Deep Knowledge

[Bob Jewett]

If this was hit with following English I would think that the 70% would be closer to 50%?

If you have a chance to get to a table, try and see. It may depend on the table.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

 

[bb9ball]

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

Nice find, Bob.

Maybe, it is more common in snooker with a little more shelf area to help hide the cue ball and the rounded rail doesn't automatically lead to the pocket.

 

[straightline]

Earlier we saw the side pocket corner hook from Pat Fleming's instructional video. Here is the shot in play in a tournament in 1987:

https://youtu.be/Xo0RYMP8F7k?t=175

Go to 2:55 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

It's interesting that the commentators knew exactly what Alex was going to play.

Even though the play worked do you think the 6 should have been shot clear of the pocket? Could have easily backfired.

 

[lfigueroa]

All I can say is that Sigel, Rempe and Fleming are all of the school that you should hit with follow on sharp angle breaks and hit with draw on shallow angle breaks. Keep it simple and don't over hit the shot. That seems to be enough for them, and I don't think they are just simplifying the shot for mere mortals. I think they figure you get a next shot most times when you break like that. On the other hand, maybe they do more than they say/realize when it is not an ideal break and only a few balls are expected to pop out. There are some obvious ball rolls that they certainly are aware of and would play to.

Tony Robles is the only one I've seen to talk at length on tracking balls for break shots.

Did you watch the Nick van den Berg and Christoph Reintjes match?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U--hXVw4q2A

On several break shots they both would place the tip of their cue in the center of the corner pocket opposite the break ball and seem to use their cue to check the CB contact point on the opposite side of the rack. I think in some way they were looking for a spot to go into the stack.

Lou Figueroa

 

[measureman]

If you have a chance to get to a table, try and see. It may depend on the table.

I changed my post that the 70% would be near 100 % with following English.
I've been using the double the distance method for over 60 years.
I never thought about math and such just played it on instinct.

 

[ShootingArts]

endstink

I changed my post that the 70% would be near 100 % with following English.
I've been using the double the distance method for over 60 years.
I never thought about math and such just played it on instinct.

I mostly play on endstink myself! After so many years and so many shots if I just think pocket the ball and get the cue ball to here it works pretty good. sometimes I add a little cyphering but I can struggle with deciding I need a tip and a half of english at 11:30.

I think where I want the cue ball, I line up the shot and spin without more thought and it works pretty well. Somewhere in my mind I know where to hit the cue ball and how hard but it is difficult to bring it out into the light of day. A lot like driving a car, doing it without though is easy, trying to micromanage every little detail is hard.

Hu

 

[Bob Jewett]

Even though the play worked do you think the 6 should have been shot clear of the pocket? Could have easily backfired.

Davis did nearly make the pink with the 3 cushion kick, but I think Higgins had to hit the shot with some speed to stun the cue ball to the jaw and not let it roll forward.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... On kick shots nearly parallel to the cushion, the cue ball comes off the cushion at only 70% of the slope going in if the cue ball is rolling. This is true even if the cue ball has reverse (cushion side) side spin.

Here is a diagram to make it clearer. On this shot the cue ball is on the head string and the shot is to just above the side pocket as shown by the ghost ball, with the cue stick passing over the first diamond. A 100% bounce or perfect mirror reflection is shown to the 2 ball. If the cue ball is rolling softly into the cushion, it will usually go to about the 3 ball or what you might call a 70% bounce. This happens with either right or left side spin on the cue ball.

 

[dr_dave]

Here is a diagram to make it clearer. On this shot the cue ball is on the head string and the shot is to just above the side pocket as shown by the ghost ball, with the cue stick passing over the first diamond. A 100% bounce or perfect mirror reflection is shown to the 2 ball. If the cue ball is rolling softly into the cushion, it will usually go to about the 3 ball or what you might call a 70% bounce. This happens with either right or left side spin on the cue ball.


View attachment 557524

Bob,

FYI, I just added a quote of your posts at the bottom of the page here:

Shallow Angle Contact-Point Mirror Kick System

Good work,
Dave

 

[Dan Harriman]

endstink




I mostly play on endstink myself! After so many years and so many shots if I just think pocket the ball and get the cue ball to here it works pretty good. sometimes I add a little cyphering but I can struggle with deciding I need a tip and a half of english at 11:30.

I think where I want the cue ball, I line up the shot and spin without more thought and it works pretty well. Somewhere in my mind I know where to hit the cue ball and how hard but it is difficult to bring it out into the light of day. A lot like driving a car, doing it without though is easy, trying to micromanage every little detail is hard.

Hu

I think these fake news organizations that say Mosconi's 526 has been surpassed are doing so out of endstink' - that is just my gut feelin'. Theuy are kinda the mirror image of a shallow cystem'. -

 

[8intheside]

Without a doubt.

 

[Straightpool_99]

All I can say is that Sigel, Rempe and Fleming are all of the school that you should hit with follow on sharp angle breaks and hit with draw on shallow angle breaks. Keep it simple and don't over hit the shot. That seems to be enough for them, and I don't think they are just simplifying the shot for mere mortals. I think they figure you get a next shot most times when you break like that. On the other hand, maybe they do more than they say/realize when it is not an ideal break and only a few balls are expected to pop out. There are some obvious ball rolls that they certainly are aware of and would play to.

Tony Robles is the only one I've seen to talk at length on tracking balls for break shots.

Tracking balls for breakshots work on those extremely small angle shots where you pop out one and continue from there. Anyways, I think the most in depth analysis of (practical)breakshot theory that has been posted for free, has been done by Ralph Eckert. It's been posted once before, it's in German, but I made a translation for it if someone could dig up the thread. In it he explains the mechanics of which ball you hit, and what effect it has on the cue ball:

I'm not going to translate the whole thing over again, but here:
Some quick tips for understanding the video without a full translation (not correctly written but somewhat phonetically in order to easily understand for non natives):
Tief (spielen) = using draw
Stoppball = stun
Hoch (spielen) = using follow
Basisrichtung = general direction/basic direction
die Weisse = the white ball/cue ball
nach Oben = towards the top/up
nach Unten = towards the bottom/down
die Bande = rail
die Ecktasche = corner pocket
"feeh" = sidespin