Does gambling improve your game?

TheThaiger said:
I disagree.

The problem with pool (in the UK at least) is, there's too many moderate players with very low levels of intelligence, who think they're the best thing since sliced bread, with a unique talent. They lie, cheat and scam their way around a table, and this deters casual players from playing the game more seriously. They won't play unless there's an easy score on the cards, and give nothing back to the game whatsoever.

Pool is dying because of gambling and lowlifes. Pool needs to attract a more educated and refined crowd. It desperately needs to modernise.
Click to expand...

Disagree. Though the players you speak of do exist, and all over, not just the uk, this is not the reason pool is dying. Movies such as The Hustler and The Color of Money and the resulting booms have proved that. Also, where do you see people gathered around a table watching intently the most often? Money games. There are a lot of reasons pool is not doing well but gambling and lowlifes is not one of them and never has been. You might be surprised at how educated some pool players/fans are.
 
Island Drive said:
If your able to create a reason NOT to miss that's what's needed. Playing for table time is a great motivator, especially for beginning players who really don't want to gamble but it gives bragging rights which often is way better than money.
My dad and his roomate from Northwestern, played $1 per hole golf their entire life, and to them, it was the hunt that counted more than the catch.
And for those few of us on this AZ board who might remember this man....his name was Otto Graham (Cleveland Browns).
In his 9 year record, he completed 1375 passes in 2417 attempts for 21,874 yards and 162 touchdowns.
Click to expand...

This post and Neil's are right on. I've repeated the first sentence in this post time and again over the years. I've known very,very few people who could get motivated just over bragging rights.
 
one guy hit it on the nod, it doesn't improve your playing as much as it improves your ability to focus
 
billy bones said:
True enough practice can teach you the "how to" portion & you will attain a certain level of profiency, but the ability to truely execute is learned under pressure in real game situations where you can lose & where losing actually means something & conversely where you can win & winning is an objective you truely wish to achieve.
Click to expand...


I've said it in similar threads as this one and I'll say it again here. Like "how a cue hits", it's all subjective and relevant to an individual's desire to win. There are many different people in the world mentally/emotionally. Many with quite different objectives. Take a person such as myself. I play the game simply for the enjoyment factor. I'm not trying to become some "world beater" or supplement my income from another mans wallet. I have zero desire to do that. I simply want to shoot pool against somebody, ANYBODY, for a good time and socialization. I feel there are probably thousands upon thousands of other people worldwide that view pool in the same light as I do. So no, I do not think gambling is going to do one, single thing to elevate their game (people like myself). Might make their wallet lighter though ;).

FWIW, I did try gambling once to see if it would make me focus better. It did not. Lost a few $20 sets (I know, I know, $20 sets ain't "real gambling" to many) and my opponent offered to change the game (weight), but I said no to that because I wanted a true test of NEEDING to focus better. After losing a few more sets we called it a day. I can tell you with no uncertainty that my game was no different that day than if I'd of been shooting around the home table with 'ol Joe Blow for funsies. I simply do not have a big enough desire to win to make a difference. Don't get me wrong, winning is fun and I like to win, just not what motivates me to play.

I achieve everything I want from pool anytime I'm playing a game with someone from nothing more than the fun of the game itself.

Maniac
 
Last edited:
Maniac said:
I've said it in similar threads as this one and I'll say it again here. Like "how a cue hits", it's all subjective and relevant to an individual's desire to win. There are many different people in the world mentally/emotionally. Many with quite different objectives. Take a person such as myself. I play the game simply for the enjoyment factor. I'm not trying to become some "world beater" or supplement my income from another mans wallet. I have zero desire to do that. I simply want to shoot pool against somebody, ANYBODY, for a good time and socialization. I feel there are probably thousands upon thousands of other people worldwide that view pool in the same light as I do. So no, I do not think gambling is going to do one, single thing to elevate their game (people like myself). Might make their wallet lighter though ;).

FWIW, I did try gambling once to see if it would make me focus better. It did not. Lost a few $20 sets (I know, I know, $20 sets ain't "real gambling" to many) and my opponent offered to change the game (weight), but I said no to that because I wanted a true test of NEEDING to focus better. After losing a few more sets we called it a day. I can tell you with no uncertainty that my game was no different that day than if I'd of been shooting around the home table with 'ol Joe Blow for funsies. I simply do not have a big enough desire to win to make a difference. Don't get me wrong, winning is fun and I like to win, just not what motivates me to play.

I achieve everything I want from pool anytime I'm playing a game with someone from nothing more than the fun of the game itself.

Maniac
Click to expand...

Maniac,
There are hundreds of thousands of players just like you whose game will not improve from gambling. Nothing wrong with playing the game just for "funsies".
 
paksat said:
one guy hit it on the nod, it doesn't improve your playing as much as it improves your ability to focus
Click to expand...

Doesn't this mean the game is improved? If playing Beethoven increases a surgeons ability to focus, he will play it during surgery, and he will be a better surgeon for it.
 
It took me a long time to figure this out.

People who say that they need to play for something in order to try harder or to stay focused don't really love playing pool. They're looking for a way to help them enjoy the game.

I don't mean that anyone who gambles doesn't love the game. That's not true.

People who truly love to play are the ones who are really good at it. Gambling will not make you love to play pool. Therefore, gambling will not make you play better.

Ever watch great players? They can't be near a pool table without picking up a cue and hitting balls. That's someone who loves to play. They don't even need gambling to do that.
 
paksat said:
one guy hit it on the nod, it doesn't improve your playing as much as it improves your ability to focus
Click to expand...

Dammit. I can't believe I am BTT.:embarrassed2:

I would say it does improve playing by most measures. In fact, the only one I believe it doesn't is in knowledge.

And I would add that it can teach one to make the best choice for a given postiion/ scenario.
 
gambling probably hurt my game

I was competitive from the time I could walk, maybe before. Came from having an older brother and still older sister, both bigger, stronger, and faster than I was for most of my childhood. I can't remember an age early enough I wasn't trying to outperform them at something.

When I started pool the goal was to win. Money was the way to keep score so I gambled. Unfortunately a year or two into playing pool the score became the all important thing, money. From that point on while my pool skills improved my gambling skills improved far more and were indeed my focus. While I played a solid game of pool I spent the vast majority of my time concealing that little detail. Only many many years later do I wonder how good I might have been had I let the ponies run when I was in my natural prime with a young body and young eyes.

Hu
 
Maniac said:
I've said it in similar threads as this one and I'll say it again here. Like "how a cue hits", it's all subjective and relevant to an individual's desire to win. There are many different people in the world mentally/emotionally. Many with quite different objectives. Take a person such as myself. I play the game simply for the enjoyment factor. I'm not trying to become some "world beater" or supplement my income from another mans wallet. I have zero desire to do that. I simply want to shoot pool against somebody, ANYBODY, for a good time and socialization. I feel there are probably thousands upon thousands of other people worldwide that view pool in the same light as I do. So no, I do not think gambling is going to do one, single thing to elevate their game (people like myself). Might make their wallet lighter though ;).

FWIW, I did try gambling once to see if it would make me focus better. It did not. Lost a few $20 sets (I know, I know, $20 sets ain't "real gambling" to many) and my opponent offered to change the game (weight), but I said no to that because I wanted a true test of NEEDING to focus better. After losing a few more sets we called it a day. I can tell you with no uncertainty that my game was no different that day than if I'd of been shooting around the home table with 'ol Joe Blow for funsies. I simply do not have a big enough desire to win to make a difference. Don't get me wrong, winning is fun and I like to win, just not what motivates me to play.

I achieve everything I want from pool anytime I'm playing a game with someone from nothing more than the fun of the game itself.

Maniac
Click to expand...

No offense, but if you thought that playing for money ONCE would make a difference, it wouldn't. Everyone loses in the beginning, it's learning how to NOT lose that comes over time. And, as was said above, it provides a reason not to miss. I respect your love of the game, believe me, we just view things a bit different.
 
FranCrimi said:
Ever watch great players? They can't be near a pool table without picking up a cue and hitting balls. That's someone who loves to play.
Click to expand...

Fran,

That statement is also true of players that are not great. I cannot be in the presence of a pool table and not have the desire to find a cue and hit some balls either, and I am far, FAR from being a great player. It doesn't take any amount of talent to have desires!!!

Maniac
 
Pushout said:
No offense, but if you thought that playing for money ONCE would make a difference, it wouldn't.
Click to expand...

But....if it had made a difference the first time, I probably would still be doing it. I could clearly see after the one time that it was never going to change anything in my game. We obviously have different pool "metabolisms" and you cannot fully understand mine and I cannot fully understand yours. People are different in their own ways (thank God). It's what makes the world a very interesting place.

Shoot well, my friend!!!

Maniac
 
Gambling will you a better player. Some people are great "practicers" but can't make a ball under pressure. Tough matches make tough players.
 
This is a quote from a well respected pool player here in Oklahoma. "I'll beat anyone at pool that has to work for a living"

Jeff Melton

I guess there is added pressure to a person that gambles and works for a living just because if they lose all there money they are broke til their next payday. So with that in mind, how do you overcome that much added pressure? Cause if they are playing on there rent money or grocery money, odds are they are gonna lose
 
I think some people believe they need to gamble to play good, that's their choice. I think the mistake some people make is believing because a person chooses not to gamble that they can't gamble and play good.

Later
 
It's really simple. If you want to improve, you need to be punished for losing and rewarded for winning. I'm not saying gambling necessarily does this for you. You can play in leagues or tournaments and get results. You can have a rivalry with your best friend that pushes you. The bottom line is, the loss needs to sting.

The great advantage to gambling is that it makes you focus. Nobody f*cks around when there's money on the line. You miss, it stings and you remember it. When you go into your wallet to pay the guy off, every mistake you made is freshly carved into your memory and you take it with you to the practice table. When you play well and win, it can put you firmly on a winning track that can last for weeks or months. Too often, I see friends playing hee-haw over beers and they wonder why they never get any better. They've simply provided themselves too many excuses for making mistakes.

Honestly, I don't have a reputation for gambling. When I have the time, the opportunity, and the amount is reasonable, I do. I think anyone who has devoted themselves to improving their pool game should, at the very least, occasionally gamble. Dismissing it entirely is silly since you can always control how much you bet. If you have a gambling problem, then perhaps you should ignore my advice but assuming you don't, you should give it a try. Set a denomination and a structure that allows for multiple sets over a long duration. Personally, anything less than 4 sets is a short session in my book.
 
Sw10balltour said:
This is a quote from a well respected pool player here in Oklahoma. "I'll beat anyone at pool that has to work for a living"

Jeff Melton

I guess there is added pressure to a person that gambles and works for a living just because if they lose all there money they are broke til their next payday. So with that in mind, how do you overcome that much added pressure? Cause if they are playing on there rent money or grocery money, odds are they are gonna lose
Click to expand...

Having known Jeff, roomed and spent time with his father and brothers, I think this is more the humor/southern/country side of Jeff. He's a stand up guy who I respect like family.
Verbatum is not his intention, just his way of stirring up another game in a friendly sort of way. Kinda like Ronnie Allen.
 
Maniac said:
But....if it had made a difference the first time, I probably would still be doing it. I could clearly see after the one time that it was never going to change anything in my game. We obviously have different pool "metabolisms" and you cannot fully understand mine and I cannot fully understand yours. People are different in their own ways (thank God). It's what makes the world a very interesting place.

Shoot well, my friend!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

Of course it is your choice, but as objectively as possible, I agree with him.

You can't gamble once and know that it wont improve your game. I think almost the entire benefit of gambling has to do with fire in one's belly, and newly found willingness and motivation to correct those mistakes based on the mental anguish of the loss. So, in your case, the real improvement perhaps would have come in the time between the first and second matches, where you were now more motivated than ever to improve during practice. I personally think that is where the most profound learning takes place. But yes, you can't just lay money on the table and be better, I don't think anybody is saying that.

In this thread I think it is assumed, or should be, that "gambling" means a practice or philosophy, as in done multiple times. Of course you can refrain from it, but citing your own single experience doesn't lend much credence as to evidence against its benefits. But i'd be willing to bet almost anything, if you were somehow compelled to bet 100 a set with a player near your caliber everyday for a month, at the end of that month you'd be a much better player than if you would have instead only practiced that same amount of time everyday... you just don't realize that :) But of course your right to refrain from it is respected :)
 
Last edited:
About the only improvement I get out of gambling is that my already thin wallet tends to get even thinner.:lol:
 
I REALLY REALLY want to believe that gambling doesn't help one's game and I've tried to say so in the past.

For me, I really dislike the gambling process for lack of better term. What typically happens for me is I will match up with someone around my speed that is barely working and playing pool all the time. They will do whatever it takes to try to get a hundred bucks off me. I'll play and lose 4 or 5 sets. I'm always willing to lose at least 100 bucks to someone. However, this is NEVER reciprocated. Usually when I win after a set I have to listen to the guy complain about how we have to adjust. I need to give up the 8 or 7 or bla, bla, bla.

Bottom line for me is I don't enjoy giving guys that don't work for a living money that I earn at work and at the same time I don't really get any thrill out of taking someone else's money. It is sort of a lose-lose for me.

Now having said all that I do believe it is fierce competition that brings out the best in us and in pool there seems to be unseen hurdles that you have to get over for your game to improve. One of these hurdles is the ability to REALLY focus in. This only comes through this fierce competition. Unfortunately, in our game this sort of competition is easiest to find while gambling.


***For the record I have sort of changed my view on this. Maybe I've accepted reality.***
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top