delrin question

KJ Cues said:
If you want to change-it-up for the better, why not just get rid of the Delrin? Why continue to fight with a mtrl. that was never intended to be bonded?
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I now seldom use Delrin for butt caps any longer as the style of cues has changed over the years. When I build cues that have a classic look to them then I use Delrin as it was very populer during that period. Delrin has it's draw abcks such as nothing sticking to it but then again it has it's assets. Delrin is nearly indestructable. It doesn't chip or crack and if it gets dirty just wipe it clean. If Delrin was still popular, there probably wouldn't be 20 or 25 people a year getting their butt caps replaced by me.

Dick
 
KJ Cues said:
If you want to change-it-up for the better, why not just get rid of the Delrin? Why continue to fight with a mtrl. that was never intended to be bonded?
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I dunno if stainless steel or brass pins were meant to be epoxied to wood either.
MECHANICAL bond is needed and epoxy just fills the threads as Showmon posted here one time.
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
When I first started building cues I wondered how good a bond there was with stainless steel pins and wood (withought tapping the wood) so I took a 5/16-18 SS Pin and and dropped it into the hole with Devcon 5 minuite epoxy. I waited 24 hours and tried to remove the pin with a pair of plyers to no avail. Next I clamped it into my big vice, got a crow bar and wedged the forked end around the pin and started hitting it with an 8 pound sledge hammer. I beat all the wood from around the pin but the glue never failed. Try that with delrin :).

Good Cuemaking,
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That's kinda funny. I've seen some pins come out.:eek: One from BS Bob cue at the pool hall, but who cares?:) Prolly white glue.
One inch of 3/4 16 threads and two glue channels would keep that delrin there pretty good. If you a weight bolt holding onto it, I dunno.
 
Reading this thread I may have missed it but cutting grooves in the tenon doesn't change the problem which is that the delrin can still rotate around the tenon.

If you want to stop this just cut the groove in the delrin itself. The groove will fill with the epoxy and when it hardens, the only way the cap can rotate is if you can shear the epoxy off the tenon and this is slmost impossible in normal circumstances. To do it best, thread the tenon and cap before grooving and gluing.

You could also perfectly center everything, make a tight tenon and use a screw to hold the cap on the cue.
 
KJ Cues said:
If you want to change-it-up for the better, why not just get rid of the Delrin? Why continue to fight with a mtrl. that was never intended to be bonded?
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Unless you know how to do it right - to remove the Delrin butt caps
that I have put on many unthreaded tenons - you have to
clamp visegrips on them and beat 'em with a hammer.

Other than current prefrence for style,
Acetal<like Micarta, Delrin is a brand name, not a type of plastic>
makes a much better butt cap than phenolic.

As Dick pointed out, there is a certain 'classic' look that
many cue buyers strongly prefer.

Twenty years ago, you couldn't give away a Titlist,
a Hoppe ring butt, or a cue with a leather wrap - let alone
no wrap.

Dale<plauged by the memory thing>
 
I love the classics. I wont make a cue without delrin or ivory unless a hoppe. Classic cues without delrin looks odd to me
 
Enco makes 3/4 taps and dies 10, 14 , & 16 thread , and die stock holders I believe , if you have to thread your butt caps on ...:cool:
 
Eric Wynne said:
Enco makes 3/4 taps and dies 10, 14 , & 16 thread , and die stock holders I believe , if you have to thread your butt caps on ...:cool:
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I have found, for the most part, that metal dies do not cut large, coarse threads very well in Maple. They rip and tear the wood to much. The Beal system, although more expensive, is made for cutting wood. When using steel joints I use 5/8X11 thread and I use a router to cut the thread in Maple and other non-oily woods. I then clean up the threads with a die. I just bought a 5/8X11 compression die from Atlas for the joints although I haven't tried it out yet. They also have a 3/4X16 compression die.

Dick
 
Eric Wynne said:
Enco makes 3/4 taps and dies 10, 14 , & 16 thread , and die stock holders I believe , if you have to thread your butt caps on ...:cool:
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3/4 is too big.

steve posted the right size already 5/8-11
 
dave sutton said:
3/4 is too big.

steve posted the right size already 5/8-11
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That sure sounded like a very assured statement. Would you mind explaining your most definitive statement that 3/4 is to large and that 5/8 is correct or is this just - Your opinion? Most of my cues now use Phenolic butt caps but years ago I probably made a couple of hundred cues using Delrin and a 3/4 tenon. Did I do something 15 years ago that is a time bomb waiting to explode that I've got to worry about now?

There are many ways to construct a cue. Everyman has his own parameters that work for him. This certainly doesn't necessarily make some one Else's wrong. Now there are some Parameters, that cue-makers have determined through trial and error are actually wrong or not long lasting in building a cue. Building a cue and using paste or super glue to hold major components together is one thing that comes to mind. I think most would agree that this would be a very bad technique. Notice that I never said everybody as I know of at least one who would argue this point but then of coarse, he has magic on his side. This is why I am questioning your statement. It sounds so definitive and not just an opinion so I want to know the reasons for the statement.

Dick
 
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dave sutton said:
3/4 is too big.

steve posted the right size already 5/8-11
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Dave, are you gluing the 5/8 nylon to the delrin then screwing the other end of the nylon to the wood tenon?
3/4 is standard size tenon afaik.
All C,D,E rings afaik have 3/4 id.
I actually like 7/8 for buttsleeve and turn the end down to 3/4 for the delrin buttcap.
 
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Her are some links for Dr Mikes cyroepoxy for delrin I havent tried it but maybe someone here has.

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83424

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=8635

Did a search for " adhesive for acetal" also search for Pom.

http://www.reltekllc.com/bondit-b45th.html

I have a friend that uses this stuff for carpet rubber edging on concrete or any trim that he cant get to stick. Then he uses this stuff.

Just thought it might help.

Craig
 
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Gosh, I've been threading a 3/4 tenon for 20+ years with my delrin butt caps, why is that wrong? Is a smaller weaker tenon a better idea on the end of the cue?

I've never used a die on any wood threads.
 
rhncue said:
That sure sounded like a very assured statement. Would you mind explaining your most definitive statement that 3/4 is to large and that 5/8 is correct or is this just - Your opinion? Most of my cues now use Phenolic butt caps but years ago I probably made a couple of hundred cues using Delrin and a 3/4 tenon. Did I do something 15 years ago that is a time bomb waiting to explode that I've got to worry about now?

There are many ways to construct a cue. Everyman has his own parameters that work for him. This certainly doesn't necessarily make some one Else's wrong. Now there are some Parameters, that cue-makers have determined through trial and error are actually wrong or not long lasting in building a cue. Building a cue and using paste or super glue to hold major components together is one thing that comes to mind. I think most would agree that this would be a very bad technique. Notice that I never said everybody as I know of at least one who would argue this point but then of coarse, he has magic on his side. This is why I am questioning your statement. It sounds so definitive and not just an opinion so I want to know the reasons for the statement.

Dick
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Well it seems you answered your own question. Veryone has there own way. For me that's too big. I dont want to remove any if my 3/4 in tenon. I'd rather put 5/8 inside of that tenon. I think its stronger. For me that is.

You have a very bad habit of jumping down pols throat. Truth is I'd rather not have your help if thats your reaction
 
JoeyInCali said:
Dave, are you gluing the 5/8 nylon to the delrin then screwing the other end of the nylon to the wood tenon?
3/4 is standard size tenon afaik.
All C,D,E rings afaik have 3/4 id.
I actually like 7/8 for buttsleeve and turn the end down to 3/4 for the delrin buttcap.
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As they said in 'Fiddler on the Roof'' - Tradition...

Balabushka used 5/8 tho not exactly a tenon
Szambodi used 5/8 tenon, as did Bill Stroud, Tim Scruggs
and a host of others.

I was so hot damned impressed I just fell in line and use 5/8 also.

Dale<who thinks 50,000,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong>
 
You have a very bad habit of jumping down pols throat. Truth is I'd rather not have your help if thats your reaction.
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surprised this i haven't seen more of these posts.
 
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