Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion

Agent 99 said:
I will add this - A harder stroke is required to move the rock the same distance with a soft tip than with a hard tip. I think everyone can agree on that. Therefore, The soft tip will create more spin, not because of contact time, but because you are hitting the rock with increased stroke velocity, which is what is actually creating the greater spin.
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Wrong. Soft tip/hard tip struck at same speed will produce same spin. More spin is a product of greater tip offset. that's it.
 
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garczar said:
Soft tip/hard tip struck at same speed will produce same spin. More spin is a product of greater tip offset. that's it.
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The misunderstanding is often the assumption that "spin" means RPMs - a hard tip produces more force/RPMs at the same stroke speed.

But what matters in pool is the ratio of RPMs to FPS, the spin-to-speed ratio, which determines the spin's "effectiveness".

RPMs can be affected by tip hardness (or just by hitting harder/softer) - spin-to-speed is determined solely by tip offset.

/brokenrecord/

pj
chgo
 
maha said:
actually in sports you aim where it works for you.

in golf you aim the club face in the position that gives you the best chance with your swing for it to become square at impact.
meaning you adjust to what your swing will do. the average guy tries to adjust his swing all the time to mimic the pros and never gets better.

same in pool you aim in the spot wherever that may be for you that brings your tip to where you want it to go. and that comes unconsciously.
if you have to think about it then it means you will never be good.

why you get more spin with a soft tip... you know a hard tip will miscue more out to the sides because most dont meticulously chalk properly and it holds less chalk. so being more scared of a miscue they unconsciously move it a tiny bit towards center when stroking.

it like riding a motor cycle if you look way ahead of where you want to go, the bike automatically goes that way. those that dont and look close in are the ones that go straight off the side of the road on sharper turns.
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Funny thing, when I first played pool I was more comfortable cutting left. After a long break and return I cut right better. No change in my eyes so damned if I know why.

Off Topic: When I went around in circles with a good bit of banking I just herded the car around the track. I let it find the path with the least side force and that was the groove I ran. The poor track owner had one mudhole in his whole place. Me and a few others insisted on running through that mudhole in the bottom of turn one. Carroll asked me why I did it. I told him the truth, "that is where the car wants to go." I told him to put a big implement tire or a big dirt mound there and I wouldn't say a word but as long as I could drop the left front down there I would.

Hu
 
garczar said:
Wrong. Soft tip/hard tip struck at same speed will produce same spin. More spin is a product of greater tip offset. that's it.
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That’s one of those things that needs to be tested better. Dr Dave never does full proper testing. He always implies a conclusion that isn’t supported all the time by the evidence provided. There is something missing in the data. How can a cue with a soft tip, an approximate 70% CoR. And a cue with a hard tip, an approximate 85% CoR. Produce such vastly different results if it didn’t matter? The evidence from his videos does not support his conclusions on the matter. And a 15% difference in CoR, along with a 1ms variance in contact time. His conclusions just don’t add up.
 
7stud said:
I say .0006 seconds is a HUGE amount of time. Prove me wrong. How much time is necessary to make a noticeable difference in spin?
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The better question to ask is: Is pushing the ball with a softer tip more accurate than stroking the ball with a harder tip?

The idea that pushing the ball is actually multiple hits makes it a foul of multiple hits.

DrDave would have provided more compelling evidence if the video showed that on a power stroke Cue Tip hits the CB multiple times. This leads to the reason why softer tips are worse than harder tips.

Harder tips have less chance of miscue or multiple hit foul.

Is anyone else trying to sell billiard equipment here?
 
I'd like to see the results duplicated in a really loud environment. Like, super thumping base like I've played in some nightclubs. The balls are actually vibrating, which would surely be shown by the super slow motion camera and the effect that would have on spin. I've noticed the transfer is different in very loud environments.

I'd also like to see the effect of the base drop as it effects the rebound off the rails. I've noticed it's timed just right the balls rocket off the rail at a much shallower angle.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
That’s one of those things that needs to be tested better. Dr Dave never does full proper testing. He always implies a conclusion that isn’t supported all the time by the evidence provided. There is something missing in the data. How can a cue with a soft tip, an approximate 70% CoR. And a cue with a hard tip, an approximate 85% CoR. Produce such vastly different results if it didn’t matter? The evidence from his videos does not support his conclusions on the matter. And a 15% difference in CoR, along with a 1ms variance in contact time. His conclusions just don’t add up.
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I think they're deaf.
 
Cuedup said:
I'd like to see the results duplicated in a really loud environment. Like, super thumping base like I've played in some nightclubs. The balls are actually vibrating, which would surely be shown by the super slow motion camera and the effect that would have on spin. I've noticed the transfer is different in very loud environments.

I'd also like to see the effect of the base drop as it effects the rebound off the rails. I've noticed it's timed just right the balls rocket off the rail at a much shallower angle.
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I've also seen firsthand that when earthquakes are happening in San Francisco, you get better spin on the cue ball in New York. But only with a soft tip. How can you dispute this? Prove I'm wrong!
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
That’s one of those things that needs to be tested better. Dr Dave never does full proper testing. He always implies a conclusion that isn’t supported all the time by the evidence provided. There is something missing in the data. How can a cue with a soft tip, an approximate 70% CoR. And a cue with a hard tip, an approximate 85% CoR. Produce such vastly different results if it didn’t matter? The evidence from his videos does not support his conclusions on the matter. And a 15% difference in CoR, along with a 1ms variance in contact time. His conclusions just don’t add up.
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Just because you think/feel it doesn't mean much. Keep chuggin the soft-tip koolaid with lou.
 
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