming system. Over time, I can see how it becomes the natural aiming system "Pro One" where your body is already used to the pivoting and Stan's CTE/Pro One system and you automatically place your bridge hand in the proper place and move your body is such a way as you are dead locked onto the shot (just like with any other aiming system that you utilize proficiently).

These things that I am sharing aren't the "secrets" of Stan's CTE/Pro One aiming system. They are MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES with CTE/Pro One and no one is putting words in my mouth or asking me to share this.

As the days become weeks, I am starting to believe that I may continue to use CTE/Pro One for the rest of my life. I didn't or couldn't be sure of that previously but as I become more familiar with the system, I am having consistent success with it. I won a small 8 ball tournament, racing to one, double elimination against a small field of tough eight ball players Friday night, pocketing right at $300. I can't credit CTE/Pro One for the win but I SURE felt confident using it and feel more so with each passing day.

This is a lot of "stuff" to type and write about and it is time consuming. I wanted those who are interested to know what is going on in my mind as I make this journey and hope that if you choose to follow this path, you will at least have some information that will help you down the road.

Also, I had a player who I was competing with recently who started some "crap" with me just to get me out of stroke and he was able to make me miss, even though I was using CTE/Pro One, so this aiming system or any other, won't make you invincible to "crap" being put in your way. HOWEVER, when I realized what he was doing, I went into what I call super manual CTE/Pro One and it helped me to get back on track (and diminsh the distraction) and I continued the spanking. :p

Hope you have enjoyed the journey so far. I will talk about using CTE/Pro One to bank with when I am inclined to type again.

It has been fun so far and my new found enthusiasm for playing the game I've spent my life doing isn't affected by my advanced age, Book Collector. :wink:

Best Regards,
JoeyA
 
Change your style! ;)

Nice writeup JoeyA. I've had no interest in these long aiming threads, for multiple reasons. Maybe, due to your overview, I'll invest some time in 'them'.

BTW, some posters have referenced the "report" box with the orange stripe in it, and state it's in the bottom left. Mine is in the upper right because I choose a different "Quick Style", which is the style with which the forum is displayed. It is SO much easier on the eyes and user friendly IMO. Some of you may want to try it and you can freely switch back and forth.

To choose your style, go to the very bottom-most of any forum page and click on the down arrow. Select "AZBilliards vB 3 style". Watch more colors come alive and leave that washed out "tech 2" style in the dust. You can thank me later. ;)
 
Nice writeup JoeyA. I've had no interest in these long aiming threads, for multiple reasons. Maybe, due to your overview, I'll invest some time in 'them'.

BTW, some posters have referenced the "report" box with the orange stripe in it, and state it's in the bottom left. Mine is in the upper right because I choose a different "Quick Style", which is the style with which the forum is displayed. It is SO much easier on the eyes and user friendly IMO. Some of you may want to try it and you can freely switch back and forth.

To choose your style, go to the very bottom-most of any forum page and click on the down arrow. Select "AZBilliards vB 3 style". Watch more colors come alive and leave that washed out "tech 2" style in the dust. You can thank me later. ;)

WOW. That does change the scenery. I'm not sure but the new change might go well with CTE/Pro One. LOL Thanks for the change up. I'll see if I can get used to it. Intially, it kind of "brightened" up the layout.
Thanks,
 
To choose your style, go to the very bottom-most of any forum page and click on the down arrow. Select "AZBilliards vB 3 style". Watch more colors come alive and leave that washed out "tech 2" style in the dust. You can thank me later. ;)

holy crap! That looks MUCH better!

Thanks for the tip!

BTW, nice write-up JoeyA. While I don't know when I'll actually try to tackle CTE/ProOne (something about needing a repeatable good stroke, which I may someday aquire, heh) I enjoy reading about it. I'll probably grab the DVD sometime after the Holidays, or perhaps as a gift to myself. Either way, please continue to share your experiences with us.
 
Joey

Good job reclaiming your thread.

I recently took a lesson on Same Aim, RandyG's version of CTE and I am working it into my game. I have also ordered Stan's Pro One DVD. I'd be happy to compare notes with you if you like.
 
Nice writeup JoeyA. I've had no interest in these long aiming threads, for multiple reasons. Maybe, due to your overview, I'll invest some time in 'them'.

BTW, some posters have referenced the "report" box with the orange stripe in it, and state it's in the bottom left. Mine is in the upper right because I choose a different "Quick Style", which is the style with which the forum is displayed. It is SO much easier on the eyes and user friendly IMO. Some of you may want to try it and you can freely switch back and forth.

To choose your style, go to the very bottom-most of any forum page and click on the down arrow. Select "AZBilliards vB 3 style". Watch more colors come alive and leave that washed out "tech 2" style in the dust. You can thank me later. ;)

Thanks kool kat :thumbup:
 
Hey Joey, great write up ! I was lucky enough to take a two day lesson from Stan a few years ago, before CTE/Pro One. Later, Stan was generous enough to offer to give me the basics of Pro One over the phone. I didn't take him up on it but the tools he did give me are the foundation of my practice routine now. The same drills I saw Stevie Moore doing when he played on TAR.

I just ordered the DVD from Stan as a result of reading your post. I don't play much anymore but things like this and a new cue coming help to inspire me to play. Thanks...Tom
 
My 2 Cents on CTE

As you may gather from my handle (Gramps) I am a wonderful 62 years young and have been around pool for about the last 50 years. I have been lucky enough to have been around and seen most of the great masters of the game from Lassiter to Efren. I even played and was beaten by Johnny Archer when he was only 16 in a tournament. I've seen so many arguments on and about pool from who is the greatest players are or were to what's the best rules to play 9 ball with and weather jump cues should be legal or not. But to this day, I have not seen so much controversy as I've seen lately over something such as where should I hit this ball or as we are calling it, a aiming system.

A little background here. Years ago I sold a business in Charlotte, NC and decided to open or, as it turned out, buy a pool room in North Georgia. I was in my mid 30's at the time and felt like I was probably playing my best pool ever. Then at my wife's request, sold the pool room and went into another line of work for about the next twenty years. After getting a little tired of the working 14 hours a day, we decided to close shop and open another pool room. It didn't take long to find out that I hadn't forgotten what I knew about playing the game, but it was going to take a while to get the old stroke back. I knew there was just one small something missing from my stroke and didn't know exactly what it was. Being a friend of Stevie Moore and having talked to him a little, he suggested I contact Stan Shuffet and get with him for a refresher. I talked it over with my wife and unknown to me at the time, she contacted Stan and arranged a two day visit with him at his home as a Christmas gift to me.

OK, here I am a (at the time) a 58 year old man that thought I knew all there was to know about pool, getting ready to go take a pool lesson. So, I packed my bag and cue case and headed off to Kentucky. I met with Stan on the morning of the first day and told him that I thought that I just might have a small problem with my stroke. In a matter of about the next ten minutes, Stan had spotted my problem and had me hitting balls like I was 30 years old again. Now here I was, my only problem I thought I had was finally fixed, now what was I possibly going to do or learn in the next day and a half ? We went over some other basic fundamentals and position plays when Stan finally brought up aiming methods.

We went over a few aiming types starting with ghost ball, quarter ball, something Stan called Shis-Ka-Bob and finally got around to CTE (Center to Edge). At the time, that was the only name he had for CTE, know referred to as CTE / Pro One aiming system. We spent the most time on this new (to me) CTE and I have to admit, I was not getting it right away. Stan told me that this was not something that everyone took to right away and that it might take some time to get used to. Basically, he said, if it doesn't look right, then it probably isn't right. I was getting confused on, center of what to the edge of what ? And then there was a shift involved that I was totally confused about. Stan said, tomorrow, I'll have Landon (his at the time 14 year old son) come in and run a few racks of 9 ball and explain what aiming method he is using on each shot. I said sure, have your barely teen age son come in and run a few racks. I didn't actually say that out loud but was thinking it in my mind and very sarcastically I might add too. I should add that at that time, Stan did not have any written material or video available on the CTE system and was only explaining the system verbally.

The next day came and after a night of restless thinking about this new aiming thing in my motel room I headed back to Stan's for day two. Shortly after getting started, Landon came into the pool room where Stan gives his lessons and we racked up some 9 ball. Landon broke the balls and proceeded, just as Stan had said the day before, to run several racks and telling me with each shot what aiming system he was using for that particular shot. Now this got me to thinking. On eight different shots after making a ball on the break, Landon was not using the same aiming system on every shot but what seemed to be the best system for a particular shot. Most of the time he was either using the CTE or quarter ball system. And the longer and more difficult the shot was, he most often chose the CTE method.

I spent another night in Kentucky and headed home the next morning with about a half days drive ahead of me and was thinking most of the way about CTE. Was I losing my sanity ? Was I to old to learn new tricks ? I finally resigned myself to what Stan had told me in the lesson that it would not come to me until I kept trying it out and sooner or later, it would finally come to me.

When I got home I talked to a friend of mine that had taken Stan's course a month or so earlier and asked him if he understood CTE and he said, "if you ever get it, please explain it to me". Well, about a month or so later, I was just by myself in the poolroom and was practicing a few long difficult shots and stood up from the shot and it was like someone had turned on a light inside my head. There it was ! I now understand CTE. Stan was right ! It came to me like a bolt of lightning out of the sky. I got a pad and pen and wrote down a few notes. Then I got out my camera and took a few pictures of the shot I was looking at so I could make a later document that I could pass on to Stan on how I finally saw the shot.

I saw Stan and Landon at a tournament several months later and gave Stan the document I had written on the subject in hopes that there might be something in it that might help better explain how the system works. He thanked me and said it might help. I don't know if any of the information I gave him was helpful or not, but I have been able to explain it to some other players a lot easier now.

In conclusion, I just want to say that all aiming systems are not perfect for every shot as Landon demonstrated to me. Just as not all aiming systems are all right for every person using them. No matter what system you use, you still have to execute the shot properly or you will still miss. And as Joey has pointed out, this system has actually made me look more closely at how I do aim and has improved my shot making by a large percentage. At least its better to aim at those difficult shots and have a chance at making it and running out than it is to just swing, miss, and let the person your playing run out.
 
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I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about anything.
OK. Me too.

I've played pool seriously for the last 15 years
I didn't know this, and it surprises me. That's exactly the amount of time that I've played regularly - I thought you had been at it longer than me.

I've always had a little trouble, keeping my cue tip at the center of the cue ball and really never learned just how important it is to be able to hit the center of the cueball. I have missed a lot of shots just using a center ball hit on the cue ball.
...

Some of the benefits of using CTE/Pro One are that I seem to have BETTER FOCUS. Also, I seem to hit the cue ball MORE ACCURATELY. I also seem to have MORE CONFIDENCE.

...

I also seem to be able to find a MORE ACCURATE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL

...

I believe that some people have made assumptions about how STan's CTE/Pro One works and they have made some rather embarassing and incorrect statements about CTE/Pro One.
I won't argue with your statement; I'll just point out that the benefits you list above are also acknowledged by those same people.

The important thing is that they're benefits that any pool player could use, including me, and if CTE is your preferred way of getting them then it's certainly valuable.

Nice informative post, Joey, and good reading too.

pj
chgo
 
Has anybody seen the timed 3C shot that Mercedes Gonzales makes in this video (at about 1:35)?

OMG!!

pj
chgo

Pretty sweet shot and she made it on the first attempt.

I intentionally edited the video to show that it was the first attempt even if it meant having Dieckman in the clip.

Steve

ps
sorry to hijack your thread Joey :sorry:
 
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