Custom Cue
- Thread starter Dawgie
- Start date
I could care less about phoning Keith. I used to get cues from him. I figured out real quick that they play no better than a house cue. Inlays don't make a cue play better. Even with the Canadian dollar above par with the US dollar, I'm still not buying a Josey. It has nothing to do with Keith, and everything to do with you.skins said:you would get bored sittin' in that deep whole you're diggin' for yourself. by the way let me know how that conversation goes with Keith when you call him.......
Your arrogance is amazing. When you said you and Keith are brothers from different mothers, I'm envisioning the movie "Twins". Keith must be Arnold.......................
I believe you meant "you're" there.skins said:don't blame you??? you wrote it. just because you see someone else do it you assume it's correct?? ....besides i'm not "blaming" anyone but your the one with the "jump on anything you can" attitude. i was just giving "tit for tat" thats all. as far as the "clique", maybe you just displaying some animosity for an organization that you can't play ball with.
Shawn Armstrong said:
you couldn't care less about talking to Keith because you know you'd be met with the info i've told you and you just don't want to be proven more inept than you already are acting. as well, i'm glad "figured out real quick that they play no better than a house cue." you must have really nice playing house cues up there. i'll pass the the compliment on the Keith. oh, as far as YOU not buying a cue from Keith, that doesn't bother him.
I miss holes all the time.skins said:joey!!!!! not you too........get in that hole with Shawn.......
you missed "whole" in a previous post......
Pockets, I mean.
You sound exactly like John Barton. John barked and woofed on here until his boss came on and smacked his ass in public. I guess Keith is doing so well that he no longer cares about someone that used to be a loyal customer. I gave Keith over $2000 of my money in repairs and cues. Glad to see it meant nothing to him.skins said:
Shawn Armstrong said:
that's where your ineptness comes in Shawn. you correlate your disdain for me with someone who you held in high regard. you make a judgment and decisions of action towards a person without talking to them about it. i'm sure Keith was grateful for the business you had done in the past but to make a decision to not do any more because of a rift you created in the first place on another thread and this one as well is juvenile. remember your response to me from the last thread........
"Thanks for making me look like an ass in public. Keith would never have done that."
maybe not cause he knew you already in some way.....i only knew your crass words to other posters and actions to that point and made my point to you because of them even though some was at your expense which i apologized for but you said "the damage was already done". so in essence actions from someone who you don't know from adam (me) and you're going to cut off a "great" relationship with someone which had nothing to do with me. how do you think that makes Keith feel. think about it, any response now to your comments are just on par yours. you're relationship with Keith is between you and him. like i said call him is you have an issue. i'm sure he will straighten things out if your relationship was as you say.
Interesting little fun fact: Custom cues are not always better quality. Schon cues have consistent quality.
skins said:
Dude, first please let me bow to Superior Intellect, because you are a Legend here on the forum and also in your own mind
. You present yourself as if you have all the answers, and I am fine with anyones opinion. However, when you act in a manner where you think your opinion is the only answer to a quest for information you are have delusions.If I were you,first I would see a Doctor about these delusions
, or if you already have increase your medication. Again, during discussions I do not point fingers or intentionally try to destroy anyones reputation, their own actions clearly do this without my help.I have been involved with and read other posts with your involvement. You may be the best computer programmer currently working on programs for cue makers, and I have never said that you were not professional at what you do, I have said though that I am not impressed by it. If disagreement with your views hurts you little feelings to this extent you need to get a SKIN Transplant because yours is too thin Baby!!!!!
Oh and by the way, I do not spew
anything for guy's !!!! You are a guy are you not!
?
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pwd72s said:I've been following this thread with interest.
In my case, I carry two cues that I enjoy playing with. One, a Jacoby J-2 that I bought back in the late 90's. The other is a Josey I bought from the "for sale" section of this site. A new cue, bought from Josey. One of his panto cues with sharp points. I just love the old sharp point style.
This cue was NOT made to my specs. At my age, 64, I don't want to wait years for a cue...hell, I might not be here when it's finished.
So, is this Josey a "custom"? Actually, I don't care. It's a treat to my eyes whenever I remove it from my (Jack Justis, as long as we're name dropping) case. It has a hit that I'm loving as well.
Another cue I have was purchased back in the early 70's. I bought it mainly to help a friend...he wanting a special price he could get by ordering two. Shortly after buying this cue, I got married, had a daughter to raise, a business to run, so it just got placed in a closet. MUCH later, I decided to take up pool again as a recreation.
This cue? Probably the holy grail of production cues for the collector.
A Palmer Model M from the second catalog. I don't play with it often for fear of being mugged. It's in mint original condition, even the original tips.
BUT...since I ordered this cue, it has my name under the clear ring. It has 14mm tips on both shafts, since at the time I thought they would work well with my large hands. Now, as far as I know, Gene Balner did not alter butt designs from the cues in his catalog.
BUT...since it's my name under the ring, and the tips made oversize at my request, is this a "custom" cue? I dunno, but I know I'll never sell it.
I guess I am confused about the distinctions being posted here. What I'm not confused about is knowing that I enjoy my cues...
guess I am confused about the distinctions being posted here. What I'm not confused about is knowing that I enjoy my cues.
You are not confused in any way, in fact I think you hit the nail on the head with the above statement.
manwon said:
listen Manwon, tell me what in my post, that promoted this response, is not true.............what's funny is you offer absolutely NOTHING substantive against what i say,....educate me....i'm a sponge for knowledge..... instead you offer this very delusional opinion based on ignorance.....
"Dude, first please let me bow to Superior Intellect, because you are a Legend here on the forum and also in your own mind . You present yourself as if you have all the answers, and I am fine with anyones opinion. However, when you act in a manner where you think your opinion is the only answer to a quest for information you are have delusions."
.....as far as hurting my feelings well i'm sorry but you've failed. oh and by the way you have spread allot of somethings, and there called incongruity, ignorance, and an obvious security complex........oh i forgot.....
skins said:listen Manwon, tell me what in my post, that promoted this response, is not true.............what's funny is you offer absolutely NOTHING substantive against what i say,....educate me....i'm a sponge for knowledge..... instead you offer this very delusional opinion based on ignorance.....
"Dude, first please let me bow to Superior Intellect, because you are a Legend here on the forum and also in your own mind . You present yourself as if you have all the answers, and I am fine with anyones opinion. However, when you act in a manner where you think your opinion is the only answer to a quest for information you are have delusions."
.....as far as hurting my feelings well i'm sorry but you've failed. oh and by the way you have spread allot of somethings, and there called incongruity, ignorance, and an obvious security complex........oh i forgot.....
This is one subject that we do agree on and I quotefrom the above(I'm a sponge). Buba, I spent 23 years in the military and I retired in 2003. I have been on ever Continent except Antarctica, I have experienced things that you could never imagine. I am very open minded, and I truly try to help others by offering my opinion, not by forcing my beliefs on others.
Unlike you, I give people information freely on any topic I have experience with. I do not offer book solutions or ridicule those with differing opinions, and I also do not force thinly veiled points upon others to benefit myself or my lively hood.
Like we use to say in the Army, shit is shit, you can wrap it sugar but sooner or later people will discover what someones ulterior motivation is.
I've read with interest some of the opinions what others consider a custom cuemaker. I've read with less interest the posts where individuals insist on comparing the size of their _____.
And decided to weigh in with my humble opinion of what constitutes a production vs a custom cuemaker. I agree that custom means made to certain specifications for an individual person. And some production manufacturers as well as individual cuemakers do this with the right monetary incentive.
The difference to me is the individual knowledge. A skilled machinist is a craftsman in his own right, whether it be a milling machine, pantograph, or CNC machine. An artist is a craftsman in his own right, creating something of beauty that most of us cannot, even given tools, whether it be paint, stain, precious metals, or a computer program.
The difference to me between production and individual (custom) cuemakers is this. Production cues, made in quantity, by companies, hire specialists for each aspect. Knowledgeable buyers for the wood, artists for the designs, machinists for the cutting, lathing, etc., and skilled workers to oversee the assembly and finish. Some cues turn out 'perfect', some ok, and some not so good. But it's just a business and they go home at 5.
To me, the individual (custom) cuemakers, themselves, have that knowledge and talent, to look at a raw piece of wood and see the quality, or lack thereof, the integrity and composition, the strength or frailty, and the beauty that can come out of it. They know which types of wood go well together, which will create a butt heavy cue, which will create a forward balanced cue, which will create the perfect inbetween balance. How to decorate a cue, with veneers, inlays, wrap, or none of these, to create a work of beauty, and find that line between aesthetically elegant and garishly gaudy. And assemble it in a manner that functions with consistency and dependability. And they do all this out of a passion to create, not to pick up their paycheck friday afternoon. The individual (custom) cuemaker often doesn't quit at 5 because the cue he is working on has an individual waiting for it, with eagerness in their heart and eyes, for 'their' cue. For the individual (custom) cuemaker, it's often not 'about the money' but about the creation. And those who are successful in the creation, sometimes make money too.
Just my thoughts.
And decided to weigh in with my humble opinion of what constitutes a production vs a custom cuemaker. I agree that custom means made to certain specifications for an individual person. And some production manufacturers as well as individual cuemakers do this with the right monetary incentive.
The difference to me is the individual knowledge. A skilled machinist is a craftsman in his own right, whether it be a milling machine, pantograph, or CNC machine. An artist is a craftsman in his own right, creating something of beauty that most of us cannot, even given tools, whether it be paint, stain, precious metals, or a computer program.
The difference to me between production and individual (custom) cuemakers is this. Production cues, made in quantity, by companies, hire specialists for each aspect. Knowledgeable buyers for the wood, artists for the designs, machinists for the cutting, lathing, etc., and skilled workers to oversee the assembly and finish. Some cues turn out 'perfect', some ok, and some not so good. But it's just a business and they go home at 5.
To me, the individual (custom) cuemakers, themselves, have that knowledge and talent, to look at a raw piece of wood and see the quality, or lack thereof, the integrity and composition, the strength or frailty, and the beauty that can come out of it. They know which types of wood go well together, which will create a butt heavy cue, which will create a forward balanced cue, which will create the perfect inbetween balance. How to decorate a cue, with veneers, inlays, wrap, or none of these, to create a work of beauty, and find that line between aesthetically elegant and garishly gaudy. And assemble it in a manner that functions with consistency and dependability. And they do all this out of a passion to create, not to pick up their paycheck friday afternoon. The individual (custom) cuemaker often doesn't quit at 5 because the cue he is working on has an individual waiting for it, with eagerness in their heart and eyes, for 'their' cue. For the individual (custom) cuemaker, it's often not 'about the money' but about the creation. And those who are successful in the creation, sometimes make money too.
Just my thoughts.
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I don't know if anyones cares anymore so I'll just throw up the short version of my opinion.
"Custom" means built especially to someones wants or needs by request.
Quality has nothing to do with anything. Many production cues are high quality , many 'Custom' builts are crap.
Contruction methed mean nothing either. Many highly skilled craftsman use automated tooling , many production companies use lots of hand labor.
Doesn't matter.
IMO , you either have 'custom' or not and 'High End' or not and either could be master/hand crafted.
Jay.
"Custom" means built especially to someones wants or needs by request.
Quality has nothing to do with anything. Many production cues are high quality , many 'Custom' builts are crap.
Contruction methed mean nothing either. Many highly skilled craftsman use automated tooling , many production companies use lots of hand labor.
Doesn't matter.
IMO , you either have 'custom' or not and 'High End' or not and either could be master/hand crafted.
Jay.
simmer1 said:
To me, the individual (custom) cuemakers, themselves, have that knowledge and talent, to look at a raw piece of wood and see the quality, or lack thereof, the integrity and composition, the strength or frailty, and the beauty that can come out of it. They know which types of wood go well together, which will create a butt heavy cue, which will create a forward balanced cue, which will create the perfect inbetween balance. How to decorate a cue, with veneers, inlays, wrap, or none of these, to create a work of beauty, and find that line between aesthetically elegant and garishly gaudy. And assemble it in a manner that functions with consistency and dependability. And they do all this out of a passion to create, not to pick up their paycheck friday afternoon. The individual (custom) cuemaker often doesn't quit at 5 because the cue he is working on has an individual waiting for it, with eagerness in their heart and eyes, for 'their' cue. For the individual (custom) cuemaker, it's often not 'about the money' but about the creation. And those who are successful in the creation, sometimes make money too.
Very well said, and directly to the point!!!
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manwon said:
listen, i don't want this to turn into something ugly Manwon. my only motivation here is to offer knowledge not flaunt it. you say:
"Unlike you, I give people information freely on any topic I have experience with. I do not offer book solutions or ridicule those with differing opinions, and I also do not force thinly veiled points upon others to benefit myself or my lively hood.".....
once again show me where i have done any of this?? your still not offering anything substantive and still can't give examples because they don't exist. anything i may have said was in defense of either a misconception about a process or defense of myself from statements that are off base. you among others have put this false stigma on me from your accord not mine. i have and will always offer anything that i know about any subject to anyone who needs it if i can. i can assure you that your assessment of me in this regard is 180 degrees away from the truth. remember Manwon, your post #5 in this thread opened your door to ridicule. you being a maker yourself and calling every maker that uses "this technology" to earn their money a.....wait let me get it right......a "JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!". WOW!! where is the guy who just said:
"I am very open minded, and I truly try to help others by offering my opinion, not by forcing my beliefs on others. "
you just personally disrespected many cue makers with this statement and you say i'm the one who has an ulterior motivation. on the contrary i respect EVERY maker and his/her methods and have NEVER once made light or ridiculed any maker for them. you sir have with one bold statement offended scores of them and as i touched on before some that you would not think use "this technology" but in fact do. even before this you say:
"many of these people have not and can not build cues in a traditional manner without the use of this technology"
can you name the makers on my list that would fit this criteria??? the fact is most every individual or small partnership type cue maker makes their "canvas" ( the basic cue before inlay ) the same basic ways without the use of "this technology" as well the entire cue if they want to. it's in the application of and type of art to the canvas that the maker determines whether the use of specific machine or would be beneficial to their end result. that's the makers choice. the same as it's your choice to use a specific type lathe, blade, panto, ect......to not only ridicule another maker for their choice of process but do it without knowing the process in detail itself, is not only reckless and ignorant but puts you in your own pot that you're trying to cook me and others as well in. you say you're also a "sponge", well i think you've spent so much time filling yourself with your own "liquid" there's no more room for any other to get soaked up.
Skins, all I head when you speak is "WAH WAH, WAH WAH WAH, CNC is awesome, WAH WAWAH WAWAWAH" (sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher).
Don't call yourself "custom" and pump yourself up to be anything more than a high end production shop. When you add machines to your operation that you don't have to operate (I have to move my machines WITH MY HANDS), you've become a production house. You are a Falcon, Joss, Viking, McDermott, except you can't produce their volumes, and you rely on snob appeal and collectors to pay your bills. I don't see anything wrong with it, except the fact that any of the houses listed above could make the exact same cue that you do, except they'd only charge 1/5 the price.
God bless capitalism. I'm one of the ones that woke up and smelled the glue and realized that the cues you construct are no better than the stuff that TaiCan produces for Predator. Your cues have laminated cores. So do theirs. Your cues have radials, theirs have Uni-locs (the Falcons have radials, though). They have interchangeable shafts, so do you. They have CNC inlay machinery, so do you. The only thing they don't have is a signature on it. Their guys can produce beautiful CNC inlaid cues. Look at the Musashi line from Helmstetter, or Mezz Cues. However, when they do it, they don't charge $4-5k for their work. They realized the machine reduced the man hours, and they charge accordingly. How much would you pay someone to glue inlays into precut pockets? The same amount you'd pay the guy to bag your groceries.
That's my point. Now, please, tell me where I'm wrong.
Don't call yourself "custom" and pump yourself up to be anything more than a high end production shop. When you add machines to your operation that you don't have to operate (I have to move my machines WITH MY HANDS), you've become a production house. You are a Falcon, Joss, Viking, McDermott, except you can't produce their volumes, and you rely on snob appeal and collectors to pay your bills. I don't see anything wrong with it, except the fact that any of the houses listed above could make the exact same cue that you do, except they'd only charge 1/5 the price.
God bless capitalism. I'm one of the ones that woke up and smelled the glue and realized that the cues you construct are no better than the stuff that TaiCan produces for Predator. Your cues have laminated cores. So do theirs. Your cues have radials, theirs have Uni-locs (the Falcons have radials, though). They have interchangeable shafts, so do you. They have CNC inlay machinery, so do you. The only thing they don't have is a signature on it. Their guys can produce beautiful CNC inlaid cues. Look at the Musashi line from Helmstetter, or Mezz Cues. However, when they do it, they don't charge $4-5k for their work. They realized the machine reduced the man hours, and they charge accordingly. How much would you pay someone to glue inlays into precut pockets? The same amount you'd pay the guy to bag your groceries.
That's my point. Now, please, tell me where I'm wrong.
Custom= One that you can get only if you know me!
If you have seen one,you know what I am talking about.
If you have seen one,you know what I am talking about.