Cuemaker build off

fd_colorado said:
A few more thoughts...

1) Should the cues be built to a "not to exceed" price point?

2) Is there any way to insure the cues while they are travelling about?

3) Should a standard Ratings Form should be created and made available for the cue makers to look over prior to the start of the cuemaking process.

4) Would the winning cue maker (assuming that can be determined) be willing to make a run of say (10) identically spec'd cues? And more importantly would AZers be willing to buy these cues pre-sale, sight unseen.

I am not sure if #4 is something the winning cue maker would consider to be good or not, but if the cue makers like this idea then we could give preference to wannabe testers who commit to one of the "homologation specials".
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I'd say the builders have a lot to gain from this & therefore should be required to offer the cue up for the testing. It should be an opportunity for the builder to shine, and then rake in orders after everybody sees how good his work his. Selling it up front is a sale, not a competition or test. This leaves room for doubts of intention, meaning the builder seems most concerned with the money he can make by participating. I say offer the cue then decide afterwards to sell or not. That's fair. There will be a bundle of potential customers not just looking at your work, but playing with it, hitting balls. What better advertising can you have? There's no logical reason for wanting up-front pay. It'd be a bonus of being payed to let people try your cues. That's rediculous. It should be a priveledge to participate, not something you should be compensated for. Participants either want to know where they stand, or want the opportunity to get their work known. It's a positive thing. It's relatively cheap but incredibly effective advertising. I think if the participants want to be paid for their participation, then they shouldn't be included. Heck, i'd even build a cue & offer it, and I got absolutely nothing to gain. I may or may not do it anyway, just to add some spice to the mix.

I usually ship USPS express, insured. I think this should be mandatory. It's 2-day maximum, relatively inexpensive & requires signature upon delivery. Come on, everybody gets to test a BUNCH of cuemakers' work without having to buy the cue. At least pay for trusty shipping.

I think a standard rating system should be drawn up. Include things such as opinions on the hit, play, feel, balance, overall comfort & trustiness, then get into things such as fit & finish, cleanliness of work, attention to detail, etc. It should be an easy thing to do. Maybe rate each category from 1-10, with 10 being perfection & 1 being unacceptable.

I'm fine with the builders shipping the cues directly to me, then I can ship them to FTG upon assigning an identity number. I don't have any issues with any builders & have no reason to show any bias, so hopefully they trust my integrity. Shipping from my shop alleviates any chance of indentifying the builder by where the cue was shipped from.
 
leon sly said:
??? should the cue be cored or should it be solid just a thought
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The builder needs to build the best hitting cue he can. What will most players like?
Hit of the year contest. LOL

I haven't read the entire post so my thoughts could be repeats of other posts.

Is this a competition to build a desired hit or the builders idea of what hits the best.
 
Graciocues said:
The builder needs to build the best hitting cue he can. What will most players like?
Hit of the year contest. LOL

I haven't read the entire post so my thoughts could be repeats of other posts.

Is this a competition to build a desired hit or the builders idea of what hits the best.
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I say keep this as inexpensive as we can. No points, inlays..The builder builds this cue to show off how good his cue can hit. This is to give AZ members a chance to either hit some good cues and give some feedback on them, or come on here and see what we as a group like about each cue. This is great for the pool community, and I think GREAT for the cue builders....


So far this is what we have

1. The cue will have a lightly figured BEM forearm and butt

2. Handle will be Maple or Purpleheart, wrapped or wrapless (up to cue builder) if you specifially build all your cues with PH then use PH.

3. Cue builder to decide to core or not to core

4. cue builders personal taper on shaft

5. Cue builder to use Molavia Medium tips provided by Duc Lam

6. Builder's to use black phenolic collars, buttcap

7. Cuemakers choice on ferrule, pin

8. Weight will be 19oz +/- 0.2oz

9. No ringwork, inlays, points, signatures or trademarks

10. have integrity & build the cue as if somebody had ordered it, the same way you'd build all of your cues..

This is all subject to change until all cue builders agree to this
 
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A few more suggestions ftgokie:

1. Start a list of people wanting to try out these cues...of course I believe I was one of the first so I should be somewhere at the top of the list.

2. A cheap 4 X whatever case should be used to ship the cues in.

3. It is the next person in line's responsibility to pay for shipping, small price to pay for trying out 4 different cue makers cues.

4. They be shipped a minimum of 3 days or less, something like usps priority but SHALL include insurance for at least half of the cues values in case something does happen.

Does this make sense?
 
a9ballbr8k said:
A few more suggestions ftgokie:

1. Start a list of people wanting to try out these cues...of course I believe I was one of the first so I should be somewhere at the top of the list.

2. A cheap 4 X whatever case should be used to ship the cues in.

3. It is the next person in line's responsibility to pay for shipping, small price to pay for trying out 4 different cue makers cues.

4. They be shipped a minimum of 3 days or less, something like usps priority but SHALL include insurance for at least half of the cues values in case something does happen.

Does this make sense?
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I totally agree. I will put up the list of people tomorrow that have said they wanted to try the cues out. And I agree....insurance would have to be included.

IF we can get someone to donate a case, that would be great also. Or how are we going to get a case? Maybe someone look to find the cheapest 4 butt 4 shaft (if there is such a monster) case. Or if someone has an old worn 4 butt however many shaft case.....that would be good also.

I gotta get to bed, I have a busy day today...
 
ftgokie said:
I totally agree. I will put up the list of people tomorrow that have said they wanted to try the cues out. And I agree....insurance would have to be included.

IF we can get someone to donate a case, that would be great also. Or how are we going to get a case? Maybe someone look to find the cheapest 4 butt 4 shaft (if there is such a monster) case. Or if someone has an old worn 4 butt however many shaft case.....that would be good also.

I gotta get to bed, I have a busy day today...
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PM JB Cases to get this case donated and tested as well.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=129265
 
can anyone test hit these cues?

is this like ariel carmeli did with the sending a deposit to try out a cue?

id like to volunteer to be a tester if it's possable
 
ftgokie said:
I say keep this as inexpensive as we can. No points, inlays..The builder builds this cue to show off how good his cue can hit. This is to give AZ members a chance to either hit some good cues and give some feedback on them, or come on here and see what we as a group like about each cue. This is great for the pool community, and I think GREAT for the cue builders....


So far this is what we have

1. The cue will be Birds Eye Maple forearm and butt (no highly figured BEM)
2. Handle will be purpleheart, wrapped or wrapless (up to cue builder)
3. Cue builder to decide to core or not to core
4. No ringwork, inlays or points
5. cue builders personal taper on shaft
6. Cue builder to use tip of their choice, 13mm
7. Builder's choice of joint type/material, buttcap, ferrule, pin
8. Weight will be 19oz +/- 2oz

This is all subject to change until all cue builders agree to this
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Bro, you keep making the same mistake...

"8. Weight will be 19oz +/- 2oz"

should be...

"8. Weight will be 19oz +/- 0.2oz"

Thanx,
 
I would like to try the cues also. With so many cues maybe they should be shipped in two groups, to different people so each person is not asked to evaluate, or keep track of and have to ship 8 cues at one time. I will also order a cue from the cuemaker who makes the one I Like the hit of the best, no matter where they finish in the main competition. So I agree its great advertising for all of the cuemakers, no matter where they end up finishing in the final order because each of us like different hits in our cues.
 
fd_colorado said:
4) Would the winning cue maker (assuming that can be determined) be willing to make a run of say (10) identically spec'd cues? And more importantly would AZers be willing to buy these cues pre-sale, sight unseen.

I am not sure if #4 is something the winning cue maker would consider to be good or not, but if the cue makers like this idea then we could give preference to wannabe testers who commit to one of the "homologation specials".
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QBILDER:

Sorry for the confusion in my post re: item #4.

I was not suggesting that all or even one of the cue makers be paid.

I envisioned 10 people sending ftgokie or another trusted party, the not-to-exceed cost. After a winner is determined, the cue maker would make a run of 10 indentically spec'd cues that would go to the 10 buyers.

The concept behind "homologation" is that you (the cue maker) are willing to produce and sell the cue you represent as being available to the public at the price you say it is worth.

The motorsports world has used this method for decades to keep the manufacturers somewhat honest.

The cue maker is in effect saying, "I am not building a $1000 SP that I am representing as a $300 SP. I am willing to sell this same cue for what I said I'd sell it for".

I don't think the intended purpose of this event would be served if the winner turned out to be a $1000 Sneaky Pete.

The reason the 10 buyers would be asked to pay up front, is that they would be showing a level of commitment, whereby they would then receive preference in the testing schedule.
 
I think this was mentioned before, having a meet at a big event like Super Billiards Expo, the US Open, or Derby City, or even a regional event like Turning Stone, or Tour season finale. More people get to try out the cue and give an opinion, without having to wait and pay for shipping.

When people try out these cues, (mostly) everyone is gonna have a different opinion because hit and feel are very subjective. Once the cuemakers have been revealed, the participants will know who made their favorite cue out of the bunch, and hopefully make an order.
 
Well, I think earlier in the first couple pages I said I wanted to test them. I call dibs on being really high up on the waiting list. :D
 
fd_colorado said:
QBILDER:

Sorry for the confusion in my post re: item #4.

I was not suggesting that all or even one of the cue makers be paid.

I envisioned 10 people sending ftgokie or another trusted party, the not-to-exceed cost. After a winner is determined, the cue maker would make a run of 10 indentically spec'd cues that would go to the 10 buyers.

The concept behind "homologation" is that you (the cue maker) are willing to produce and sell the cue you represent as being available to the public at the price you say it is worth.

The motorsports world has used this method for decades to keep the manufacturers somewhat honest.

The cue maker is in effect saying, "I am not building a $1000 SP that I am representing as a $300 SP. I am willing to sell this same cue for what I said I'd sell it for".

I don't think the intended purpose of this event would be served if the winner turned out to be a $1000 Sneaky Pete.

The reason the 10 buyers would be asked to pay up front, is that they would be showing a level of commitment, whereby they would then receive preference in the testing schedule.
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I agree. My concern was FTG getting stuck buying cues that are in the most part an advertising tool. The cuemakers shouldn't ask to be paid to participate. It should be a priveledge that they are able to. That's how i'd feel if I were a newer builder with something to prove.
 
LOL -- the homologation cues might even become a special interest collector's item.

_________

I think the appearance of the cues will play a big part of the tester's rating.

Can you imagine if SW, for (just one) example, made a $500 SP for the event? And if they won the contest and offered the homologation cues with say a 3 month wait time....well, you may as well open the door to the shark cage and pour blood into the water.

This could be interesting!
 
Someone brought up the point of same type of tips from diff cue builders may have a diff hit...

Duc Lam has said he will provide Molavia Medium tips....that way they should be from same batch and be pretty consistant in the feel.
 
Right now.....we have 6 cuemakers that are participating. I think that should be plenty for the time being.....That way we dont have to spend 100.00 to ship cues out....keep it simple (for now)

Having the cues at a big Billiards Event would be cool...but my plan was for the members on here to be able to try out some cues from diff cuemakers. I know there are some AZ'ers that can go to these events, but I think the majority can not attend these..maybe I am wrong.

This will obviously take some time.....at least 2 months for the building of the cue, 3-5 days with Eric, 3-5 days with me, 3-5 days for each participant...you can do the math.....But at the end, I think there will be some valuable info that we can provide to fellow AZ'ers about these particular cues...who knows, If Eddie Wheat is a cuemater in this event, he may be the next South West Cue....:thumbup: "thats some sarcasm guys"
 
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After you get the list together shipping to the next closest location can save on time and money. If the cues get to a big town where many AZer live they can work together to meet and several test the cues at the same time. Maybe even sharing the shipping costs.
 
For a test of cues up to $500 or so, I would just buy them from their site/retailer.

If full splice then that is what I would get, buying cues as close to possible to each other.

Then it would truly be a blind test of a players cue.
 
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