Cues that hit the same.
- Thread starter the kidd
- Start date
That is like saying God should have made every tree with the exact same grain pattern, weight and density and the cuemaker should find the exact same turning square from the exact same part of the tree every time. Bottom line is every piece of wood is unique and might hit a little differently. So we can make cues play close to the same, but not exactly the same.
But here is a way for you to get a cue that plays the same every time. Go get you an aluminum cue that is mass produced from the exact same thickness of aluminum every time. It will play like garbage, but at least every cue will play the same.
But here is a way for you to get a cue that plays the same every time. Go get you an aluminum cue that is mass produced from the exact same thickness of aluminum every time. It will play like garbage, but at least every cue will play the same.
Boy Kidd you got a lot to learn.. J/K I had a conversation with a cuemaker about this issue two weeks ago. He said emphatically that it's impossible to make any two cues exactly the same in regards to the hit or how someone feels they hit. He had a client that was a top level player, he fell on hard times and sold a cue he loved. When he got back on his feet he contacted the cuemaker and asked him to build a cue exactly like his old one. It looked identical but the buyer was very disappointed at the feel of it. He even tried to buy back his old cue to no avail. So when you find a cue that you love hold onto it with a death grip, you may never find another one like it.
There are a lot of cuemakers capable of building consistent hitting cues.
The differences in the wood, tips, ferrule material, wraps, etc., will obviously change the hit,
but I notice a lot of consistency from many cuemakers.
Knowing exactly what to expect is a little too serious for me, and could take some of the excitement out of deal.
I may as well have just one cue if everything is going to be the same.
The differences in the wood, tips, ferrule material, wraps, etc., will obviously change the hit,
but I notice a lot of consistency from many cuemakers.
Knowing exactly what to expect is a little too serious for me, and could take some of the excitement out of deal.
I may as well have just one cue if everything is going to be the same.
Your statement above in bold is where the problems lies. If you can find a cuemaker who will do this for you then I wish you and them all the best. The shaft is only part of the equation but your question was not just the shaft.
I can make 10 cues all the same. Same wood, same size, same weight, same tips and ferrules, same everything. When you hit with them you will find they all hit good but usually one out of the 10 is a monster and is way better than the rest. It is not just one thing, the shaft or the butt, as you can start changing these things around and that feel goes away. That butt and that shaft are just something special.
I have sold alot of cues and have had people come in and look at a cue and say that is what they want. Then I get the "players" that want to hit with everything you have and don't care what it looks like they just want a good playing cue. They do not care if it is a "Plain Jane" or loaded, if it has that special feel is all they are looking for.
My suggestion is if you are looking for that "Player" go to a cue maker and ask to hit with everything that he has and see if you can find a "Monster".
I have sold alot of cues and have had people come in and look at a cue and say that is what they want. Then I get the "players" that want to hit with everything you have and don't care what it looks like they just want a good playing cue. They do not care if it is a "Plain Jane" or loaded, if it has that special feel is all they are looking for.
My suggestion is if you are looking for that "Player" go to a cue maker and ask to hit with everything that he has and see if you can find a "Monster".
But.........
Cues hitting exactly the same would make life so vanilla.
Cues hitting exactly the same would make life so vanilla.
id like to relate a similar story
i used to play guitar and on a trip to manhatten i went to a very famous guitar store
in a special room they had top level martin guitars
considered then the best acoustic guitar made
i played about 20 guitars all D-45
of the 20 2-3 really stood out as special
same with cues
the cue makers known for "players cues" will build great playing cues
but from every batch will be a "chosen one'
if you get one
never sell it
jmho
It seems to me that an experienced cue maker can make cues that feel/play similarly within limits. After all, cue makers make their reputations in great part based on how their cues feel/play.
Of course, there are many unpredictable variables in natural materials, so there is certainly variation. But I feel confident that certain makers build cues that play similarly, though not exactly the same.
I don't think it is as unpredictable as some would have us believe. I mean, how many cues does an experienced cue maker trash because they do not play within the limits of what he determines his cues should play within? Considering the amount of work that goes into a cue and the marginal profit claimed, I don't think there is much room for complete unpredictability.
I feel confident that an experienced maker can "tune" a cue (within limits) to play how he thinks it should.
Certainly there will always be what I call the "top 10%" as well as what I call the "top 2%". Some cues will just have certain qualities....
But with an experienced cue maker it seems that is part of what we are paying for. 90% will play within limits, 10% will play at least "great", and 2% will be exceptional. If we compare that to something like the "Taiwan" imports...such as the old Mizeraks and Cobras I have... 90% play like crap, 10% are at least decent, and 2% actually are great. The crap cues shouldn't make it out of the experienced custom maker's shop...but they also should be very, very few in number.
All of this is very subjective of course because the qualities spoken of are a matter of taste and perception. But I think it is true that cues can be and are made that play fairly similarly. How discerning the player is will determine just how similar or different any cues might be. A casual player can't discern the differences that an experienced player can detect.
If a player really wants a cue that plays exactly like the cue he has there is only one solution. NEVER sell it. That's why I still have my old JOSS. I have shot with other old JOSS and Joss West cues over the years and mine stands out among those I have put my hands on. Lucky? Biased? I don't know. But I would be hard pressed to exactly replace it. The way I have explained it in the past is this: If you are holding your own pecker it just feels right, holding somebody else's just feels wrong. My JOSS feels right.
Just my rambling thoughts. Carry on....
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Of course, there are many unpredictable variables in natural materials, so there is certainly variation. But I feel confident that certain makers build cues that play similarly, though not exactly the same.
I don't think it is as unpredictable as some would have us believe. I mean, how many cues does an experienced cue maker trash because they do not play within the limits of what he determines his cues should play within? Considering the amount of work that goes into a cue and the marginal profit claimed, I don't think there is much room for complete unpredictability.
I feel confident that an experienced maker can "tune" a cue (within limits) to play how he thinks it should.
Certainly there will always be what I call the "top 10%" as well as what I call the "top 2%". Some cues will just have certain qualities....
But with an experienced cue maker it seems that is part of what we are paying for. 90% will play within limits, 10% will play at least "great", and 2% will be exceptional. If we compare that to something like the "Taiwan" imports...such as the old Mizeraks and Cobras I have... 90% play like crap, 10% are at least decent, and 2% actually are great. The crap cues shouldn't make it out of the experienced custom maker's shop...but they also should be very, very few in number.
All of this is very subjective of course because the qualities spoken of are a matter of taste and perception. But I think it is true that cues can be and are made that play fairly similarly. How discerning the player is will determine just how similar or different any cues might be. A casual player can't discern the differences that an experienced player can detect.
If a player really wants a cue that plays exactly like the cue he has there is only one solution. NEVER sell it. That's why I still have my old JOSS. I have shot with other old JOSS and Joss West cues over the years and mine stands out among those I have put my hands on. Lucky? Biased? I don't know. But I would be hard pressed to exactly replace it. The way I have explained it in the past is this: If you are holding your own pecker it just feels right, holding somebody else's just feels wrong. My JOSS feels right.
Just my rambling thoughts. Carry on....
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Wow, I really liked this site, just for the general cue knowledge....re-thinkin what i like.....
Really?
....
No not really:grin-square:
Hi,
Everyone has their own bend to the brim as they say but here is my take on the subject.
After building about 75 cues I had developed enough experience to start to understand the effect the wood combos had on the hit sounds and feel of my cues. It always kinda bothered me that my all cues all hit different because of the woods chosen. After building a 100% straight grained maple combo cue for a very good friend of my who is a world class straight pool and one pocket player I had a revelation.
He wanted a cue that would be quiet, have a solid feel for feedback to his hand and arm. After playing with his cue, I understood why he speced it that way. From that point on I got the notion to try to make my cues play as close to the same as I could possibly attain. Even if only 20 % of the general pool playing potential customers wanted this kind of hit, I am completely ok with not building cue for the other 80% anyway. As they say, "the person who tries to please everyone will in the end please very few".
So I started building my cues without an A Joint and went to a 29" solid core 3/4" maple dowel inside my entire cue. Because the maple dowel along with a cored maple handle it makes my cue play amazingly very close to each other. When I use an ebony forearm compared to a softer wood forearm for example, the hit is not that different because when the cue is completely turned down to finial size the wall thickness at the nose is only .052 per side with the 3/4" dowel being the dominant wood of that cross section aspect ratio. I feel that this niche part of the market is where I want to be. For people who want cues that ring when you hit them there are plenty of other cue makers to use. I did build 2 A-Joint customs this last year however for 2 players that wanted an exact combos for the feel they asked for so I am flexible when it come to customer requests,LOL.
Of coarse my cues don't and never will play exactly the same because every piece of wood is very different but I have been able to build my last 46 cues to be very similar with the quiet solid hit that I love from the maple core. Today I am using only laminated maple dowels and the difference in the wood species on my cues don't change the hit, they only add what I refer to as a "Different Flavor" to the hit of the maple as the maple core transfers most of the shock wave that transmits like a conduit within the cue after the ball is struck.
JMO,
Rick
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the hit
I am not sure if I completely agree.
I haven't made 100 cues yet but I have about 30 out there.
I think my cues all hit very close to the same. I think it is because I use a full maple core and my shaft taper is pretty stiff. My assembly methods are pretty consistent.
Of course, they vary a little with the species of wood but, I don't think it's that much.
And that's what my customers tell me.
that's just what I think.............
Kim
I am not sure if I completely agree.
I haven't made 100 cues yet but I have about 30 out there.
I think my cues all hit very close to the same. I think it is because I use a full maple core and my shaft taper is pretty stiff. My assembly methods are pretty consistent.
Of course, they vary a little with the species of wood but, I don't think it's that much.
And that's what my customers tell me.
that's just what I think.............
Kim
Been building my cues with no A joint for over 12 years, either 6-pie laminated or with 6-pie core. Most all the cues hit about the same. The biggest difference in sound is when using Mason's Micarta ferrules which seem to be much louder. As for those concerned about losing a place to balance the cue by not having an A joint - weight can be changed in many places, including the A joint area even though there is no A joint.
As stated by Brickcues, even so, every once in a while there is a monster, a butt and shaft combo that really hits the balls spectacular.
Just a non-cue maker's observation on an added benefit of full length coring. You say that the hit is much more consistent than when using an A joint, but what I love so much about a laminated full length core, is that you reduce the possibility of warping to almost zero. A nice "little" side benefit.
Chris
Chris