Cut, bank, or "other"?

CreeDo said:
...snip...

Here's an overlay of my diagram with the video (thankfully mosconi cup provides overhead shots).
Below is an attempt to overlay iusedtoberich's setup, with the perspective corrected.
You can tell by the shadows that his positioning of the 4 and the cue ball was very close. The rest don't matter much.

....snip....
Click to expand...

Hi Creedo, Nice overlay. It looks like you matched up the Cuetable to the actual match layout perfectly. Is there any chance you can go back to the Cuetable and turn on the grid, and post a screenshot of that? (only if its easy for you to go back). I have a grid drawn on my cloth and can use that to better align with yours.

Thank you, and thanks for starting this thread.
 
I encourage those who like the side pocket to set it up and try it in real life. Looks easier on paper!

JC said:
These two shots come to mind. The black path is a stun shot using about a tip of right English and the red path is a stun shot using a toi to slow the cue ball off the rails. I am in the process of setting up my table right now so I can't try either one.
View attachment 309119
Click to expand...

I like the idea but I don't think it lies right for these safeties.
In your black line diagram the hit is a little fuller than half ball but the cue ball is going about 40% further.
The object ball couldn't be held to the rail as drawn, it would bounce out past the 8.
The red diagram might be possible if you can kill the speed enough with inside spin.

Bieber's looks possible but tricky, leaving an object ball within 6 inches of the rail.
If you let the other guy have a look at the 4 it might go in the side, corner, or off the 8.

I might play safe like this... if I'm gonna play an iffy safe then they're at least gonna hate the shot.
It's not easy, requires a thin hit + a little inside to tighten up the angle going towards the foot rail.

But the 5's position near a corner makes it the biggest ball to hide behind.
And a lot of good things can happen if you don't quite get there.
- They're frozen to the foot rail
- They're frozen to the side rail
- They're treetopped over the 5
- The 4 ends up where you naturally scratch in the side if you cut it in the corner.
- You accidentally overcut the 4 into the hole and have a shot on the 5.

iiL9fwq.jpg


iusedtoberich said:
Hi Creedo, Nice overlay. It looks like you matched up the Cuetable to the actual match layout perfectly. Is there any chance you can go back to the Cuetable and turn on the grid, and post a screenshot of that? (only if its easy for you to go back). I have a grid drawn on my cloth and can use that to better align with yours.

Thank you, and thanks for starting this thread.
Click to expand...

Sadly I didn't save the cue table, just the image I'd have to recreate it... I'm just too lazy haha.

Here's what I do to match the layouts nicely... I guesstimate the layout on the cuetable website
and take a screenshot. I open it in photoshop.
Then I take a screenshot from the video (I think Old Nine Baller took care of that)
and paste it on top in photoshop, reducing its transparency to 50% and stretching it to match.
Then I go back to the cuetable layout and adjust as needed until it's correct.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Pretty sure this could work, but I wouldn't say it's easy.

Just slightly back cut the 4 with a stun stroke. Main objective is to play the speed of the 4 ball.

This is really a situation where since both the shot and the safety aren't gimme's, I prefer to take the aggressive route and shoot since there doesn't seem to be an automatic lock up safety.

_4V6DBR3zKH-Jt0oL2ip.png
Click to expand...

That shot is no good at all and should be stricken from the record!
 
C.Milian said:
Looks like you can cinch the 4 in the side and still have many options. Karyl could have landed stuck behind the 8 and ralf would have somehow whack the shit out of the cue ball and make the 5, 6, 8, and nine in the same corner pocket.
Click to expand...

I'm calling a foul on you, C
You haven't been posting much.

This is your first warning.....two more and you're shipping me your keyboard.

:cool:
 
I just tried it 3x on my table and I do like shooting it hard to the corner wit lots of r) spin.

Cb goes 4 rails and ends up in top r) 1/8 of pictured table.

If you don't win most of the time from that 5/6 combo...even at length, well then, I guess it really doesn't matter what you do with the ball before it anyway, does it?
 
Black-Balled said:
I agree that cutting it into the side is prob the 'pro' shot, but I am side pocket retarded, so I cut it in the corner.
Cutting it to the corner means you will not run into the 5 w/ cb, so basically anywhere other than behind the 9 is shape for the combo.

Of course, I am also combo retarded too, so I am prob gonna end up banking the 5 after the combo anyway, dammit.
Click to expand...

Cut in side, but speed is the issue. The OB is about one diamond from CB, if it was 100% straight it would require say a speed of 1 to move OB one diamond (scale of 1-10), but because it is almost 80 degree cut, that means you need almost 8 diamonds of CB to make the ball, that could hit the 9, 8 or scratch, so you must shoot with inside to kill cb, and cb will squirt in the proper direction for ob. Just saying. And remember, this ob/cb distance there will be no swerve, only squirt, unless you are jacked up to the roof!!!
 
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Side pockets are hardly on the table for me, I literally avoid them if at all possible.
Effectively, I cannot make that ball in the side...I would bet I can do it 2/12 shots.
 
3 Safety options on video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPEuuvthNW0&feature=youtu.be

Here I tried the 3 safety options that were listed in the past couple of pages. One of them worked fairly well. The other two did not work.

IMO, the strongest safety option is still not nearly as good as playing offensively, with the 4 in the corner sending the CB between the 8 and 9, or the 4 in the side with extreme inside, holding it up. Both of these shots were extremely high percentage (like 80% for me, and I'm a C player)
 
I would bank the 4 into the 6, over bank it a bit so the 4 stays away from bottom rail after contact. stop cue ball near the center of the table.
 
iusedtoberich said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPEuuvthNW0&feature=youtu.be

Here I tried the 3 safety options that were listed in the past couple of pages. One of them worked fairly well. The other two did not work.

IMO, the strongest safety option is still not nearly as good as playing offensively, with the 4 in the corner sending the CB between the 8 and 9, or the 4 in the side with extreme inside, holding it up. Both of these shots were extremely high percentage (like 80% for me, and I'm a C player)
Click to expand...

Great effort there, putting the vid up.

The shot where you held the cb with inside and hid it behind the 9 was powerful...though lucky .
 
Zhero said:
I would bank the 4 into the 6, over bank it a bit so the 4 stays away from bottom rail after contact. stop cue ball near the center of the table.
Click to expand...

Give us a guesstimate...how many times out of 10 do you think you would make the combo and have a shot on the next ball?

Honest answer, please. I am not looking to make a bet, just wanna know:wink:
 
I see to many things that can go wrong with a bank, but I do like cut shots and this setup doesn't bother me for a cut either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CreeDo said:
I encourage those who like the side pocket to set it up and try it in real life. Looks easier on paper!



I like the idea but I don't think it lies right for these safeties.
In your black line diagram the hit is a little fuller than half ball but the cue ball is going about 40% further.
The object ball couldn't be held to the rail as drawn, it would bounce out past the 8.
The red diagram might be possible if you can kill the speed enough with inside spin.

Bieber's looks possible but tricky, leaving an object ball within 6 inches of the rail.
If you let the other guy have a look at the 4 it might go in the side, corner, or off the 8.

I might play safe like this... if I'm gonna play an iffy safe then they're at least gonna hate the shot.
It's not easy, requires a thin hit + a little inside to tighten up the angle going towards the foot rail.

But the 5's position near a corner makes it the biggest ball to hide behind.
And a lot of good things can happen if you don't quite get there.
- They're frozen to the foot rail
- They're frozen to the side rail
- They're treetopped over the 5
- The 4 ends up where you naturally scratch in the side if you cut it in the corner.
- You accidentally overcut the 4 into the hole and have a shot on the 5.

iiL9fwq.jpg




Sadly I didn't save the cue table, just the image I'd have to recreate it... I'm just too lazy haha.

Here's what I do to match the layouts nicely... I guesstimate the layout on the cuetable website
and take a screenshot. I open it in photoshop.
Then I take a screenshot from the video (I think Old Nine Baller took care of that)
and paste it on top in photoshop, reducing its transparency to 50% and stretching it to match.
Then I go back to the cuetable layout and adjust as needed until it's correct.
Click to expand...


Pretty nice, I didnt see that safe. I was thinking similar, but still opposite.

Alot can go wrong here, but I was thinking:

ScreenHunter_05Dec211108.jpg
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I would cut it. I guess everybody's game is different but the cut doesn't look that difficult and it is almost impossible not to get shape.
 
I would go for the side pocket. There are fewer variables going against you and more variables going for you. Banking sends the cue ball up table and banking is different on every table. Cutting to the corner pocket also sends the cue up table. Cutting to the side is a closer shot and sends the cue to the area you need to be in for the next shot anyway. You have a mile to get the cue ball to stop for a shot on the five.
 
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