Cyclops vs brunswick & aramith
- Thread starter fat Albert
- Start date
Just because something has been used for decades, doesn't mean it can't be surpassed, and doesn't necessarily make it the best, either. Just because Cyclops don't play the same as Aramith, doesn't mean they're not as good. Likely, they'll take the money they're making, and put it into R&D to develop even better balls.
What other options were there? Complaints arise the most when there are other options. When you only have two choices, and both are made by the same product, there's practically no use in complaining, because you're stuck with that product.
TROB. With all due respect you can't get out of a deep hole with a broke shovel . Just because pool is down does not mean you have to prostitute yourself on cheap whores. Raise your price , elevate and raise your anty
I didn't say that either.
Didn't say that either.
The fact that they are all over the place and sometimes have a roll-off, act strangely and inconsistently in cut shots, not even very sharp cuts....makes them worse.......MUCH worse.
Never had that experience with them.
This has def been my experience also.
JC
Coos Cues
Cyclop balls play better than 99% of the people complaining about them.
Much better.
JC
I understand Diamond( Mark and Greg) own a part of Cyclop. or are monetarily involved.
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I understand Diamond( Mark and Greg) own a part of Cyclop or are monetarily involved.
Co-sign^ Imo cyclop are great .
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RBC
Deceased
A little history, at least as far as I remember it. I'm not, and have not been, directly involved in any of this, but I have been around it and I've seen and heard more than most here on AZ.
When I started playing, which was many years ago, the Centennials were considered to be the best. One of the reasons touted for this was that all the balls, including the cue ball, were the same size and weight. This is what I learned to play with. Not long after that, the Red Circle cue ball came out, and it played much different. I didn't like it at first. Terry Leatherwood in San Antonio showed me that it played different because it was a different weight than the rest of the balls. Somewhere along the way, the Centennials began to be produced by Saluc, the maker of the Aramith balls. At that point, I believe the Centennials changed to be the same as the Aramith balls and the cue ball no longer weighed he same as the rest of the set.
But, we all adjusted, and that became the new normal.
Even today, depending on what pool room I go to, I expect to find different cue balls. Some are just worn out, but others are cheap knock off's of the real red circle or they are just plain cheap balls. One particular room, for whatever reason, has light cue balls. Many players struggle to play in there because the cue ball just doesn't go where they expect it to go. Some know it's lighter and compensate. Some don't have a clue, but they adjust to it anyway, and some never adjust and just stay away from that pool room. Let's face it, we have to be able to adjust. It's just part of the game we play.
Now to the Cyclops balls.
I first saw them at the BCA Trade show several years ago in Chicago. I used them on our table in the booth and I thought they played fine. I didn't like the colors, but they played pretty much as I would have expected any good ball to play. The next year at the BCA, the same thing. I knew that Diamond, probably the biggest promoter and table provider for amateur events in the country, was not happy with Aramith and was working with the Cyclops guys. If my memory serves me right it took 2 to 3 years for Diamond to hook up with these balls. I also recall conversations that I had with the Owner of Cyclops, and he stated that these balls were modeled after the original Centennials. They had a higher content of Phenolic and were much more consistent in weight than the other balls out there. The higher phenolic content made sense to me as I felt that they balls "cut" very cleanly. It also made sense to me about the weight. The more I played with them, the more I could see a difference in how the cue ball reacted. This reminded me of the Centennial days, and it all made sense.
As I understand it now, Diamond is the US Distributor for the Cyclops balls.
As to all the problems expressed with them, I have some questions, as well as some recommendations. I've been watching all the discussions both here and on facebook and I see some confusion over the term "skid". Way back when I started playing, the better players all complained when the local Click's would recover all the tables. They would all say that the new cloth "skids". What they meant was that the cloth was slippery and the ball didn't grab with top spin or draw as well as the older cloth did. So, the cue balls didn't go where they were expecting them to go. Several years later, I experienced what snooker players call "Bad Contact". Basically, it's a cut shot where extreme friction between the cue ball and the object ball cause the shot to miss like it was hit much fuller than it was. At that time, all the players around me called it a "skid". I believe this is the proper use of the term, and slippery cloth is slippery cloth. But, I've seen several posts talking about "skid" but describing slippery cloth. Throw all this into the "grapevine" and you've got a real mess.
So I have not, after using the cylcops balls for more than a few years, seen any issue with the real term of "skid". Meaning bad contact. Last year at the BCA Nationals the tables were very slippery because of the new cloth, but that's not "skid".
I have noticed, only more recently, the cue ball roll a little funny like it was very slightly off balance. Certainly, this is something that should be addressed. If the Cyclops cue balls have developed issues, then I'm sure Greg Sullivan will be or is already all over it. I know Greg well enough to know that he want's the very best. It's possible that with the increased production volume they've run into some unforeseen issues.
I think the important part is to have a good professional discussion about it. That discussion should be between Diamond or the promoters and the players who have a concern about the equipment. I also believe that none of this should be public. It should not be on AZ, and it shouldn't be anything that any of us need to hear about. Not even myself and I'm in the industry. Openly criticizing the promoters or the sponsors that the promoters have worked very hard to get can only do harm to the future of these or any Pro level events. If a company, who is potentially interested in sponsoring pool, witnesses these public criticism's of the current sponsors, they will be reluctant to step into the pool venue.
Please, take this behind closed doors, where it belongs, and work out the issues. It will be better for everyone when that happens.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
When I started playing, which was many years ago, the Centennials were considered to be the best. One of the reasons touted for this was that all the balls, including the cue ball, were the same size and weight. This is what I learned to play with. Not long after that, the Red Circle cue ball came out, and it played much different. I didn't like it at first. Terry Leatherwood in San Antonio showed me that it played different because it was a different weight than the rest of the balls. Somewhere along the way, the Centennials began to be produced by Saluc, the maker of the Aramith balls. At that point, I believe the Centennials changed to be the same as the Aramith balls and the cue ball no longer weighed he same as the rest of the set.
But, we all adjusted, and that became the new normal.
Even today, depending on what pool room I go to, I expect to find different cue balls. Some are just worn out, but others are cheap knock off's of the real red circle or they are just plain cheap balls. One particular room, for whatever reason, has light cue balls. Many players struggle to play in there because the cue ball just doesn't go where they expect it to go. Some know it's lighter and compensate. Some don't have a clue, but they adjust to it anyway, and some never adjust and just stay away from that pool room. Let's face it, we have to be able to adjust. It's just part of the game we play.
Now to the Cyclops balls.
I first saw them at the BCA Trade show several years ago in Chicago. I used them on our table in the booth and I thought they played fine. I didn't like the colors, but they played pretty much as I would have expected any good ball to play. The next year at the BCA, the same thing. I knew that Diamond, probably the biggest promoter and table provider for amateur events in the country, was not happy with Aramith and was working with the Cyclops guys. If my memory serves me right it took 2 to 3 years for Diamond to hook up with these balls. I also recall conversations that I had with the Owner of Cyclops, and he stated that these balls were modeled after the original Centennials. They had a higher content of Phenolic and were much more consistent in weight than the other balls out there. The higher phenolic content made sense to me as I felt that they balls "cut" very cleanly. It also made sense to me about the weight. The more I played with them, the more I could see a difference in how the cue ball reacted. This reminded me of the Centennial days, and it all made sense.
As I understand it now, Diamond is the US Distributor for the Cyclops balls.
As to all the problems expressed with them, I have some questions, as well as some recommendations. I've been watching all the discussions both here and on facebook and I see some confusion over the term "skid". Way back when I started playing, the better players all complained when the local Click's would recover all the tables. They would all say that the new cloth "skids". What they meant was that the cloth was slippery and the ball didn't grab with top spin or draw as well as the older cloth did. So, the cue balls didn't go where they were expecting them to go. Several years later, I experienced what snooker players call "Bad Contact". Basically, it's a cut shot where extreme friction between the cue ball and the object ball cause the shot to miss like it was hit much fuller than it was. At that time, all the players around me called it a "skid". I believe this is the proper use of the term, and slippery cloth is slippery cloth. But, I've seen several posts talking about "skid" but describing slippery cloth. Throw all this into the "grapevine" and you've got a real mess.
So I have not, after using the cylcops balls for more than a few years, seen any issue with the real term of "skid". Meaning bad contact. Last year at the BCA Nationals the tables were very slippery because of the new cloth, but that's not "skid".
I have noticed, only more recently, the cue ball roll a little funny like it was very slightly off balance. Certainly, this is something that should be addressed. If the Cyclops cue balls have developed issues, then I'm sure Greg Sullivan will be or is already all over it. I know Greg well enough to know that he want's the very best. It's possible that with the increased production volume they've run into some unforeseen issues.
I think the important part is to have a good professional discussion about it. That discussion should be between Diamond or the promoters and the players who have a concern about the equipment. I also believe that none of this should be public. It should not be on AZ, and it shouldn't be anything that any of us need to hear about. Not even myself and I'm in the industry. Openly criticizing the promoters or the sponsors that the promoters have worked very hard to get can only do harm to the future of these or any Pro level events. If a company, who is potentially interested in sponsoring pool, witnesses these public criticism's of the current sponsors, they will be reluctant to step into the pool venue.
Please, take this behind closed doors, where it belongs, and work out the issues. It will be better for everyone when that happens.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Not just that but I think they act weird to the cue tip in extreme English or draws.
Some players I play with seem to think they miscue more often with the Cyclops.
I don't know about that though.
But if a broke shovel is all you got you make the best of it.
Easy to say when your not one of the guys trying to make a living. Off this game.
Sounds like the q ball is the main problem so request to use a red circle or whatever. As long your using those strange pastel colored balls people will know why there using.
For the record I own both centenials and super aramith pros and if I had to replace either I wouldn't be buying those Easter egg balls any sooner then I would be buying the tv balls aramith makes lol but I wouldn't not play in a tournament either. Anyone remember those elephant balls they used to use. Weird swirled colors. Lol that would have bothered me more.
Good to see some common sense still exists.
I will add that until some comparison testing is done, I would not jump onto any particular band wagon. Opinions are subjective, facts are not.
By the way...for those inclined to think about it, imagine switching from ivory balls to clay and/or phenolic balls. It was a nightmare but it had to happen. Maybe, just maybe, a better ball can be made. Maybe it can't. But either way we won't know until it's tried ..