Definition of "force follow"
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That's when my wife makes me go shopping with her.
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Also...
Basically it's any time that you use follow and hit relatively hard. When there is an angle, it is useful to get around obstacles because it will cause the CB to follow the tangent longer the harder it is hit before the follow kicks in.
It is also useful when using multi-rail positional shape as it can create sidespin on the CB without hitting off center and allow it to change the angle off the initial rail....
Jaden
Basically it's any time that you use follow and hit relatively hard. When there is an angle, it is useful to get around obstacles because it will cause the CB to follow the tangent longer the harder it is hit before the follow kicks in.
It is also useful when using multi-rail positional shape as it can create sidespin on the CB without hitting off center and allow it to change the angle off the initial rail....
Jaden
When I was young, days of horse and carriage etc.., we just considered the previous definition as follow. We used force follow to describe a shot where the CB is hit firmly and contacts the OB full or close to it, and then would take a half turn or perhaps little more roll forward. Like a stop shot, then the CB would go forward a short distance. We measured the distance forward in turns of the CB. It was a touch shot.
Funny !!!!!!
That is the definition I understood as a kid.
For example, if I have a straight in shot, where the object ball is 12 inches from the pocket, and I slow roll the cue ball with only enough force to cause the object ball to reach the pocket and drop, then the cue ball will follow (due to its normal roll) approximately 1 inch (the 12 to 1 rule).
If, however, I shoot the ball hard, and cue it such that when it contacts the object ball it has a very small amount of forward roll (but still travelling - nearly sliding - at high speed), and the cue ball then rolls forward 1 inch, I would have called that "force follow", as Deadon mentioned...
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That is the definition I understood as a kid.
For example, if I have a straight in shot, where the object ball is 12 inches from the pocket, and I slow roll the cue ball with only enough force to cause the object ball to reach the pocket and drop, then the cue ball will follow (due to its normal roll) approximately 1 inch (the 12 to 1 rule).
If, however, I shoot the ball hard, and cue it such that when it contacts the object ball it has a very small amount of forward roll (but still travelling - nearly sliding - at high speed), and the cue ball then rolls forward 1 inch, I would have called that "force follow", as Deadon mentioned...I refer to that as a dead ball. A player described that to me a long time ago. He played back in 30's and 40's and so on. My understanding is that terminology came from straight pool and billiards years ago.
This is how I've heard it described for 50 years . It is used a lot in straight pool break shots to "force" the cue ball thru the rack to spread the balls.
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Here's the definition from my online glossary:
force follow: maximum topspin follow shot hit with speed. This term is used mostly when referring to a firm, nearly straight-in (small cut angle) follow shot.
For related info and demonstrations, see:
Regards,
Dave
To me, this is a good example of what I've always considered force follow. Simply put, I've always thought force follow was a follow shot that first drifts further along the tangent than normally, before the follow takes. This can be done by either striking the CB a little harder to widen the line your CB takes, or..................what I consider to be more controllable.............by striking the CB either center with the idea of letting it pick up some top spin by the time it makes contact with the OB, or even striking the CB about a quarter to half tip above center.
I've diagramed a pretty common situation where I would use force follow. As you can see by the angle on the 8, a typical follow shot would put me on the short side of the 9, or even possible hitting the 9 as diagramed by position A. The cut on the 8 is a little too thick to simply stun it and drift along the tangent. So in this case, I'd strike the CB about a half tip above center and stroke it pretty firm to widen my line and land on the long side of the 9. A good friend of mine once described a force follow shot like the one diagramed here as "an intended stop shot that got away from you." In other words, you're trying to simulate those miss shots where you inadvertently hit the CB above center when you were meaning to hit a stop shot and watched helplessly as your CB eased forward and out of shape.
dave
I've diagramed a pretty common situation where I would use force follow. As you can see by the angle on the 8, a typical follow shot would put me on the short side of the 9, or even possible hitting the 9 as diagramed by position A. The cut on the 8 is a little too thick to simply stun it and drift along the tangent. So in this case, I'd strike the CB about a half tip above center and stroke it pretty firm to widen my line and land on the long side of the 9. A good friend of mine once described a force follow shot like the one diagramed here as "an intended stop shot that got away from you." In other words, you're trying to simulate those miss shots where you inadvertently hit the CB above center when you were meaning to hit a stop shot and watched helplessly as your CB eased forward and out of shape.
dave
Thats also the same shot I described, just a different use of it. BTW, never heard of a stun shot in the 60s,70s, or early 80s. Some of these definitions, including english, are more recent versions.
Force follow may be a good example. Anyone ever heard of Force Draw? Max spin/stroke is the same whether it is top or bottom. I played 14.1 in the early 60s and stroking the QB through, or over, the rack was just that.
Things do change with time. Guess we have to accept changes. English is now Rt, Lt, top or bottom.
Same goes with the Soft Stroke.
Who'd have thunk it.
Force follow may be a good example. Anyone ever heard of Force Draw? Max spin/stroke is the same whether it is top or bottom. I played 14.1 in the early 60s and stroking the QB through, or over, the rack was just that.
Things do change with time. Guess we have to accept changes. English is now Rt, Lt, top or bottom.
Same goes with the Soft Stroke.
Who'd have thunk it.
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I've always understood "force follow" by the definition I posted. I've always understood what you describe, hitting the cue ball hard in such a manner that it contacts the object ball and rolls through a few inches, as "stun follow" or "stun run thru." I could be wrong though it wouldn't be the first time. I'm pretty interested in this too. I didn't know others grew up calling it something else.
I believe 'stun run thru' is the widely used term today. Comes from
the Brits and the wonderful world of Snooker.
Ten-ish, or more, years ago I was watching video of an English 9 Ball
match. One of the players pulled off a postion shot that wasn't clearly
shown. The commentators went on and on about his using 'stun run thru'
Somewhat intrigiued, I spent a couple of years trying to find out what
it was.
Imangine my surprise when I discovered I had been doing it for decades.
Dale<who now understands 'what's in a name'>
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When I think of force follow I think of what Mosconi does in his break shots in this video, second at 4:25.
http://vimeo.com/4957545
High English, inside or outside, level stroke to keep the cue ball from jumping.
http://vimeo.com/4957545
High English, inside or outside, level stroke to keep the cue ball from jumping.
Willie Hoppe defines force-follow in this way: "Force-follows are used when the first object ball and the cue ball are only three inches or less apart, measuring from the inside of the balls, and follow action is necessary to reach the second object ball." He goes on to distinguish it from a push shot: "If the shot is correctly executed, the cue ball will momentarily stop, after impact with the first object ball, before picking up its follow action and gaining rapid speed after its slight halt." (Billiards as It Should be Played, p.39)
I like the definition that The Monk gives. I believe he states that a force follow is actually the same as any draw stroke but with english applied above center of the cue whether than below center.
When I first heard that I thought it did not sound 'right' but after testing it during actual practice I feel it is very accurate.
When I first heard that I thought it did not sound 'right' but after testing it during actual practice I feel it is very accurate.
PocketsPro
Registered
Force Follow is Spin vs Roll
A rolling cueball will follow. If you use a high tip and a hard stroke, you will get the cueball to spin forward on the cloth, like peeling out in your car. If the cueball is spinning forward at impact, you have "force follow".
A rolling cueball will follow. If you use a high tip and a hard stroke, you will get the cueball to spin forward on the cloth, like peeling out in your car. If the cueball is spinning forward at impact, you have "force follow".
FWIW, here's the definition from WikiP's glossary of billiard terms:
Force follow
A powerful follow shot with a high degree of top spin on it; usually when the object ball being hit is relatively close to the cue ball and is being hit very full;[5] also known as "prograde top spin" or "prograde follow" (when referring to the action on the shot rather than the shot per se), and as a "jenny" in Australia.
This is what I've always considered force follow. When hitting a an object ball full or almost the cue ball will sort of spin in place after contact before proceeding forward. You can also use force follow to kill a cue ball after hitting a rail. I'm sure when you were a beginner and were shooting at a hanger in the corner and needed to get the CB up to the other end of the table, you would hit a follow shot and be surprised when the CB died after hitting the rail instead of coming back up table. This is an example of force follow to my understanding.
Force follow
A powerful follow shot with a high degree of top spin on it; usually when the object ball being hit is relatively close to the cue ball and is being hit very full;[5] also known as "prograde top spin" or "prograde follow" (when referring to the action on the shot rather than the shot per se), and as a "jenny" in Australia.
This is what I've always considered force follow. When hitting a an object ball full or almost the cue ball will sort of spin in place after contact before proceeding forward. You can also use force follow to kill a cue ball after hitting a rail. I'm sure when you were a beginner and were shooting at a hanger in the corner and needed to get the CB up to the other end of the table, you would hit a follow shot and be surprised when the CB died after hitting the rail instead of coming back up table. This is an example of force follow to my understanding.