Be glad he is your friend and you can play on that table a lot.--Smitty
Ok. I buy that. But what is the purpose of using the k-66 profile rails that bank consistently short, and the deep shelf where balls hit pretty well hang up, leaving a player no chance to ' cheat ' the pocket or, in some shots, having to ' chinch ' the ball, then play safe. I dont care what the ' pros ' play on, but a room full of diamond pro-am tbls is pretty defeating to the masses of players in most rooms, IMO.
You need to "adjust" your game to a diamond table.
No everyone does. The bonus ball tables have very little shelf on them. The pocket shelf only comes into play on shots that don't enter the pocket cleanly, i.e. glance off the rail before hitting the inside of the pocket. Deeper shelves limit the speed and distance up the rail a ball can hit and go in the pocket without rattling. If you look at Diagram 1 of this article: http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2004/dec04.pdf, it reduces the spikes on the either end of the corner pocket graph. Simply tightening the pockets reduces the target size from all angles (drops the entire graph).I've never read an explanation regarding the deep shelves on Diamond's pockets that made any sense to me. It's hard (if not impossible) to argue that a Diamond table is not a great table, but I don't understand how a deep shelf helps make the table play better. Sure it makes the table play tougher but so does a properly tightened up Gold Crown. The difference is the Gold Crown doesn't have those deep shelves that hang up balls that have historically gone into the pockets.
Why do people like deep shelves?
I've never read an explanation regarding the deep shelves on Diamond's pockets that made any sense to me. It's hard (if not impossible) to argue that a Diamond table is not a great table, but I don't understand how a deep shelf helps make the table play better. Sure it makes the table play tougher but so does a properly tightened up Gold Crown. The difference is the Gold Crown doesn't have those deep shelves that hang up balls that have historically gone into the pockets.
Why do people like deep shelves?
IMO -
I have heard for 20 years about "double shimmed" or "triple shimmed" Gold Crowns and how if you practice on tight pocketed table it will make you a better player.
THATS BS
Here why;
1.) I have seen tight tables make you play differently than you would play on a "normal" table. I mean shortstops that would normally just run out, now would play safe on the same shot. It changes how you play the game.
2.) It eliminated the "cheating" of a pocket to get shape. Again, if you playing on a very tight table, you are basically trying to "cinch" the ball (ie make the ball at the sacrifice of getting good shape on next ball)
It didnt make you a better player, it made you a smarter player on THAT table that you couldnt apply to most other tables.
IMO, Diamonds tables bought into the arguement that "shelf" made a better playing table. It does make it a tougher table but IMO, so many balls "jaw" in the pocket, that people start doing what I described above.
Ken
Diamond did not change the way the game is played in any way, shape or form.
Pros are forced to play good position in order to run a big package now, whereas there was much more cheating of pockets in the GC days. This is why some players from the 80's/90's who refused to adapt can no longer compete.. Too much trying to "open the pocket up" with varying amounts of english, etc.. (Ahem Ahem...)
A well hit ball on a Diamond goes in. A badly hit ball will not. I've watched hundreds of hours of tournaments from the 80's/early 90's, and it was not an uncommon thing at all to see a ball hit the rail 2 feet up from the pocket and still go in.
Diamond did not change the way the game is played in any way, shape or form. Players who could run a six pack on a Gold Crown can run one now on a Diamond. I see all SORTS or packages run on Pro-Cut Diamonds.
The difference is, the pros look much more "professional" now on the Diamonds, than they did on the Gold Crowns. Pros are forced to play good position in order to run a big package now, whereas there was much more cheating of pockets in the GC days. This is why some players from the 80's/90's who refused to adapt can no longer compete.. Too much trying to "open the pocket up" with varying amounts of english, etc.. (Ahem Ahem...)
A well hit ball on a Diamond goes in. A badly hit ball will not. I've watched hundreds of hours of tournaments from the 80's/early 90's, and it was not an uncommon thing at all to see a ball hit the rail 2 feet up from the pocket and still go in.
Trust me... if you are getting constantly "corner hooked" by the pocket facing on a Diamond, then you need to be playing better players who don't keep jawing balls and leaving them deep in the pocket. Be grateful. If you were playing on a GC, the ball would fall and your opponent would be running out.
Complaining about deep shelves on Diamonds is something I've only seen weak players do. As has been stated before, a ball struck between the pocket points goes in. Badly hit balls jaw. It's as simple as that.
Too many people harkening back to a time when the tables forgave sloppy play.
Short Bus Russ
IMO -
I have heard for 20 years about "double shimmed" or "triple shimmed" Gold Crowns and how if you practice on tight pocketed table it will make you a better player.
THATS BS
Here why;
1.) I have seen tight tables make you play differently than you would play on a "normal" table. I mean shortstops that would normally just run out, now would play safe on the same shot. It changes how you play the game.
2.) It eliminated the "cheating" of a pocket to get shape. Again, if you playing on a very tight table, you are basically trying to "cinch" the ball (ie make the ball at the sacrifice of getting good shape on next ball)
It didnt make you a better player, it made you a smarter player on THAT table that you couldnt apply to most other tables.
Point 2
RKC and others could make new rails that would eliminate the need for "double or triple" shiming of pockets on GC. But the normal general "hacks" that usually tried to "hack" up a table made the corners of the rails vertually unplayable. This was especially disappointing play 1 pocket...so bad I would just rather not play.
IMO, Diamonds tables bought into the arguement that "shelf" made a better playing table. It does make it a tougher table but IMO, so many balls "jaw" in the pocket, that people start doing what I described above.
So why do they do that? IMO they are misdirected to do so, by the same folks who want to "triple shim" a GC.
What do I play on at home? A Gold Crown 3 with standard pockets.
Thats my take on it.
Let the lions out to rip me to shreads!
Ken
Diamond did not change the way the game is played in any way, shape or form. Players who could run a six pack on a Gold Crown can run one now on a Diamond. I see all SORTS or packages run on Pro-Cut Diamonds.
The difference is, the pros look much more "professional" now on the Diamonds, than they did on the Gold Crowns. Pros are forced to play good position in order to run a big package now, whereas there was much more cheating of pockets in the GC days. This is why some players from the 80's/90's who refused to adapt can no longer compete.. Too much trying to "open the pocket up" with varying amounts of english, etc.. (Ahem Ahem...)
A well hit ball on a Diamond goes in. A badly hit ball will not. I've watched hundreds of hours of tournaments from the 80's/early 90's, and it was not an uncommon thing at all to see a ball hit the rail 2 feet up from the pocket and still go in.
Trust me... if you are getting constantly "corner hooked" by the pocket facing on a Diamond, then you need to be playing better players who don't keep jawing balls and leaving them deep in the pocket. Be grateful. If you were playing on a GC, the ball would fall and your opponent would be running out.
Complaining about deep shelves on Diamonds is something I've only seen weak players do. As has been stated before, a ball struck between the pocket points goes in. Badly hit balls jaw. It's as simple as that.
Too many people harkening back to a time when the tables forgave sloppy play.
Short Bus Russ
Totally agree! You essentially said what I didn't wanna type concerning "adjusting" your game. Green to you :smile:
SBR,
I think you are a little off here. I (we) are not "complaining" ,... we are saying its different.!
My match over the weekend had me with CB 2 diamonds off the head-rail looking at an OB on the long-rail for a 61/2 Diamond roll to the corner. Made the shot,... it was onna GC-1. I wouldn't have even considered that shot onna Diamond Pro-Am.
(sry for the multi-quote, I didn't wanna post twice.)
I was gonna say.............. My Brunswick has K-66 rails. When did Diamond tables get them ?
-
Your gonna wanta call the cops! Brunswick did not use k-66..
Rob.M
Don't know why not, you could line up a 4 ball combination shot with all the balls froze to the rail, shoot the first ball with the cue ball at near break speed...and the first ball would go right in the corner pocket with no problem. If you can't make that same shot with a ball down rail and make, the problem is not with the table/pocket....its you, the shooter!