cue makers or extra job.

[RRfireblade]

. . . . Actually I am doing very well. I make 6 figures making custom cues. I work a lot but I like it . . . .

your right Don I am bitter. It is hard to compete against another cue maker that has a job and does not pay taxes on the cue business. No matter what I price my cues at around Greenville I get undercut

I guess I'm unsure of your complaint. Your doing quite well making cues but somehow upset about how other people are doing making cues ?

How do you know the other people are not claiming the income btw ?

And I guess I would add that if your self employed and paying 40% taxes annually then I would strongly suggest have some one else do your taxes cause that's just insane unless I'm missing something.

I've been self employed for about 15 years and I guess I have one heck of an accountant.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

To me it makes absolutely no difference if the cuemaker is full time or part time. I am the customer, and I will evaluate the product, and its value, cost, and potential resell value.

I have had close to 20 cues "custom" built for me over the years and have owned hundreds others, including "production" and "custom".

IMO, mostly what I have seen is they seldom actually hit their target dates on schedules, they can be a little cantankerous, moody, etc. My brother-in-law is an artist and he strikes me the same way. But, they are truely artists and do some amazing work. I get tickled at folks who order a cue and expect it to be delievered exactly when promised.

Before I get flamed too badly, imagine what I do. Cuebuyers are like the guy under Michealego in the Sesteen Chapel as he painting the ceiling....Yelling at the guy saying "When are you going to get that damned ceiling painted?"

Do I have a point? Well barely as usual, but here goes. Cuemakers not making alot of money to me is par for the course. If money is the motivator, then price it according to the hours and sell it. I suspect, like most artists, money isnt the motivator, but nobody wants to be a STARVING artist.

JMO

Ken

This post makes a lot of good points, and there are some full time cuemakers making a living out of their love of building cues. Just like cue Case Makers who build fine Cue Case as their livelyhood.

 

[Drawman623]

A name we all know

Mike

I think many have chosen to build cues because they admire those who do. Others do it because they think they can do it better than their cuemaker. In the end, taxpayer or not, few make any money at it and even fewer get to the skill level to build an artistic durable playable product.

I am sorry to hear that you are embittered at any of these people. You have achieved pool mastery that led you to big tournament wins, a Mosconi cup assignment and the respect of many players. You have overcome extreme obsticles since then and now are known throughout the pool world for your achievement as a cuemaker and cue design innovator. And you have defied the odds to be profitable too.

I have never achieved such success at anything I have ever done but for what it is worth, I for one, know your name and your work. I have enjoyed your cues and been amased at their performance. As for those other 16 repair guys, I can't say I have ever heard of them and as this thread moves down the list, I may never give them another thought.

I look forward to seeing what you roll out at the next show.

 

[Black-Balled]

One thing mg's competitors will never have is his reputation and name recognition. both up there.

I will agree w/ hangemhigh abotu the warp issue...

I will also agree w/Thecoats and say you should be thankful you can pay your taxes, i will go one further and applaud you for doing so.

 

[mullyman]

You can't stop anyone from entering your line of business.
Think of the people who were displaced by outsourcing.

If you build cues full-time, you better be living cheap b/c there is no money in it.

I can't believe that Ernie Guitterez of Gina cues doesn't have much money. You should say that there's no money in it unless you build a product that *everyone* wants and you can charge an arm and a leg for.
MULLY

 

[JoeyInCali]

I can't believe that Ernie Guitterez of Gina cues doesn't have much money. You should say that there's no money in it unless you build a product that *everyone* wants and you can charge an arm and a leg for.
MULLY

Mully if you only know what it entails to make world class cues, you wouldn't do it. Most don't.
It's just like pool. Sure Efren makes money. Now take your time spent on pool and put it on A TRADE.
Comparatively speaking, pool would be next to nothing.
Ask John Schmidt.
Might as well learn how to be a caddy.

 

[Thecoats]

I am a sucker to help people, always have been.

A wise man once said "NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED" sorry for your troubles/struggles.

-don

 

[mullyman]

IMO, mostly what I have seen is they seldom actually hit their target dates on schedules, they can be a little cantankerous, moody, etc. My brother-in-law is an artist and he strikes me the same way. But, they are truely artists and do some amazing work. I get tickled at folks who order a cue and expect it to be delievered exactly when promised.
Ken

I don't know, Ken, I think hitting a target date also helps with the reputation and stature of a cue maker. With all the cues I've ordered over the years I've only had the experience of not hitting the target date twice. The first time was with a certain east coast, high profile, maker. He kept putting me off and putting me off, even though I had paid him close to $20,000 up front. At one point he even told me that one of my cues was finished but a customer came in and liked it so much that he sold it to him. Needless to say I have not dealt with him since and I never will again and anytime someone asks me about ordering a cue from him I tell them that I want nothing to do with it.

The only other experience with not hitting the target date was with Paul Mottey. *BUT* in Paul's defense his mother in-law passed away and even then he only missed the date by 2 weeks *AND* he mailed me beforehand to let me know that she had taken ill and that he was getting backed up. I've ordered from Paul at least 5 or 6 times and other than that 2 week miss he has been spot on, and considering the situation at hand, I'm not going to hold that against him. I was actually surprised that he got it to me that quick. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to order from Paul Mottey.

Ernie Guitterez (sp?) at Gina cue is another one you can trust. He gives you a date and it's in stone. I've ordered at least 3 cues and 2 shafts from Ernie and he has hit his date perfectly.

I ordered one cue from Tim Scruggs a few years back and he quoted me 6 months and had the cue in my hands in 4. I don't think he was as busy as he is these days but I can't believe that he would miss a date.

If any of these young up and coming cue makers want to make it to the elite crowd you better make a good product and you better hit your quoted dates. It's unprofessional to make your customer wait.....without a good reason for it. If you're taking in too many customers than you need to back off on some of the orders or work that much harder to fill them.
MULLY

 

[ShootingArts]

comparing lists

Mully if you only know what it entails to make world class cues, you wouldn't do it. Most don't.
It's just like pool. Sure Efren makes money. Now take your time spent on pool and put it on A TRADE.
Comparatively speaking, pool would be next to nothing.
Ask John Schmidt.
Might as well learn how to be a caddy.

I strongly suspect that if you make a five year comparison of the top twenty caddies and the top twenty pool players that the top twenty caddies made far more for the five year period. Compare them to the top twenty true custom cue makers and the numbers would really get ugly.

Uggghhh! Anybody want some highly figured well dried exotic wood kindling?

Hu

 

[MVPCues]

I strongly suspect that if you make a five year comparison of the top twenty caddies and the top twenty pool players that the top twenty caddies made far more for the five year period. Compare them to the top twenty true custom cue makers and the numbers would really get ugly.

Uggghhh! Anybody want some highly figured well dried exotic wood kindling?

Hu

The top 99 on the PGA 2007 money list earned 1 million+. The top 34 earned two million+. A caddy for a PGA pro makes a salary, plus a cut of winnings. The cut is between 5 and 10%, so lets take the average and bump it up to 8%.

The top caddy would (Tiger's caddy ofcourse) make $869,000.

The 34th caddy would make $163,000.

The caddy in 99th on the money list would have made around $81,000.

Those estimates are probably a little low. I don't know what the salary usually is, but a PGA win is usually 10% for the caddy, and I believe Tiger's caddy made something like 1.2 million last year.

Yes Hu, I bet a comparison of the 34th top cue maker, and 34th top pool player to $163,000 would be ugly and laughable.

Kelly

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

The top caddy would (Tiger's caddy ofcourse) make $869,000.

$869,000 for HUMPING A Golf Bag, where do I apply?

 

[MVPCues]

$869,000 for HUMPING A Golf Bag, where do I apply?

www.pga.com

 

[MVPCues]

Anybody want some highly figured well dried exotic wood kindling?

Hu

P.S. YES! I will take it.

 

[NINEBALLART]

Mike.....You just have to live for yourself....You just have to go to bed at night with your mind clear...You can't worry about what others are doing...It will only eat at you and give you ulcers......
25 years ago when I started ny Pest Control business I took in a partner who had no money but would pay me back as business perked up...I accidently caught him and his wife stealing money from me....They had opened another account under the company name at a different bank....She was our secretary and answered the phone...She would give him jobs and he would get the check and put it in "their" business account...When I confronted them they said, "so what?" So sue us.....
I hired a lawyer but with courts the way they are it was going to take serval months to go to trial.....In the meantime the courts froze all assets and our monies...So what was I to do for income in the meantime?????
I was pissed....I thought about catching him in the rest room at the Bowling establishment we both bowled at and beating him something terrible...I even , because I could not sleep at night, thought about hiring someone to really mess him up real bad...
Then a friend said to just give him half of everything and go on with my life. Don't worry about him and what he is doing but worry about your own life and taking care of your family and make a good living and get some sleep at night...Even if he goes on to be the biggest company in Calif. making millions, so what.....Take care of your family and yourself.

My wife had a fit I even suggested giving him half after what he had done.....But I did it.....I did it to get on with my life and forget about worrying about him and what he had done....

I have been in business 25 years now, very successful and he has been out of business for 10 years now and selling Amway.....

I have been very happy since because I don't have him to worry about....My point is, you are doing it right. If others are not paying taxes or running their business the right way, so what??? Forget what you have no control over, keep doing the right thing, your customers that know you will see that, and you will be a much happier person...Live to make you and your family happy because the time you spend worrying about what others are doing is taking away from your family and your work.
No matter how hard you try you will not make everyone happy...But make yourself and your family happy...That's all that counts.....

 

[JoeyA]

Thanks for all the responses. Actually I am doing very well. I make 6 figures making custom cues. I work a lot but I like it. What really ticks me about the whole deal is the non tax payers. I am charged every month about 40% by the government. Just a little info on my location, I moved to Greenville, S.C. 20 years ago and there was nothing here as far as my work. Now there are 16 cue repairmen and 4 make cues and all got started either working for me or coming to my shop everyday till they got what they needed. I helped a lot of pool people make money and never got a thank you from one of them. But back to taxes and my thoughts. I feel like I should turn in the ones working under the table because it is not fair for me to pay and they pocket all their money. Now what do you think about that.

You should use better judgment than posting about the "T" word like this in a pool forum. Not only will the end not justify the means, your "feelings" could cause problems for you and others but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

However, I would love to have a job working for the government where they would pay me 33% of all the taxes I collected that they aren't currently getting now. With that 33%, in about a year, I would have almost enough to purchase a new identity.

JoeyA (let's get after those other shiftless people who aren't paying taxes on p**l winnings. )

 

[ShootingArts]

haven't made it into kindling . . . . . yet!

P.S. YES! I will take it.

I haven't made it into kindling yet! I'm spending about a week working on a cue lathe itself though, not making any dollars. If the lathe doesn't straighten out and fly right when I am done I may turn it into scrap and the wood into kindling. Doing grunt work on a lathe or mill next door pays better than cutting cues anyway. If I didn't have a good AC unit and sound system I think I'd sell the shop. Nice to go in there, shut the door, and just chill while I am whittling on cues.

Hu

 

[MVPCues]

I haven't made it into kindling yet! I'm spending about a week working on a cue lathe itself though, not making any dollars. If the lathe doesn't straighten out and fly right when I am done I may turn it into scrap and the wood into kindling. Doing grunt work on a lathe or mill next door pays better than cutting cues anyway. If I didn't have a good AC unit and sound system I think I'd sell the shop. Nice to go in there, shut the door, and just chill while I am whittling on cues.

Hu

I have a good job, but I wish I knew enough about machining to make money at it. I know just enough to break something on my lathe.

Kelly

 

[JoeyA]

I strongly suspect that if you make a five year comparison of the top twenty caddies and the top twenty pool players that the top twenty caddies made far more for the five year period. Compare them to the top twenty true custom cue makers and the numbers would really get ugly.

Uggghhh! Anybody want some highly figured well dried exotic wood kindling?

Hu

Why?
Is your back feeling that d***n good that you want to start carrying a golf bag?

JoeyA

 

[ShootingArts]

learn CAD and NC

I have a good job, but I wish I knew enough about machining to make money at it. I know just enough to break something on my lathe.

Kelly

These days you usually need a few machinist's skills and some CAD and NC knowledge to really break something. With a little CAD and NC knowledge an employee was able to do $30,000 damage to a friend's NC machining center in a few seconds!

I enjoy machine work and there are days I wish I had stayed with it when I first started at about fifteen. I have taken a lot of paths in a lifetime and I'm getting to the age where I wonder what would have happened had I taken the other fork here or there.

Hu

 

[Craig Fales]

I guess I'm unsure of your complaint. Your doing quite well making cues but somehow upset about how other people are doing making cues ?

How do you know the other people are not claiming the income btw ?

And I guess I would add that if your self employed and paying 40% taxes annually then I would strongly suggest have some one else do your taxes cause that's just insane unless I'm missing something.

I've been self employed for about 15 years and I guess I have one heck of an accountant.

That's what I was thinking...40% WTF!!!!!