cue finishing

[63Kcode]

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues, I do custom paint on Ducatis. Regardless, it matters not what the product is your finishing. Paint/clear bonds to the work by a chemical process. What would be the logic of it bonding better to a rougher surface than a smooth one? Would it be so it wouldn't slide off? Lol.
While it is true that cues will sometimes be exposed to some abuse, it's nothing like the abuse a motorcycle gets. Think of all the sand that gets blasted against the finish while riding or the effects of acid rain.
Unless the surface wasn't prepared correctly, the finish on a cue should last a lifetime if applied properly. Even with all the abuse a motorcycle gets, I have yet to have any issues with a finish lifting unless something physically hit the surface.
No offense Eric, but your designs lend themselves very well to final sanding with 600 grit. Not that there is anything wrong with the designs but I would like to see your results if you were using some nice silver rings or inlays if you did a final sand with 600 before the finish was applied. You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.

Having spent years painting Peterbilt trucks and muscle cars and now building cues. I can tell you what works on one is not what is best for the other. In my limited cuebuilding experance, I can tell you that sanding wood with anything finer that 220 will cause problems in my cues. The main one being. The fine dust from sanding with to fine a paper will get into the pores of the wood and not come out.

Larry

 

[scdiveteam]

Having spent years painting Peterbilt trucks and muscle cars and now building cues. I can tell you what works on one is not what is best for the other. In my limited cuebuilding experance, I can tell you that sanding wood with anything finer that 220 will cause problems in my cues. The main one being. The fine dust from sanding with to fine a paper will get into the pores of the wood and not come out.

Larry

100 psi air while sanding helps!

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues, I do custom paint on Ducatis. Regardless, it matters not what the product is your finishing. Paint/clear bonds to the work by a chemical process. What would be the logic of it bonding better to a rougher surface than a smooth one? Would it be so it wouldn't slide off? Lol.
While it is true that cues will sometimes be exposed to some abuse, it's nothing like the abuse a motorcycle gets. Think of all the sand that gets blasted against the finish while riding or the effects of acid rain.
Unless the surface wasn't prepared correctly, the finish on a cue should last a lifetime if applied properly. Even with all the abuse a motorcycle gets, I have yet to have any issues with a finish lifting unless something physically hit the surface.
No offense Eric, but your designs lend themselves very well to final sanding with 600 grit. Not that there is anything wrong with the designs but I would like to see your results if you were using some nice silver rings or inlays if you did a final sand with 600 before the finish was applied. You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues

Rules for posting in "Ask the Cuemaker" - 12-16-2009, 04:23 AM
This Forum is called Ask the Cuemaker.

The following rules are put in place to make this forum a positive informative place where anyone can ask the quality cuemakers who frequent our forum questions.

Eddie, is that you again?

 

[MVPCues]

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues, I do custom paint on Ducatis. Regardless, it matters not what the product is your finishing. Paint/clear bonds to the work by a chemical process. What would be the logic of it bonding better to a rougher surface than a smooth one? Would it be so it wouldn't slide off? Lol.
While it is true that cues will sometimes be exposed to some abuse, it's nothing like the abuse a motorcycle gets. Think of all the sand that gets blasted against the finish while riding or the effects of acid rain.
Unless the surface wasn't prepared correctly, the finish on a cue should last a lifetime if applied properly. Even with all the abuse a motorcycle gets, I have yet to have any issues with a finish lifting unless something physically hit the surface.
No offense Eric, but your designs lend themselves very well to final sanding with 600 grit. Not that there is anything wrong with the designs but I would like to see your results if you were using some nice silver rings or inlays if you did a final sand with 600 before the finish was applied. You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.

How many motorcycles have you built out of wood?

Are you saying the bonding actions of paint and clear is exactly the same for metals as it is for wood? Wood contains oils, can give off gases, and can take on and shed moisture. You are saying none of that matters and your are qualified to tell cuemakers the finish they use behaves exactly the same way on wood that it does on your motorcycles because you paint motorcycles?

Kelly

 

[KJ Cues]

You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.

Which is EXACTLY why the finish will lift from them.
Auto-clear needs a grit surface to 'bite' into.
Polished rings, not so much.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.
They're not sanded to get to that polished look.
You can there in two more ways than sanding.

 

[JoeyInCali]

How many motorcycles have you built out of wood?

Are you saying the bonding actions of paint and clear is exactly the same for metals as it is for wood? Wood contains oils, can give off gases, and can take on and shed moisture. You are saying none of that matters and your are qualified to tell cuemakers the finish they use behaves exactly the same way on wood that it does on your motorcycles because you paint motorcycles?

Kelly

I'm sure you can BAKE the finish on your cues too.

 

[Monstermash]

How many motorcycles have you built out of wood?

Are you saying the bonding actions of paint and clear is exactly the same for metals as it is for wood? Wood contains oils, can give off gases, and can take on and shed moisture. You are saying none of that matters and your are qualified to tell cuemakers the finish they use behaves exactly the same way on wood that it does on your motorcycles because you paint motorcycles?

Kelly

I will concede that applying finish to wood is very different and has it's own challenges. I really didn't mean to start a huge debate about all the differences between the two. My only point was that paint/clear bonds via a chemical process. The only exception I could think of would be that using a courser grip would allow for more surface area to allow the finish to adhere.

 

[Bill the Cat]

......The only exception I could think of would be that using a courser grip would allow for more surface area to allow the finish to adhere.

Bingo!!!!!!!! Consequently, better adhesion.

 

[Monstermash]

If adhesion is not an issue with automotive finishes, just a chemical bond, why do they make products that help the finish stick to plastic bumpers? If the chemical bond was so perfect these products would not be needed, on a car bumper or on phenolic collars on a pool cue.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com

Hey Bob,

That's and interesting question. Hear's the simple answer to the bumper question.

Plastic vehicle bumpers are designed to flex for up to a 5 mph impact and as such are made from a "different" plastic that would normally be found on a vehicle. Therefor, it's not the adhesion that's is a problem per se, but more of making it flexible. You can shoot regular paint on the bumpers without any issues IF there was to be no temp/humidity changes. You could conceivably paint a plastic bumper and store it in a dry temp controlled room and there would never be a problem with the finish. But because of the plastic. That is used in the modern bumpers, it tends to expand and contract quite a bit under different temp and humidity which is why an adhesion promotor is used when painting bumpers or anything plastic.
Additionally, standard automotive paint isn't designed to be used on plastic without an adhesion promotor. To give you an analogy, you wouldn't use an epoxy designed to use on wood to try and bond two pieces of steel together would you? Of course not, because the product is not designed for that use just as auto paint is not designed to adhere to untreated plastic.

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Most of finishes I have observed lifting involves UV finishes, especially with woods that have a high oil content like cocobolo ect.

I experimented with UV and went back to polyurethane high solids automotive. I also believe Polyurethane Automotive buffs better with a deeper and higher luster.

Rick

 

[qbilder]

I would be more than happy to show you some photos of my work. However, I don't build cues, I do custom paint on Ducatis. Regardless, it matters not what the product is your finishing. Paint/clear bonds to the work by a chemical process. What would be the logic of it bonding better to a rougher surface than a smooth one? Would it be so it wouldn't slide off? Lol.
While it is true that cues will sometimes be exposed to some abuse, it's nothing like the abuse a motorcycle gets. Think of all the sand that gets blasted against the finish while riding or the effects of acid rain.
Unless the surface wasn't prepared correctly, the finish on a cue should last a lifetime if applied properly. Even with all the abuse a motorcycle gets, I have yet to have any issues with a finish lifting unless something physically hit the surface.
No offense Eric, but your designs lend themselves very well to final sanding with 600 grit. Not that there is anything wrong with the designs but I would like to see your results if you were using some nice silver rings or inlays if you did a final sand with 600 before the finish was applied. You can look at some cue makers work that use silver rings and they have a dull appearance to them while others look bright/polished. How do you think they get that polished look? It's done by sanding them with a very find grit before the finish is applied.

Oh, you're not a cue maker? Then why are you answering questions in the "Ask the cuemaker" forum?

Oh, and next time we meet in person, at least have the balls to say to me what you feel so urged to say about me behind my back. You don't have to pretend anymore. I know what you've said. Do I seem like i'm afraid of saying anything to you? Nope. So at least have the same common decency & quit the backstabbing trash talk. Makes you look childish & cowardly. You had me face to face to say anything that was on your mind. You instead chose to smile & offer a handshake, only to almost immediately begin talking trash about me to other people. Did you really think at least some of those people wouldn't tell me? Or even more that I wouldn't call you out on it? Just like with cues, looks like you don't know half the crap you think you do.

 

[Monstermash]

Bingo!!!!!!!! Consequently, better adhesion.

But the ten million dollar question is..... Is it really necessary? Or would the cue look better in the end with a smoother surface before the finish was applied.

 

[Monstermash]

Oh, you're not a cue maker? Then why are you answering questions in the "Ask the cuemaker" forum?

Oh, and next time we meet in person, at least have the balls to say to me what you feel so urged to say about me behind my back. You don't have to pretend anymore. I know what you've said. Do I seem like i'm afraid of saying anything to you? Nope. So at least have the same common decency & quit the backstabbing trash talk. Makes you look childish & cowardly. You had me face to face to say anything that was on your mind. You instead chose to smile & offer a handshake, only to almost immediately begin talking trash about me to other people. Did you really think at least some of those people wouldn't tell me? Or even more that I wouldn't call you out on it? Just like with cues, looks like you don't know half the crap you think you do.

Unlike you, I was trying to be polite. Believe me, if you knew me you would know I have no issues saying anything to anyone. The reason I didn't say what I felt is because based on your track record here for not keeping your trap shut we probably would have had an argument and I didn't want to get thrown out of show.

 

[Monstermash]

Oh, you're not a cue maker? Then why are you answering questions in the "Ask the cuemaker" forum?

Oh, and next time we meet in person, at least have the balls to say to me what you feel so urged to say about me behind my back. You don't have to pretend anymore. I know what you've said. Do I seem like i'm afraid of saying anything to you? Nope. So at least have the same common decency & quit the backstabbing trash talk. Makes you look childish & cowardly. You had me face to face to say anything that was on your mind. You instead chose to smile & offer a handshake, only to almost immediately begin talking trash about me to other people. Did you really think at least some of those people wouldn't tell me? Or even more that I wouldn't call you out on it? Just like with cues, looks like you don't know half the crap you think you do.

Oh, and Since you don't check them I thought I would let you know that I sent you one.

 

[JoeyInCali]

But the ten million dollar question is..... Is it really necessary? Or would the cue look better in the end with a smoother surface before the finish was applied.

Why would it look better ?
The first coat or coats settle on that sanded surface. Another coat is applied after the previous one flashes.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

But the ten million dollar question is..... Is it really necessary? Or would the cue look better in the end with a smoother surface before the finish was applied.

I'm sure you are a fine artist on metal and bondo with the auto style finishes and paints you use. Only until you have walked 10 years in the shoes of someone attempting to apply a product to a porous surface that was created for a non-porous application will you understand fully.

Yes it is necessary and no there is very little if any discernible difference in the grits being used as to what the finished product will look like when being viewed.
There are of course exceptions to the rule.....ie...40 grit vs. 320.

...this of course is only the opinion of one persons trials and tribulations of spraying auto clear on a wood substrate for over 10 years.

 

[qbilder]

Oh, and Since you don't check them I thought I would let you know that I sent you one.

You mean this one?

The next time we meet feel free to talk shit to me like you do to others here and see what happens. You don't know me so let me give you some advice, try and be polite like I did or you may not like the result. I don't put up with other people's bullshit so I'm sure as hell not going to take shit from you. The difference is I don't attack people unprovoked like you. The reason didn't say anything to you is because I was trying to avoid confrontation. Everything I've said about you is reaction from things you've said and I'm entitled to my opinion. Additionally, I'm not the only one who thinks your an asshole. Every time I post something about you I get ten emails from other members agreeing with me. I have about 8-9 positive reps just from post about you. Why don't you just take a step back and stop treating people like shit?

My problem with you is your piss poor attitude and that you feel it's ok to call other people names for no reason. I have news for you, your not God's gift to cue making. In fact everything you make in ****ing boring. I'm sure I could make the same thing with a Porper lathe in my basement.

And what was the deal with you attacking Al Bautista? Do you feel threatened that he can make something similar to you but for 1/3 the money?

I'm normally against posting private messages in public but this one is deserving. Not only did you threaten me, but you actually have attempted insult on several levels. How pathetic are you to inject yourself into somebody else's issues as if you are Judge Judy? If I didn't know better, i'd say it looks like you have a mega man crush on me. It's ok, just don't act on it. But for real this obsession is getting creepy. Are you retarded? Rep points? Really? Are you not a grown man? You really feel so insecure about yourself that you need support from your I-friends to balls up enough to speak out? Even then it was in secret. I mean really, if you are going to threaten me and want me to take you seriously then you really gotta change a few things about yourself, Nancy. If you don't like my attitude & the way I talk straight, then put me on your ignore list. Pretty simple stuff. Since you are so eager to offer advice to me, let me offer some to you. Grow up, get a life, get some self esteem so you don't need community support, and quit taking internet forums so seriously. For real, you're wasting your life away if you actually take any of this to heart. It's pool cues, wooden toys for grown ups. You need some serious perspective.

 

[JCIN]

Damn I gotta start reading the cue makers forum more. This shit is better than NPR by a long shot.

I just want to add that Eric and Dave are completely clueless about what they are talking about. In reality a long waiting list of customers willing to pay thousands of dollars for a cue requires only a new pair of gloves or a witty personality. All that talk of experience and skill is a bunch of horse hooey. So all noobs should only listen to the guys who work with sheet metal, house siding or silky fabrics for a living.

 

[CMD]

Damn I gotta start reading the cue makers forum more. This shit is better than NPR by a long shot.

No kidding! I read some posts if the subject looks interesting. The only reason I read this one was because you were the last to post and you usually make funny comments.



<~~~~~~knows little about cue making but knows who NOT to get a cue from