Cuemaker keeping a customer's cue

[TATE]

I'm saying it again...

Well-known cuemaker (who the OP has referred to as 'THEM').
The cuemaker is question does NOT post here.
The cuemaker's designs are heavily copied.
The logo is found on the pin.
There is now a big 'what if' as to whether or not the cuemaker may be a female.

I'm again going to guess South West.

What do I win?

You win REP.

This is kind of scary. If this is the case, then the information should be published so buyers know what to look for in the fakes. How would you like to have a $2500 KC cue?

SW copies are dime a dozen, but has anybody seen a faked pin?

Chris

PS. As far as I'm concerned, this is just rumor, speculation, and heresay until someone with credibility substantiates the story with some sort of evidence.

 

[TSW]

You win REP.

This is kind of scary. If this is the case, then the information should be published so buyers know what to look for in the fakes. How would you like to have a $2500 KC cue?

SW copies are dime a dozen, but has anybody seen a faked pin?

Chris

Also, if a given cuemaker has a habit of illegally seizing cues sent in for authentication, that's something that we should all know about. It's bad enough to buy a fake cue without worrying about the cuemaker stealing it.

 

[TATE]

Also, if a given cuemaker has a habit of illegally seizing cues sent in for authentication, that's something that we should all know about. It's bad enough to buy a fake cue without worrying about the cuemaker stealing it.

It makes me concerned how widespread the problem is. If pins are faked, I can't imagine it's just one.

I think the cuemaker should grind off the markings and return the cue, or contact law enforcement and file a report. But it's a pretty worthless cue anyway.

Chris

PS. As far as I'm concerned, this is just rumor, speculation, and heresay until someone with credibility substantiates the story with some sort of evidence.

 

[poolpro]

I'm saying it again...

Well-known cuemaker (who the OP has referred to as 'THEM').
The cuemaker is question does NOT post here.
The cuemaker's designs are heavily copied.
The logo is found on the pin.
There is now a big 'what if' as to whether or not the cuemaker may be a female.

I'm again going to guess South West.

What do I win?

I have to agree, all those pieces fit. That is assuming the "facts" do not change again!

I have a hard time thinking that they would just keep a cue under these circumstances though.

Jw

 

[SCCues]

I have to agree, all those pieces fit. That is assuming the "facts" do not change again!

I have a hard time thinking that they would just keep a cue under these circumstances though.

Jw

If it is South West cues I know that they authenticate cues and provide letters to the cue owners stating the cues are theirs regularly, but surely not every cue someone has asked to be authenticated has been a South West and i've never heard a story about them keeping someones cue. This doesn't make any sense and they definitely aren't hurting for business with a 10 year waiting list! Their cue design is copied more than any other from what i've seen on the market.

James

 

[Sweet Marissa]

If the cue was mailed, that makes it a felony charge, as well.

 

[Run the Century]

Experience with Southwest

I had a "Southwest" that I bought from a local dealer here in Texas. As part of the exchange we agreed to the deal provided Laurie authenticated the cue as a Southwest (it was a Jerry Franklin ear cue - no markings). Laurie informed me it was a copy and promptly sent the cue back to me - and I was able to get another cue from that dealer - I believe Laurie to be an honorable woman - that has been my experience with her.

Chris

 

[triley41395]

Something is still stinky here...and I still have my shoes on

 

[Fuji-whopper]

I had a "Southwest" that I bought from a local dealer here in Texas. As part of the exchange we agreed to the deal provided Laurie authenticated the cue as a Southwest (it was a Jerry Franklin ear cue - no markings). Laurie informed me it was a copy and promptly sent the cue back to me - and I was able to get another cue from that dealer - I believe Laurie to be an honorable woman - that has been my experience with her.

Chris

Thank you very very much this is the type of story I was looking for, how long ago was your situation?

 

[Junkyarddog]

I had a "Southwest" that I bought from a local dealer here in Texas. As part of the exchange we agreed to the deal provided Laurie authenticated the cue as a Southwest (it was a Jerry Franklin ear cue - no markings). Laurie informed me it was a copy and promptly sent the cue back to me - and I was able to get another cue from that dealer - I believe Laurie to be an honorable woman - that has been my experience with her.

Chris

But you said it..."(it was a Jerry Franklin ear cue - no markings)."

 

[TATE]

Thank you very very much this is the type of story I was looking for, how long ago was your situation?

Well, there's a big difference between a pre-numbered cue and a post-numbered cue.

From what you said, the cue you are referring to was numbered, correct?

Chris

 

[Junkyarddog]

Well, there's a big difference between a pre-numbered cue and a post-numbered cue.

From what you said, the cue you are referring to was numbered, correct?

Chris

The cue did have markings on it that would infringe trademark usage.

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Well, there's a big difference between a pre-numbered cue and a post-numbered cue.

From what you said, the cue you are referring to was numbered, correct?

Chris

Not numbered but had a cactus on it, for those that think I was wrong for being vague and hiding things I apologize. Too many times I have seen someone post going off half-cocked about this person or that only to apologize about running the other person's name through the mud without proper reason.

I honestly only wanted to hear if such a thing had been done since I had NEVER heard of anyone doing such a thing so I wanted to know what the wise old hands at AzBilliards had to share. So far there are 6 pages of people not liking the situation/me/both and only one story which is great since I wouldn't want anyone to go through what my friend is currently experiencing.

 

[Run the Century]

It was about...

6 or 7 years ago. The dealer swore it was a southwest (and even when it was returned still believed it was). Laurie couldnt have been nicer and apologized and said there were quite a few "fakes" out there. I think she charges now for the authentication letter - which I can understand. It was unmarked though so I guess it could be said the maker wasnt "trying" to pass it off as a southwest. It looked exacly like one however and played really good too.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Not numbered but had a cactus on it, for those that think I was wrong for being vague and hiding things I apologize. Too many times I have seen someone post going off half-cocked about this person or that only to apologize about running the other person's name through the mud without proper reason.

I honestly only wanted to hear if such a thing had been done since I had NEVER heard of anyone doing such a thing so I wanted to know what the wise old hands at AzBilliards had to share. So far there are 6 pages of people not liking the situation/me/both and only one story which is great since I wouldn't want anyone to go through what my friend is currently experiencing.

I figured it was a SW and the situation you are asking about included a faked logo (I think) which is far different than Laurie not authenticating a cue that doesn't have here copyrighted trademarked logo on it, far different.

I can't see where you owe anyone an apology. It seems to me that everyone (including Laurie) has acted reasonably in this matter and you were being thoughtful (and thought provoking). Its a shame if you are the one holding the item, but with a faked copyrighted trademarked item, just like a stolen item, the last one holding is the one that looses, all he can do is chase up the chain to the person who sold the item to him.

And of course, he should have learned to get the authentication as a part of the buying investigation, pre not post.



Thanks

Kevin

 

[TATE]

Not numbered but had a cactus on it, for those that think I was wrong for being vague and hiding things I apologize. Too many times I have seen someone post going off half-cocked about this person or that only to apologize about running the other person's name through the mud without proper reason.

I honestly only wanted to hear if such a thing had been done since I had NEVER heard of anyone doing such a thing so I wanted to know what the wise old hands at AzBilliards had to share. So far there are 6 pages of people not liking the situation/me/both and only one story which is great since I wouldn't want anyone to go through what my friend is currently experiencing.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't consider this a slam on SouthWest. They are trying to protect people like us from further fraud.

I think you have just done a huge public service by releasing enough information to make people aware there may be un-numbered, fake SouthWests that have a cactus logo on the pin.

It's always a shame when anyone gets burned like this and I feel sorry for people who do.

I can tell you that the collectors and dealers I know try to warn others when we see fakes, or altered, or mis-represented cues out there. Oftentimes a cue like this will pass though the hands of people who are considered respectable or knowledgeable , who, knowingly or unknowingly, pass it on. This, unfortunately, lends credibility to the cue.

My opinion - SouthWest should contact the owner, make an agreement to grind off the cactus after taking pictures as evidence and give him his cue back. What's it worth, anyway? It's probably a KC or some Taiwan/China cue anyway. The owner is already a victim. No way anyone who knew the cue was a fake would send it to SouthWest...

I it possible to trace the trail of ownership? Who owned it who might have been knowledgeable of cues?


Chris

 

[Fuji-whopper]

I it possible to trace the trail of ownership? Who owned it who might have been knowledgeable of cues?


Chris

That's where it really sucks, it was sold to a local poolroom owner who sold it to my friend. The room owner bought it in good faith thinking it was authentic so that's where the trail really ends, the poolroom owner trying to help out a roadplayer/dirtbag by buying his "valuable" cue at a decent price and getting burned.

I have never seen a copy of a Southwest with a cactus on it that's just brazen theft if you ask me, I can't believe someone would go to those lengths. Many cuemakers started out or have made a Southwest "looking" cue at some point in their career as they are very pleasing to the eye, but the logo/ trademark infringement goes to far which is why I didn't really blame them for keeping the cue. For all I know they could be building a case against a known forger and they are using it as evidence, I'm not going to call them and stick my nose where it isn't wanted though.

 

[triley41395]

I'm sorry but the right thing to do is to let the owner know they will get it back after the court case if there is one or after the cactus is removed. Keeping the cue is plain and simple theft.

 

[TATE]

That's where it really sucks, it was sold to a local poolroom owner who sold it to my friend. The room owner bought it in good faith thinking it was authentic so that's where the trail really ends, the poolroom owner trying to help out a roadplayer/dirtbag by buying his "valuable" cue at a decent price and getting burned.

I have never seen a copy of a Southwest with a cactus on it that's just brazen theft if you ask me, I can't believe someone would go to those lengths. Many cuemakers started out or have made a Southwest "looking" cue at some point in their career as they are very pleasing to the eye, but the logo/ trademark infringement goes to far which is why I didn't really blame them for keeping the cue. For all I know they could be building a case against a known forger and they are using it as evidence, I'm not going to call them and stick my nose where it isn't wanted though.

Hope the room owner shoulders some of the financial blame.

Anyway, I would suggest your friend try SW one more time, asking them to remove the cactus and send it back - worth a try.

It was probably something along these lines but with an engraved pin:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Delta-Sport-New-SouthWest-Style-Cue-w-Free-1x1-Case-1_W0QQitemZ320421639596QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a9e35ac

They used to go for $75 with 2 shafts :sorry:

Chris

 

[cranegod1]

Is Eddie Wheat involved with this somehow?