cue finishing

D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
when a cue leaves the shop with a finish second to none,but comes back with raised places after some 2 years or so
what is the probable cause?

Is it necessary to put sealer on before spraying?or does the finish itself provide all the sealing necessary?

Dean
 
A refinish does not always mean that you have to sand the cue down to bare wood. On the contrary sand as little as posible. If a cue has a few dings & scratches, you can lightly sand & use the new finish to fill in the damaged areas. When you wet sand & polish you will have RESTORED the original look to the cue. After all that is what the owner wants. This is especially true if the cue has a STAINED coloring UNDER the clearcoat...JER
 
deanoc said:
when a cue leaves the shop with a finish second to none,but comes back with raised places after some 2 years or so
what is the probable cause?

Is it necessary to put sealer on before spraying?or does the finish itself provide all the sealing necessary?

Dean
Click to expand...


It sounds to me like the finish has come loose from the wood. This can be caused by a numbers of things, it can be caused by the woods surface not being prepared for finish properly. First on a final finish sanding I personally use 220 grit or below, and then I wipe the wood down with Acetone to remove any possible chemical or adhesive cross contamination. Next I apply an epoxy sealer after the finish sanding,and then sand the Epoxy smooth with 220. Last, or about 24 hour's after the Epoxy sealer I start to apply finish.

However, the woods preparation is not the only problem that can create problems with the finish that you are describing, although in many cases that is where problems start. If a cue is exposed to a non-temperature controlled environment or an environment with high humidity or high moisture these problems can also happen but I do not think they are very common.

JIMO
 
I've seen alot of cues with raised rings caused by people leaving their cues in the car in the summer time . Then these people think it's the cuemaker's fault . Sometimes , depending on the type of finish , ultra violet especially , the finish does not bond and lifts , especially when left in a 140 degree car . The temp variance destroys wood ... Take care of your cues , pelicans ...:cool:;)
 
Define "raised places".
Are you talking about the finish around metal ring work or when you site a light line down the cue does it looks like something you could ski on?
 
I have to laugh... How long was it before the final sand and polish aftere the finish was applied? Auto clear force dried or not continues to move and outgas for a long time after it is applied. Sanded smooth does not mean it won't stay smooth or for that matter if the finish is thicker in one place or another it will shrink more or less.. It is what auto clear does. So I guess the best question is what kind of finish is it? UV, auto, epoxy, CA, waterbase?

Just more ramblings by an idiot that don't know jack.

John
 
Bill the Cat said:
If you use too fine a grit on your final sand, the finish may not bond securely to the very fine surface.
Click to expand...

Really, care to explain why? I asked the original question because I knew this was what the poster meant, but it is in fact wrong.

Finish adheres to wood, or anything else for that matter, by a chemical bond. it does not adhere because of a mechanical process. It is a myth that if you use too fine a grit it will not adhere properly. A lot of auto body guys believe the same thing but it's not true.

If the work is properly prepared for the finish it doesn't matter how smooth it is.
 
Ok

Monstermash said:
Really, care to explain why? I asked the original question because I knew this was what the poster meant, but it is in fact wrong.

Finish adheres to wood, or anything else for that matter, by a chemical bond. it does not adhere because of a mechanical process. It is a myth that if you use too fine a grit it will not adhere properly. A lot of auto body guys believe the same thing but it's not true.

If the work is properly prepared for the finish it doesn't matter how smooth it is.
Click to expand...

Next time just add a note that states you REALLY don't want to hear anyones opinion. Just state your own.
 
Bill the Cat said:
Next time just add a note that states you REALLY don't want to hear anyones opinion. Just state your own.
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I'm sorry you feel that way. Were not talking about an opinion. We're talking about fact which is completely different. If it were just an opinion on what works and what doesn't then we could discuss forever.
 
Monstermash said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. Were not talking about an opinion. We're talking about fact which is completely different. If it were just an opinion on what works and what doesn't then we could discuss forever.
Click to expand...

Nobody stated that they were exclusively reffering to automotive clear coat either! Also, how can you say its not an opinion? Do you have compatability and adhesion testing documentation for for all automotive clearcoats when it comes to putting it on pool cues?
 
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Monstermash said:
Really, care to explain why? I asked the original question because I knew this was what the poster meant, but it is in fact wrong.

Finish adheres to wood, or anything else for that matter, by a chemical bond. it does not adhere because of a mechanical process. It is a myth that if you use too fine a grit it will not adhere properly. A lot of auto body guys believe the same thing but it's not true.

If the work is properly prepared for the finish it doesn't matter how smooth it is.
Click to expand...

I believe you are greatly mistaken in your assumption. If you feel it is fact then please give a couple of credible links to confirm your statement. Your first assumption and what you base your synopsis on is basically incorrect as finish, just like most other glues work through the use of a mechanical bond, not just chemical.

Some substrates can be smoother and still allow some finishes to adhere. Some finishes will stick better to coarser substrates and some finishes will only stick to coarser substrates.
Try spraying some UV finish on a substrate that has been sanded with papers 400 grit or finer and see how you like it. If the smoothness of the substrate is immaterial, why is it that the manufacturers of some finishes state right on the can not to use fine paper. Most UV finishes state not to use finer than 220 grit.

Dick
 
If adhesion is not an issue with automotive finishes, just a chemical bond, why do they make products that help the finish stick to plastic bumpers? If the chemical bond was so perfect these products would not be needed, on a car bumper or on phenolic collars on a pool cue.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
 
Monstermash said:
Really, care to explain why? I asked the original question because I knew this was what the poster meant, but it is in fact wrong.

Finish adheres to wood, or anything else for that matter, by a chemical bond. it does not adhere because of a mechanical process. It is a myth that if you use too fine a grit it will not adhere properly. A lot of auto body guys believe the same thing but it's not true.

If the work is properly prepared for the finish it doesn't matter how smooth it is.
Click to expand...

Would you be willing to go out to your shop & snap some pics of the cues you build & show how you finish them? Visual reference is priceless and really goes a long way in helping me understand things. I'm always eager to learn from other cue makers' experience & knowledge base. I mean, nobody knows my job like those who share my job, right? Much appreciated. :help::poke:
 
qbilder said:
Would you be willing to go out to your shop & snap some pics of the cues you build & show how you finish them? Visual reference is priceless and really goes a long way in helping me understand things. I'm always eager to learn from other cue makers' experience & knowledge base. I mean, nobody knows my job like those who share my job, right? Much appreciated. :help::poke:
Click to expand...
I'd like to see 'em too.
Screw all this sanding to make sure epoxy doesn't peel off the wood when the cue gets banged. Or heaven forbid, if it peels off while chucked up .
Hell, roughing up wood so epoxy has something to grab might be all ganja smoke.
 
I guess perhaps an interesting twist could be to ask "What is the benefit to sanding any finer than 220 grit before finishing anyway?" It seems to me that, imo, 220 works fine and if it does assist in finish adhesion then that's a great plus. If not, nothing lost. Right?
 
qbilder said:
Would you be willing to go out to your shop & snap some pics of the cues you build & show how you finish them? Visual reference is priceless and really goes a long way in helping me understand things. I'm always eager to learn from other cue makers' experience & knowledge base. I mean, nobody knows my job like those who share my job, right? Much appreciated. :help::poke:
Click to expand...

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues, I do custom paint on Ducatis. Regardless, it matters not what the product is your finishing. Paint/clear bonds to the work by a chemical process. What would be the logic of it bonding better to a rougher surface than a smooth one? Would it be so it wouldn't slide off? Lol.
While it is true that cues will sometimes be exposed to some abuse, it's nothing like the abuse a motorcycle gets. Think of all the sand that gets blasted against the finish while riding or the effects of acid rain.
Unless the surface wasn't prepared correctly, the finish on a cue should last a lifetime if applied properly. Even with all the abuse a motorcycle gets, I have yet to have any issues with a finish lifting unless something physically hit the surface.
No offense Eric, but your designs lend themselves very well to final sanding with 600 grit. Not that there is anything wrong with the designs but I would like to see your results if you were using some nice silver rings or inlays if you did a final sand with 600 before the finish was applied. You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.
 
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