cue? investment?

X

XPLAYHARDX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well am I alone or has the rest of the world figured out that paying big dollars for cues is slowly becoming a thing of the past. I have been watching cues on this site as well as ebay and other cue selling sites and it seems to me that the market has become so stagnet that someone who owns cues is either stuck with them or willing to drop the price as to where someone is willing to part with the $$
I started thinking like this recently after seeing so many cues which I thought were priced right never sell.
I'm just wondering if others have these thoughts and would like their imput on the subject as well.
 
I completely disagree. Look at this year's Cue of the Year thread... the biggest and best group of cues ever, and there were many that were not even entered.

The ICCS had a ton of huge cues sold. I saw several big cues delivered at the DCC this weekend.

I saw your comment on the Tasc cue in the WFS section... although I agree the price was great, I do not believe it was $2K undervalued.
 
for a few years it was hard to make a mistake buying cues, now that there are so many cue makers, the cue makers seem to be getting all the $$$, which is cool for them in the short run.

SW cues for years were sold by SW for less than the street price and they ended up with a 10+yr waiting list-not a bad plan for a long term biz model. quick nickel or slow dime theory.


here is what scares me look at the average age of the collectors with $100,000 or more in cues, 80% are in their 60's. What happens when they start getting medical problems and what not in 10-15 years, there will be more collections for sale that ever. and with the cnc guys punching out cues fast as can be, pool not on the upswing. it dont look good to me.

the good old days of easy cue $$$ are gone, having said that i'm ok with what i own, but aint adding much.

eric
 
hey fats...

Fatboy said:
for a few years it was hard to make a mistake buying cues, now that there are so many cue makers, the cue makers seem to be getting all the $$$, which is cool for them in the short run.

SW cues for years were sold by SW for less than the street price and they ended up with a 10+yr waiting list-not a bad plan for a long term biz model. quick nickel or slow dime theory.


here is what scares me look at the average age of the collectors with $100,000 or more in cues, 80% are in their 60's. What happens when they start getting medical problems and what not in 10-15 years, there will be more collections for sale that ever. and with the cnc guys punching out cues fast as can be, pool not on the upswing. it dont look good to me.

the good old days of easy cue $$$ are gone, having said that i'm ok with what i own, but aint adding much.

eric
Click to expand...

maybe i am wrong, but for me i think now is a great time to be a buyer

prices are tight while so many of us want to have a chance with new cues, and great cues can be bought at lower prices [right?]

actually, i may sell a few to fund some that i think will be better investments

just my opinion

hope you are well, all the best,
smokey
 
XPLAYHARDX said:
Well am I alone or has the rest of the world figured out that paying big dollars for cues is slowly becoming a thing of the past. I have been watching cues on this site as well as ebay and other cue selling sites and it seems to me that the market has become so stagnet that someone who owns cues is either stuck with them or willing to drop the price as to where someone is willing to part with the $$
I started thinking like this recently after seeing so many cues which I thought were priced right never sell.
I'm just wondering if others have these thoughts and would like their imput on the subject as well.
Click to expand...

My experience (in general) with new USA made custom cues is that the international demand seems to be growing and there are still plenty of USA buyers that can afford the toys they want---if you have what they want when they want it! While I enjoy AZB, it only represents a fraction of the cue buying public.

Martin

Martin
 
cues sales

from nov to feb 1st is always slow.
yesterday I sold 3 custom cues and could of sold more if I had the right wood.
selling cues seems very seasonal. but cue sales are about the same.
my local market helps alot.

MMike
 
Investment..

CD, Stocks, auto andor any collectible are risky..
They all go up and down..
I used to buy/sell Cutlass / Olds parts.. I bought in the winter and sold it in the spring plus they had very little aftermarket..
Used cars were better selling for the cheaper cars that people could do cash and be done.. I had a harder time with upper end models.. Now it is all about great MPG and of course A/C
Comics... it depends what becomes hot again (trending), Batman I made a ton of profit off of when it became a movie..( I got lucky, i just had them personally)...
Its all about timing.. I would say the same on cues.. You buy the next cue that gets known... If they ever make another movie that hits the screen hot then guess what?!?!? You will make money off of what you sell.. Fast and Furious did a little for Year ONE muscle car stuff but the movie was more pushed for the Imports...
Maybe a good Color Part 2? With a good story line, name drop a few cues in the movie and... Bam! Heck right now Archery is kicking with the kids due to the Hunger Games (movie) and Revolution (show).. It called Marketing.. If Pool would market with Hollywood, you would sell more stuff because it would be brought to the top of peoples minds of things to do, and it being cool again.. Remember Urban Cowboy? (It became cool to dress cowboyish).. Of course I never wanted the Joss COM cue until now because of the Move but that is becasue I try to resist being a lemming.. and also never looked at one until a few months back either.. :)
Now you can correct me on this but I would think cues sell somewhere in the fall and then slacks off due to indoor team sports.. I know spring and summer time was awful for pool when I played alot.

Unless you pick up a great deal .. for flipping the cue I would say investment is a long term thing..:cool:
 
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I wouldn't include China in the mix of bad market...also I wouldn't judge the cue market solely on AZ's for sale section.

It's still as tough to get a Szam, Searing, Showman or Southwest...when the price is right things do sell.
I would just say that buyers are a lot more knowledgeable these days and they know what's the right price to pull the trigger all thanks to accessible information on the web.
Gone are the days of easy profits for buying and selling cues, but has the demand for cues dropped? Don't think so...
 
alerotaz said:
CD, Stocks, auto andor any collectible are risky..
They all go up and down..
Click to expand...


These may have inherent risk, as do all investments, but cues do not pay you to own them - stocks, cd's and bonds do.

I'm not sure that the vast majority of cues would have performed like these broad stock market index (blue line is VTSMX):

GenerateFundChart.ashx


A four-fold return ain't bad. Not too many cues can do that over the time period shown...
 
XPLAYHARDX said:
Well am I alone or has the rest of the world figured out that paying big dollars for cues is slowly becoming a thing of the past. I have been watching cues on this site as well as ebay and other cue selling sites and it seems to me that the market has become so stagnet that someone who owns cues is either stuck with them or willing to drop the price as to where someone is willing to part with the $$
I started thinking like this recently after seeing so many cues which I thought were priced right never sell.
I'm just wondering if others have these thoughts and would like their imput on the subject as well.
Click to expand...


For one thing, many cues are not truly collectible. Some will rise to that level and others will disappear in obscurity.

Otherwise, collectible cues are like any market. A rise in prices draws out the sellers, a drop in prices brings in the buyers. Prices float to the level that sustains both buying and selling. The cue market is tiny, so it just takes a few buyers fighting over the same cues to raise prices. It takes just takes a few sellers with large collections to saturate the market.

In general, most collectibles are weak investments because they are illiquid. On the other hand, most people buy collectibles because they enjoy owning them, not for their investment value.
 
As said already...it is currently a buyer's market.

To say today's state is permnament is like saying last year's temperatures ar evidence of global warming.
:duck:
 
I reserve the right to voice my opinion AFTER Cornerstone comes here and says he sold 2 million this month and he is sh*tting rainbows and the power of Christ compels him. :thumbup:

Just kidding Bill.

It is a buyers market AND there are other more personal reasons, but come see me in Steve Kleins booth to discuss. Maybe it really is time for the legitimate cue dealers to get a section in either the ACA or the ICA, and ban together, or you can watch further deterioration of the customer base as you know it.

Just an idea.

JV
 
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classiccues said:
I reserve the right to voice my opinion AFTER Cornerstone comes here and says he sold 2 million this month and he is sh*tting rainbows and the power of Christ compels him. :thumbup:

Just kidding Bill.

It is a buyers market AND there are other more personal reasons, but come see me in Steve Kleins booth to discuss. Maybe it really is time for the legitimate cue dealers to get a section in either the ACA or the ICA, and ban together, or you can watch further deterioration of the customer base as you know it.

Just an idea.

JV
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That's pretty funny right there!

Also, I will say that while I would never consider buying a cue as an investment (too speculative, imo), I would certainly buy one that I just flat out liked. There are some great pieces of functional art out there by some great craftsmen!
 
Not to seem argumentative and with all respect

Not to seem argumentative and with all respect but,,, I guess I need to expand upon and clarify an open discussion I posted and was pasted against..
I can show you many stocks that lost money or Value in the last 5 – 10 years (Facebook, Apple, Cisco, some Banking and some hospitals I can name many). I can show you others that have stayed flat.
What you shows was a overall screen shot of the overall Stock market. Sort of like a mutual fund you have winners and losers but you hope the fund gains more ground than it loses.
Also a collectible does not have the government pumping money into it to inflate the actual value or stops to keep it from Crashing. The Crash of 2007 still does not take in a account of the Ghost Oil market run up..

Last Year I bought an Old McDermott for 50$ at a bar and that night sold it for 200$ at the same bar. (Will I make that much mark up that quick every time? NO)
I was not trying to compare Stocks, CD and collectibles. But stating nothing is absolute. Money can be made (or lost) with anything.
The gentleman’s statement was “””

cue? investment? - Yesterday, 08:58 PM
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- --- ---
Well am I alone or has the rest of the world figured out that paying big dollars for cues is slowly becoming a thing of the past.”””

My answer still is it depends.. on many factors. Long term growth for most investments is a min of 5 years by many.
3-5 years is called a trend . 5-10 is called solid growth. 10- 15 is called great! 

2008- to now has changed a lot of thoughts on the market and views of profit.

Again I was not comparing a collectible to a Stock.. though I can.. the worst a pristine collectible can go down to what it was initially made for.
The worst a stock can go down to is a tax write off and paper to burn.. Even that has different means to different tax brackets! 
If you can afford and want to collect cues then Collect cues.. Don’t think you will get rich from it but if you do, Great for you!.. but the worst case is you bought history,
You had fun and can always say I owned or shot with a (XYZ Brand) cue.. I wouldn’t quite my day job for it either!! LOL
That is really all I was trying to say..
 
alerotaz said:
Not to seem argumentative and with all respect but,,, I guess I need to expand upon and clarify an open discussion I posted and was pasted against..
I can show you many stocks that lost money or Value in the last 5 – 10 years (Facebook, Apple, Cisco, some Banking and some hospitals I can name many). I can show you others that have stayed flat.
What you shows was a overall screen shot of the overall Stock market. Sort of like a mutual fund you have winners and losers but you hope the fund gains more ground than it loses.
Also a collectible does not have the government pumping money into it to inflate the actual value or stops to keep it from Crashing. The Crash of 2007 still does not take in a account of the Ghost Oil market run up..

Last Year I bought an Old McDermott for 50$ at a bar and that night sold it for 200$ at the same bar. (Will I make that much mark up that quick every time? NO)
I was not trying to compare Stocks, CD and collectibles. But stating nothing is absolute. Money can be made (or lost) with anything.
The gentleman’s statement was “””

cue? investment? - Yesterday, 08:58 PM
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- --- ---
Well am I alone or has the rest of the world figured out that paying big dollars for cues is slowly becoming a thing of the past.”””

My answer still is it depends.. on many factors. Long term growth for most investments is a min of 5 years by many.
3-5 years is called a trend . 5-10 is called solid growth. 10- 15 is called great! 

2008- to now has changed a lot of thoughts on the market and views of profit.

Again I was not comparing a collectible to a Stock.. though I can.. the worst a pristine collectible can go down to what it was initially made for.
The worst a stock can go down to is a tax write off and paper to burn.. Even that has different means to different tax brackets! 
If you can afford and want to collect cues then Collect cues.. Don’t think you will get rich from it but if you do, Great for you!.. but the worst case is you bought history,
You had fun and can always say I owned or shot with a (XYZ Brand) cue.. I wouldn’t quite my day job for it either!! LOL
That is really all I was trying to say..
Click to expand...

I hear you, it's all good. All I'm really saying is that collecting cues can be fun and that the pleasure from collecting and appreciating them is the end in and of itself, not the potential speculative gain or loss.

I saw some really great cues yesterday at the Derby and I can assure you that they would look great in my case next to my 9' Diamond pro. I have hundreds of CD, stock and bond certificates. How many of these do I display anywhere in my domicile? Zero!
 
We did a quick study here some years back - with input on values from a wide assortment of dealers and collectors.

Cues performed pretty well over the long term. I suppose we could update the prices but I believe in many cases they have gone up from the study.

Here's the link:

http://www.palmercollector.com/CuesAsInvestments.html


Here's the text (bear in mind the information is somewhat dated now):

Collectible Cues as Investments



For a balanced portfolio, money managers might recommend some holdings in collectibles as inflation fighters. When it comes to collectibles, I would think one should be more concerned with return OF investment than return ON investment.

While I collect as a hobby, it is nice to know that the hobby might return some value and may also appreciate in value. At least I don't want to lose a lot of money on it.

So I began thinking, what kind of return is there historically on cue collecting?


Some of my on-line cohorts and I recently did a small study. We took cue dealers mailers from the 1992 - 1994 hot cue collecting time period, deducted 10% from the selling price at the time (for haggling room), and took today's approximate market value of the cues. We received input from several big collectors and dealers on the pricing, and compared prices on 33 randomly selected cues from the mailers. I used variety to get a fair sampling.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that cues were not only "pretty", they were actually "pretty good investments". At least these cues were. Of course, this is assuming one buys collectible cues. This means a cue of historic or artistic merit, made by a famous maker and held for a reasonable length of time. In reality, very few cues meet this criteria. Hundreds of thousands of cues are made each year, but only a select few will be prized as collectibles10 years from now.

Here's what we found:

The average (collectible) cue (in the study) appreciated 113%, or 10% annually.

Cues purchased in those years with a value of $62,815 were worth $137,170 today.


The initial investment of $62,815 adjusted for inflation is $80,184 in today's dollars.


Cues outperformed inflation by over $56,000.

$62,815 invested in a savings account at 2.5% interest compounded annually would yield $19,999 compounded interest, while the cues appreciated $74,354.

While I would not advocate collecting cues as an investment, it is nice to see that it is a hobby which can be profitable! Take a look at the spreadsheet.


The spreadsheet can be viewed at the bottom of this page: http://www.palmercollector.com/CuesAsInvestments.html
 
TATE said:
For a balanced portfolio, money managers might recommend some holdings in collectibles as inflation fighters. When it comes to collectibles, I would think one should be more concerned with return OF investment than return ON investment.


While I would not advocate collecting cues as an investment, it is nice to see that it is a hobby which can be profitable! .[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

I like that Will Roger's Quote - so true!

And hobbies are great to have. They can be even better if they have the potential to return some funds, though they are worth doing even if they never earn a dime.
 
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