Derby City Favortism...

SUPERSTAR said:
Guess you like missing the point completely then.
Nice.
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Or maybe I'm right?

Do I think Johnny should have ended up forfeiting? Yes

Do I think the original poster would have been less upset if he was forced to play a pushover instead of world champion? Yes

Do I think this post would have happened if the original poster would still be mad enough to make this post if he would have won? No

The original poster saw he drew Johnny that round and I'm sure had a sigh of relief when the forfeit was a lock. Then when they gotta end up playing, they have even less of a chance than they would have to begin with because mentally, they feel they already won.
 
Tap Tap Tap

Whodat? said:
Eric,

You and I do not know one another, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Professional rules are professional rules.

A recent incident in pro golf comes to mind: I believe it was Jim Furyk, one of the top professionals in his sport and an incredibly popular player, was 12 minutes late for his tee time in a tournament last year, and as a result he was DQ'd from the entire event. Mind you, he wasn't even late for his tournament tee time - he was late for his pro-am tee time, which the players are required to play in.

He woke up late, said he hadn't set a wake-up call but had relied on his cell phone alarm. He showed up without socks or something silly like that because he was trying so hard to make that tee time.

Instead, because of 12 little minutes, he had to pack his stuff and leave or watch everyone else play from the clubhouse. JA was 40 minutes late.

JA is a legend, no one disputes that. But that legend status does not put him outside of the rules. It's not fair to accuse the opponent of trying to win by forfeit. He had a right to win by forfeit since Mr. Archer did not show up for his match time. There is no dishonor for Mr. Wheeler in expecting the rules to be enforced and being disappointed that the tournament directors chose not to enforce them.

(BTW, Jim Furyk walked up to the official and said "Disqualified?" The official said yes, and that was the end of the story. In an interview later, Jim doesn't blame anyone but himself, and while he was disappointed, he understands that the rules are the rules, and everyone else that morning followed them. He knows it wasn't a decision that the officials made but that it was plain fact that he was disqualified for missing his start time.)
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This is a great anaology and an example of what should have happened in this situation. I would like to point out that this tournament was extremely important in moving on and gaining points in the Fed Ex Cup standings that Mr. Furyk lost out on. This may have been the incentive to drive him in the next 2 tournaments to win and place high enough to win the Fed Ex Cup and player of the year gainining extra millions of dollars. My question then is couldn't JA have been driven by a forfeit to win the tournament after that situation? A different draw, who knows, he could have still won. (that is assuming he did not have a loss at the time).
If I was Mr. Wheeler I would have unscrewed and and refused to play.
 
cleary said:
Do I think the original poster would have been less upset if he was forced to play a pushover instead of world champion? Yes

Do I think this post would have happened if the original poster would still be mad enough to make this post if he would have won? No
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Actually, i think that the OP would have been pissed off regardless of WHO they bent the rules for.
Even if he won.
Why play a match if the rules state that you clearly don't have to after a certain amount of time?

The only difference is that instead of a favored player rules issue, it would have been strictly an issue about lackluster rules enforcement, which leads down the same road about idiot spineless TD's running things.

But the reality is, your situation is just too rare of an occurrence as most pushovers in pro events, get forfeited when they are late.
And i'd be willing to bet, that if a pushover was late for a match AGAINST a pro, that a forfeit would almost be guaranteed if they went over the allotted time.

Pro's ALWAYS complain to TD's when someone makes THEM wait.
That just goes without saying.
 
At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...? You should have ask to talk to someone who does have the authority to forfiet him cause times up!
 
Wybrook said:
I had to play Johnny Archer in the 7th round of the 9 ball on Saturday at 11:00am. I got there and hit balls early as well as most of the other players and the matches were announced a few minutes after 11. Everyone started their matches except for me.

At 11:10 am, Johnny wasn't there so I went to the tournament desk and advised them and the woman attending to the tournament told me he was on the clock and had 5 minutes.

At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...?

At 11:30 am, Johnny shows up and I am told to play, even though he is a half hour late.

I was a little bothered by this whole episode and it reflected in my game and I henceforth, lost the match. I went and found the tournament director who was not present during the earlier dealings and he said that since he was not present he can't make a decision. I was told to go talk to the "real" head tournament director "Paul Smith", who I looked for and asked for, but he was not around the desk (apparently, just when things like this come up).

I feel a little jaded by this whole situation and wanted to vent a little. There were lots of players forfeited over the tournament, why not this match? The rule was 15 mintutes, as specified in the Player's Meeting and posted on the site. It cost me an extra $300 and possibly more, if I had won the match.

Any thoughts?
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IMHO you got the SHAFT!
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Actually, i think that the OP would have been pissed off regardless of WHO they bent the rules for.
Even if he won.
Why play a match if the rules state that you clearly don't have to after a certain amount of time?

The only difference is that instead of a favored player rules issue, it would have been strictly an issue about lackluster rules enforcement, which leads down the same road about idiot spineless TD's running things.

But the reality is, your situation is just too rare of an occurrence as most pushovers in pro events, get forfeited when they are late.
And i'd be willing to bet, that if a pushover was late for a match AGAINST a pro, that a forfeit would almost be guaranteed if they went over the allotted time.

Pro's ALWAYS complain to TD's when someone makes THEM wait.
That just goes without saying.
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Ok, glad I'm wrong.
 
Nice post Melissa

Melissa Herndon said:
That is all well and good...but Mr Wheeler went to the tournament desk and was told that JA was on the clock and had 5 minutes left. He showed up 1/2 hour later.

That's not a computer problem. It's favoritism.

Melissa
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Ok... I love going to the Derby. It's the best tourney there is, in my opinion. Great progress has been made, especially the time scheduling of matches this year. There will always be some glitches in a tourney this size. In tournies where you have 2 different events running at the same time, or even the Hall of Fame dinner, there can be exceptions made and rescheduling of a match. In those cases, the person who is waiting, should be informed.

In this case, from the info I seen, JA should have been forfeited. At the Executive, I was playing the one pocket. They told us the next round will be drawn at 10am, and play starts at 10:30.... I was down there at 9 hitting balls, they did the draw, and I get Shannon Daulton. They announced that play will start at 11am instead of 10:30. I went to my table and at 11:15 my buddy comes up and asks if we started yet, because it's past start time. I went to the desk, they called his name and told me to go back to my table. 10 minutes later, I go back to the desk, and they tell me they are trying to find him, and flat out refused to put him on the clock... He showed 45 minutes late, and yes, I was hot. I play good enough to win an occasional match from the champions too.

Now, on Shannons behalf, I have to say, he repeatedly apologized for being late, and looked like he overslept. I was still mad enough that it affected my play. While I understand they have earned the right to have a few perks, this should not be one of them.

I have often told people "if I ever hit the lottery for a big chunk, I will invest in a Pro Tour and do what I can to promote our sport". I PROMISE YOU, the rules will apply equally for EVERYONE....
 
Press Release - Press Release

Johnny Archer of the Association of Billiard Professionals has issued a press release on his organization's behalf.

Our twelve core players have met and we have refined our player obligations to the game, the fans, and the promoters. In order to insure our fans have the best possible viewing experience at the tournaments our players participate in, we have set forth the following policies:

1. All players are strongly encouraged to be at their assigned table 15 minutes before their announced match time.
2. At 5 minutes before match time, tardy players will be penalized 1/4 of the match race length.
3. At match start time, players not at their assigned table will be forfeited for that match.
4. If this happens a second time in a given tournament year, that player will forfeit the match in question, and also be suspended from the next tournament.

It is our intention that this new policy will dramatically increase match start time accuracy, help tournaments run faster overall and on schedule, and most importantly, allow our fans to see their favorite players without incident.

Sincerely,
Association of Billiard Professionals
 
nfty9er said:
... My question then is couldn't JA have been driven by a forfeit to win the tournament after that situation? A different draw, who knows, he could have still won. (that is assuming he did not have a loss at the time). ...
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Archer already had one loss -- to Stevie Moore in Round 6. So a forfeit would have put him out of the tournament. The victory against Adam in Round 7 took Archer to Round 8, where he lost to Niels Feijen.
 
good call

SUPERSTAR said:
Johnny Archer is laughing at every single one of you.

He doesn't care, and never will care cause people are too concerned with kissing his ass and worshiping him instead of treating him like everyone else who shows up late.

The TD's and tournament promoters need to stop kissing the "name" players asses and grow a friggin spine already.

Forfeit them and let them go bittch and complain to everyone who will listen till they realize that THEY were the ones who were late.

Any tournament that allows this to happen so that non name players who usually have no sponsorship deals helping them out with the bills can get crapped on by name players who do, is a joke IMO.

But don't expect them to change for you. As long as the name players are happy, they don't care about anyone else.

Believe me, JA and the guys running the show, probably all went out for a round of drinks and probably toasted you "Aaaaawww, some poor little guy wanted a forfeit. Cheers to that mofo! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

Believe me, you forfeit pros who think they are above it all, and start taking potential money out of their pocket, they will fall in line like everyone else.

It's really that simple.
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it was plain out favoritism .:rolleyes:
 
First of all are you sure he wasn't involved in another
match? This happened to me on a couple occasions.
I was in one pocket and banks, the matches often intertwine
I had to forfeit a great player and get no satisfaction
out of the win, that's what I'm there for! I waited almost
forty minutes.
 
Sorry I'm late to this thread guys, but I didn't see it until just now. I forfeit my right to post.
 
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Wybrook said:
I had to play Johnny Archer in the 7th round of the 9 ball on Saturday at 11:00am. I got there and hit balls early as well as most of the other players and the matches were announced a few minutes after 11. Everyone started their matches except for me.

At 11:10 am, Johnny wasn't there so I went to the tournament desk and advised them and the woman attending to the tournament told me he was on the clock and had 5 minutes.

At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...?

At 11:30 am, Johnny shows up and I am told to play, even though he is a half hour late.

I was a little bothered by this whole episode and it reflected in my game and I henceforth, lost the match. I went and found the tournament director who was not present during the earlier dealings and he said that since he was not present he can't make a decision. I was told to go talk to the "real" head tournament director "Paul Smith", who I looked for and asked for, but he was not around the desk (apparently, just when things like this come up).

I feel a little jaded by this whole situation and wanted to vent a little. There were lots of players forfeited over the tournament, why not this match? The rule was 15 mintutes, as specified in the Player's Meeting and posted on the site. It cost me an extra $300 and possibly more, if I had won the match.

Any thoughts?
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Charlie Williams showed up VERY late to my match. I was warming up and drilling everything on the table in the heart of the pocket (banks). In fact I threw up 7 balls on the table and banked out all 7 balls as charlie put his cue together. He gets his cue together, he's there 25 min after our match start time was supposed to be. I offer him the opportunity to shoot. I go have a smoke. I come back and he's almost ready. Hits a couple more, and we play. He missed twice...
All well... I look at it like this, at least I lost to a somebody :)
There's nothing you can do from this point forward except decide you won't let something like this take you out of your game next year.
 
Fatboy said:
Here is all I know,

I was rooming with JA, they called his phone and his ringer was off, they called his pool room in Alanta looking for him, the pool room called him his ringer was off. We assumed they knew he was staying with me, he was in the room and they never called me or the room. When he noticed he had 9 missed calls he ran down stairs. After talking about it we thought everyone there knew I was rooming with him and I never got a call, one time years ago we were rooming and I did get a call for JA-not for a match but for a interview.

We were watching the TV trying to figure out when he played, we should have called the TD's desk-our fault. Or they should have called me. It was a F up for sure. Just thought you would like to know that JA wasnt wasting time or being lazy or disrespectful, he felt real bad about being late and said so to me and Putnam when he got back from the room, he was embarassed about being late. He/I wished they called me. Its not the TD's responsibility, they did think to call his pool room, but forgot about calling me, the room was in my name so thats probably why they didnt call the room. JA never misses matches, He does usually have the ringer off because he is playing and forgets to turn it on. That happens all the time not just at pool tournments.


But he was very embarassed that he was late, it wasnt a move or disrespectful in any way. He dosent roll like that. I hope that clears things up, its the Gods honest truth. It was a mistake on his/our part and they probably just didnt think to call me when they were looking for him, but they didnt waste any time looking for him. I'm sure if they thought about it, I would have got the call and he would have been there on the spot.


As far as favoritizim goes, I really dont know, in that late of a round with they way things timed out most likely they would have held the spot open for anyone, now in the beginning they would enforce the 15 minute rule. But since there was enough time they played the match late no matter who plays. This isnt nit league pool where people try to win by the rules instead of winning by playing pool, "the more rules the lessor the player" thing comes to mind, if they would have DQed him even if there was adaquite time. If there wasnt time then yes JA should have been DQed like anyone else. but since there was time nobody should be DQed-because there is time. Winning by technicalitys is nit league BS IMO. So they made the right call.



best
eric:)
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Keep in mind, the guy that shows up on time is sitting there thinking, I could still be resting, sleeping, I could have eaten something, etc etc... there are sacrifices made to be there on time. All things that can mess with someone when they're about to play a big match against a guy who appears to have made NO sacrifices to be there on time...

Just something to think about... I see it from both sides, which is why I didn't have Charlie forfeited for being so late... thats not how I want to win.
 
cleary said:
Lets be honest here.. if you would have ended up playing and beating bad, would you have made this post?
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What the heck does this OPINION you have do with the rules?

There's a huge difference between right and wrong in life.

One's integrity and actions and how we treat others is who we are as a person and whats right in life.
''Lets be honest'', what a crock/misconstrued statement you threw in there trying to define whats right and wrong in life.
You sound like a rich kid who missed his flight because you arrived at the gate ten minutes late and complained all the way home because the plane and everyone on it didn't wait for you.
 
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PocketPoint said:
Johnny is 30 minutes late, so the match starts with him down 6-0.

Sound fair?
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I like this penalty. It doesn't put the player out of the match, yet still gives his opponent some momentum at 6-0 instead of a slow burn sitting in the chair.

This is the pros' livelihood and docking their pay once in a while hits center pocket. The rules have to be for everybody if we are going to make the game more appealing to present and future players.

There is no right or wrong here... just something everybody knows.

Best,
Mike
 
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