Daryl Peach safety after the Break

[T-dog]

I once had a guy get upset and threaten to quit a tournament match against me because I played safe when I had ball in hand but no chance to pocket the lowest numbered ball. This just exposes someone like him as a complete moron. Don't be like him.

I had a guy quit a tournament after I played a safe on him after I made a ball on the break. It was a good one too, no matter what he did, I was out. He just broke down and quit. He didnt come back for like 3 months and I felt that was a good victory by me. Safed him so bad he quit for 3 months. lol

 

[Bobkitty]

So I'm having a discussion on the possibility of poor sportsmanship involving Daryl Peach and an opponent on the GB9 Ball tour.

Peach is up 7-3 (race to 9?) and his opponent fouls on the break. Then Peach plays a safe of the 1 ball of the frozen rack to 3 foul him.

First I would like to say that this is perfectly a legal shot and he did make it legally but the question is... Do you think with such a commanding lead against a weaker player he should have just broke the balls and run out?

Personally If I was in Peach's position I would've broke and continued to play the rack. It just seems like a little unsportsmanlike to do that when having a strong lead against someone in the first round of this Tour.

Thoughts...
https://m.facebook.com/groups/289229958075317?view=permalink&id=498673273797650

Has anyone figured out how to watch the video? Clicking on it does not work?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Has anyone figured out how to watch the video? Clicking on it does not work?

Someone pointed out above that the link is in a Closed Group and you need to be a member of the group. You could join the group, I suppose.

Yet another reason to stay away from FacePlant.

 

[GideonF]

Has anyone figured out how to watch the video? Clicking on it does not work?

I found the video on Facebook - on Kamuii's page. Not sure if this will work for non-FB users. https://www.facebook.com/KamuiBrand/videos/1461586263852134/?hc_ref=SEARCH

If it doesn't work, I can tell you that the opponent miscues and misses the pack. Peach plays the standard thin off the 1b and to the foot rail, but does not get behind the pack (leaving the one-rail kick off the head rail). The opponent shoots the 1 rail kick but catches the 1b thin and scratches in the corner.

 

[Bobkitty]

I found the video on Facebook - on Kamuii's page. Not sure if this will work for non-FB users. https://www.facebook.com/KamuiBrand/videos/1461586263852134/?hc_ref=SEARCH

If it doesn't work, I can tell you that the opponent miscues and misses the pack. Peach plays the standard thin off the 1b and to the foot rail, but does not get behind the pack (leaving the one-rail kick off the head rail). The opponent shoots the 1 rail kick but catches the 1b thin and scratches in the corner.

That worked. Thanks. Used the rules, so smart and fair play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I found the video on Facebook - on Kamuii's page. Not sure if this will work for non-FB users. https://www.facebook.com/KamuiBrand/videos/1461586263852134/?hc_ref=SEARCH

If it doesn't work, I can tell you that the opponent miscues and misses the pack. Peach plays the standard thin off the 1b and to the foot rail, but does not get behind the pack (leaving the one-rail kick off the head rail). The opponent shoots the 1 rail kick but catches the 1b thin and scratches in the corner.

So he's on two. I wonder if Peach 3-fouls him. The Kamui video ends early.

 

[AlienObserver]

Should the ref explain the rules to a player? In the best of all possible worlds, the player would know the rules. I think snooker has the better rule which does not allow the ref to explain the rules.

This is getting completely out of the original topic of this thread and i apologize, but while i agree with you, a ref shouldn't have to explain the rules to a player, that's not exactly what I was pointing out. I was pointing out that it is clear as day that the ref in this perticular case is not sure or she is ignorant about the actual rules of this situation. She didn't explain the rules to the player, she actualy asked the player about them.

 

[jay helfert]

The rule that a player must take a shot is kind of obscure. It is not explicit. There is no way within the rules for a player to end his inning except to shoot a shot, to commit a foul, or to concede. (I suppose passing on a push out might be counted, but that voids the inning rather than ends it.)

I think that most players are as ignorant about this point as the fouler, and that seems to include most players in major tournaments.

Should the ref explain the rules to a player? In the best of all possible worlds, the player would know the rules. I think snooker has the better rule which does not allow the ref to explain the rules.

Bob, in all my years of officiating pool, I never once explained the rules to a player in the course of a match. That is not my responsibility. It is the responsibility of the player to know the rules. When asked by a player to explain how I will call a shot if he shoots it a certain way, my response has always been, "You shoot it and I will call it." That's the end of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.

Questions regarding bathroom breaks, the use of shot clocks, use of jump cues, etc. are within the parameter that I will gladly explain if asked. That's about it though. When I see a referee explaining to a player how to hit a shot legally it makes me cringe a little. That is not his job. This type of conversation comes up often when the cue ball is frozen to an object ball. Once again, if directed at me I will tell them, "you hit it and I will call it." :smile:

 

[Bob Jewett]

... When I see a referee explaining to a player how to hit a shot legally it makes me cringe a little. That is not his job. ...

Well, if there was only one set of rules for pool, life would be much simpler. Unfortunately major tournaments have their own idiosyncratic changes and generally for no good purpose. It is understandable that some players might be confused about which "special" rules apply in the current situation.

When was the last time you saw a non-complying event publish a sheet of departures from the WSR?

 

[KRJ]

In Baseball, the only let down is too STOP stealing bases late in a game, with a huge lead. But, if folks hit them in to score, so be it. But, if you continue to steal it looks like you are piling on and running up the score. But, you are still swinging the bat to get a hit, Nobody makes an out on purpose. heck, you may even try to hit a home run since it won't matter much if you strike out, so a good time to go for it when you might not have tried. Just don't steal a base. It's an unwritten rule that usually is respected. And when it's not, someone usually gets a fastball in their ribs.

In pool, I don't think it translate. You play to win, because anything can happen. And it shows less respect by not trying. I want Earl or SVB to destroy me, not give me a game or two to make me feel good. Thus, what ever games you took, you know you earned them

Everyone loses at pool, everyone. There has never been an undefeated pool player that I ever heard of. Thus, if you don't know how to take a loss gracefully by now, then the problem is you, not the guy winning the match.

 

[Skratch]

3 rail a hanging 9 ball? Childs play 4,5,7 rails might bring a wry smile, no more though cause we are playin serious.

Yes child's play when we're not serious. My friends all know I play 3C as often as I can. 3rails to a corner ball is easy, but they never learned any rail systems or even play the game. For them its a show. LOL. We just move on to the next game and play as usual.

 

[Black-Balled]

This is getting completely out of the original topic of this thread and i apologize, but while i agree with you, a ref shouldn't have to explain the rules to a player, that's not exactly what I was pointing out. I was pointing out that it is clear as day that the ref in this perticular case is not sure or she is ignorant about the actual rules of this situation. She didn't explain the rules to the player, she actualy asked the player about them.

You can only guess at her intent. That is a woman, you know?!

My mom is like that; she will ask a question or 2 and then bury you with your own shovel, in the hole you just dug.

 

[Grantstew]

In pool, I don't think it translate. You play to win, because anything can happen. And it shows less respect by not trying. I want Earl or SVB to destroy me, not give me a game or two to make me feel good. Thus, what ever games you took, you know you earned them

Plus in pool it is a race to a number, not who is ahead after a certain amount of time or innings. You see football teams start to take their foot off the gas when the match is won, but a pool match is never won until it is over.

 

[jay helfert]

Well, if there was only one set of rules for pool, life would be much simpler. Unfortunately major tournaments have their own idiosyncratic changes and generally for no good purpose. It is understandable that some players might be confused about which "special" rules apply in the current situation.

When was the last time you saw a non-complying event publish a sheet of departures from the WSR?

I'd rather not get into a debate about complying with the rules set by the so-called "rules officials" of the WSR. They have so butchered the rules for most pool games that it is amazing anyone complies with them. They change rules willy-nilly depending on which way the wind blows.

I've never seen a list of who these "officials" are but many of the most respected real tournament officials have never been consulted when making decisions regarding rules or if they feel changes are necessary.

For example what genius decided that it was not a win if you made the eight ball on the break in the game of Eight Ball. That is the way Eight Ball was played for decades, you make the eight on the break, you win the game! It is VERY difficult to make the eight on the break and may only happen once or twice a day in tournaments with large fields of players. I know that from experience running the U.S. Bar Table Championship for twelve years.

Call shot Ten Ball is another mistake. They took away the two way shot that is so important in playing this game. HELLO! Ten Ball was actually played for decades just like 9-Ball with the same rules, just one extra ball, which made the game much harder. The ten ball counted as a win on the break and was much harder to accomplish than in 9-Ball. Still is for that matter. It would make far more sense to not count the nine ball on the break since it happens far more frequently than in Ten Ball. But that would be too logical for the brains of the WSR to figure out.

The true idiosyncratic rules are all the new ones foisted on us by people who may or may not even be pool players.

 

[GideonF]

Call shot Ten Ball is another mistake. They took away the two way shot that is so important in playing this game. HELLO! Ten Ball was actually played for decades just like 9-Ball with the same rules, just one extra ball, which made the game much harder. The ten ball counted as a win on the break and was much harder to accomplish than in 9-Ball. Still is for that matter. It would make far more sense to not count the nine ball on the break since it happens far more frequently than in Ten Ball.

What you are describing I think is more clearly described as "call shot, call safe", which is what the WPA rules for 10b now call for (and which I also dislike for removing the two-way shot).

I like the term "call shot" alone to apply to the way it is often played where you have to call the shot, but the incoming player has no option to put you back in if you miss (so the two-way shot can still be played). I'm pretty sure that WAS the WPA rule until fairly recently. Most (maybe all) 10b tournaments around me at play under the call shot (but not call safe) rules.

 

[alstl]

In Baseball, the only let down is too STOP stealing bases late in a game, with a huge lead. But, if folks hit them in to score, so be it. But, if you continue to steal it looks like you are piling on and running up the score. But, you are still swinging the bat to get a hit, Nobody makes an out on purpose. heck, you may even try to hit a home run since it won't matter much if you strike out, so a good time to go for it when you might not have tried. Just don't steal a base. It's an unwritten rule that usually is respected. And when it's not, someone usually gets a fastball in their ribs.

In pool, I don't think it translate. You play to win, because anything can happen. And it shows less respect by not trying. I want Earl or SVB to destroy me, not give me a game or two to make me feel good. Thus, what ever games you took, you know you earned them

Everyone loses at pool, everyone. There has never been an undefeated pool player that I ever heard of. Thus, if you don't know how to take a loss gracefully by now, then the problem is you, not the guy winning the match.

When Whitey Herzog was managing the Cardinals and had a team focused on speed an opposing manager complained when a Cardinal player stole a base with the Cardinals leading comfortably. I liked Whitey's reply - You tell your home run hitters to stop trying to hit home runs and I'll tell my base stealers to stop stealing bases.

Pool players who complain about safeties are the ones who aren't good at safety play.

 

[KRJ]

Plus in pool it is a race to a number, not who is ahead after a certain amount of time or innings. You see football teams start to take their foot off the gas when the match is won, but a pool match is never won until it is over.

Yep, good point. Up 13-2 in a race to 15, is NOT the same thing as the 9th inning

 

[KRJ]

When Whitey Herzog was managing the Cardinals and had a team focused on speed an opposing manager complained when a Cardinal player stole a base with the Cardinals leading comfortably. I liked Whitey's reply - You tell your home run hitters to stop trying to hit home runs and I'll tell my base stealers to stop stealing bases.

Pool players who complain about safeties are the ones who aren't good at safety play.

Yeah, Whitey was a hoot. And unfortunately, some of his players had to pay the price for not following the unwritten rule. I've not see any teams do it recently. Guys just throw to hard now. More guys throw 95mph or harder today then ever before. Nobody wants 99mph heater in the knee and cost your star hitter a week on the DL.

I agree with the safety reference, it is usually the "shotmaker" who hates them the most

 

[pt109]

Meanwhile, back at the pool table....Peach made a terrible choice on the hook.
...the trick is to thin the one-ball and come back into the pack at the bottom of the diamond.
...takes away all one rail and three rail hits.

Does that sound mean?....Atilla the pt

 

[jay helfert]

What you are describing I think is more clearly described as "call shot, call safe", which is what the WPA rules for 10b now call for (and which I also dislike for removing the two-way shot).

I like the term "call shot" alone to apply to the way it is often played where you have to call the shot, but the incoming player has no option to put you back in if you miss (so the two-way shot can still be played). I'm pretty sure that WAS the WPA rule until fairly recently. Most (maybe all) 10b tournaments around me at play under the call shot (but not call safe) rules.

Too many rules spoils the game, not enhances it. 9-Ball still works because it's simple and easy to understand; make the nine you win the game, miss and it's the other guy's turn. Ten Ball came along because the skill level of the top players increased so much. IMO Ten Ball should be played with the same rules as 9-Ball.