Cut, bank, or "other"?

A lot of players shoot the side pocket because it's a shorter shot and looks easier. In reality, pocketing the side cut is more difficult because the cut is so thin but the main danger is the cue ball has to be shot pretty hard on that thin of a cut. The corner cut is actually an easier shot and more controllable.

The danger of he side, in my opinion, is 1) unnecessary possible collision with balls to mess up the table 2) if you succeed in missing the 5 and 9, it brings the three rail scratch into play (upper right corner) - the cut is so thin the cue ball has to travel that far and if you don't scratch you're a long way from the next shot. Turning the cue ball loose is usually a pro player's last choice.

These experiences have happened to me and Karl Boyes probably as well, which explains his decision. These thoughts would go through my mind in a few seconds and I would try to cut the 4 into the corner every time.

I would expect Boyes to make the corner shot and get out most of the time.
 
TATE said:
A lot of players shoot the side pocket because it's a shorter shot and looks easier. In reality, pocketing the side cut is more difficult because the cut is so thin but the main danger is the cue ball has to be shot pretty hard on that thin of a cut. The corner cut is actually an easier shot and more controllable.

The danger of he side, in my opinion, is 1) unnecessary possible collision with balls to mess up the table 2) if you succeed in missing the 5 and 9, it brings the three rail scratch into play (upper right corner) - the cut is so thin the cue ball has to travel that far and if you don't scratch you're a long way from the next shot. Turning the cue ball loose is usually a pro player's last choice.

These experiences have happened to me and Karl Boyes probably as well, which explains his decision. These thoughts would go through my mind in a few seconds and I would try to cut the 4 into the corner every time.

I would expect Boyes to make the corner shot and get out most of the time.
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I think we are not seeing the shot the same way - I have read your analysis of other shots and we are usually on the same track. Could be a wei thing.

To me, the shot in the side looks finesse-able. Slow speed with outside spin and a very controllable two-rail path. I would want to be able to hit the third rail very softly, and accurate within a ball or two - if I were looking at the shot on a real table and decided I had to hit it hard enough that a 3-rail scratch was a possibility, or that I could not achieve that kind of accuracy on the third cushion, then I would look for another shot.

Edit: I should have noted previously that I cannot see the image in the OP from my browser. I am using the wei image on the 2nd page of this thread for my analysis. Perhaps they show two different situations?

Aaron
 
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I do see a few safeties, but they all look harder than the shot.

1. Nip the 4 towards the corner, have cb come just past the 8 to lay on the rail. (Might even make the 8.)
2. Draw off the 4 ball, to lay in the same spot as #1. 4 ball goes 2 rails, between 5 and 9, lands somewhere in rack area.
3. Undercut 4 ball to miss corner pocket by at least a diamond. Hit hard, with low right draw off the 4 ball. Hard enough to avoid side pocket, come 2-3 rails to same rail area as #1 and 2.
 
I like the soft cut on the four in the side...should bring you back out into the middle of the table for the easy combination. That's what I like here.
 
With a better look at the layout I would change my shot to a cut in the corner with a little inside I like those cuts but if the balls were a little less angle to the side then the cut in the side is good as well, it depends on how you like to shoot and as long as you make the last one it's all good.


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I would probably back cut it into the side with some inside english to kill the cueball. I don't want the cueball flying around fast especially when it is going to run into the 8 or 9 or both.
 
CreeDo said:
An old Mosconi Cup situation.
What shot do you like here?

I see four options.
• Cut in corner
• Cut in side
• Bank combo
• Safe

zapNikJ.jpg
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I would not play safe.

I would not shoot the bank/combo on the 6.

I would not cut the ball in the corner because the cueball would go further uptable. If I made the 4 then I would be shooting the 5 from distance and I might possibly make the 5 & 6 in one shot leaving me the 8 ball to shoot at and no good way to get on the 9.

I would cut the 4 in the side and be closer to the 5 when shooting it. It gives me more control over the 5 and the 6. If I end up with an angle where I think the 5 & 6 are both going to fall, I can more easily play shapes on the 8.

ONB
 
Neil said:
Rich, something you might want to try with the cut in the side is to use inside and a draw drag shot. You will be able to hit harder while the cb won't go as far. Good chance of hitting the 9, but in this case that doesn't present a problem.
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That's my shot as well. Inside should kill the speed pretty good when it hits the second rail.
 
Did you guys that all like the side pocket cut see my video of it in post #33? It's WAY thinner than it looks. The shot is no good.

I'll try the side pocket cut later with inside and report back.
 
efirkey said:
I would probably back cut it into the side with some inside english to kill the cueball. I don't want the cueball flying around fast especially when it is going to run into the 8 or 9 or both.
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My initial post was to cut the four into the side with a touch of inside but after setting this shot up on my table and shooting it a good number of times I've decided that a little bit of outside is needed to help the four open up toward the pocket. My percentage was very high. On one sequence I did it 12 times in a row but I was not surprised because I see this shot into the side as fairly routine.

Getting hooked behind the nine or the eight is highly unlikely to almost impossible. For me the corner is not a bad shot but not as workable as the side pocket. Mainly because I have to use my minds eye to find the corner pocket. The side pocket shot has the pocket right in front of me.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Did you guys that all like the side pocket cut see my video of it in post #33? It's WAY thinner than it looks. The shot is no good.

I'll try the side pocket cut later with inside and report back.
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Yes, and in your video it looks like you have the cb farther from the 4 than shown in the diagram. At that angle, you don't need to move the cb much to make it no longer a viable option.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Did you guys that all like the side pocket cut see my video of it in post #33? It's WAY thinner than it looks. The shot is no good.

I'll try the side pocket cut later with inside and report back.
Click to expand...

The problem here is the perception of the exact placement of the cue ball. 1/2" difference in placement is the difference between a routine shot and a very difficult shot.
 
TATE said:
The problem here is the perception of the exact placement of the cue ball. 1/2" difference in placement is the difference between a routine shot and a very difficult shot.
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In the diagram it doesn't look so bad, but from the video it looks like a bit more angle. I like the side from looking at the pic, but at the table may be another story.
 
It would be good to see the original video maybe the angle to the side was even worse then shown here. What match was is in?


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iusedtoberich said:
Did you guys that all like the side pocket cut see my video of it in post #33? It's WAY thinner than it looks. The shot is no good.

I'll try the side pocket cut later with inside and report back.
Click to expand...
I watched it. Just because it's thin doesn't mean no one can make it. That being said, stay within your skill set. Don't shoot a shot you know you can't make. If your skill set doesn't allow you to shoot the thin cut in the side, shoot the corner play to your strength.

Even as set up in the video (whether that perfectly reflects the game situation), for some folks - including a large number posting here - the percentages are still positive if you shoot the side...

-td
 
When I read the thread this morning looking at the wei image I felt like I would go corner with a possibility of the side. I would not combo only due to moving balls you dont need to create an issue if you get a funny roll. After looking at the video of the setup I would automatically go corner, but I practice that particular shot alot. The video made the side look harder than the wei diagram.

~Perk
 
Cut this in the side all day long, natural position 3 rails back to center of table, then play the combo and run out from there.
Scott
 
Video of side pocket cut with inside

Video of side pocket cut with inside:
http://youtu.be/yP_91yDz5j8

I stand corrected. I just shot the ball in the side with inside english. I made it 6 for 6. With inside the ball was actually way easier to pocket than with center which is what I was using before.

The inside also held up the CB for actually the closest position on the combo.

Sorry about the video, I shot it 6 times, and made it all 6 times with position. Then I shot it in the corner again going between the 8 and 9 and got on that perfect as well. But my video cut out after the third shot, I'm out of hard drive space! Yikes.

So, I think I like both options about the same. But if you shoot it in the side, the inside makes the shot 10 times better than center ball, both from an ease of pocketing standpoint, and from a position on the combo standpoint.

Note, I think on a Diamond table the inside would not have held up the CB as well as on this GC4, imo.
 
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