Does inside spin create more CIT than outside spin?

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bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I seem to miss more shots using inside spin than using outside spin. Part of it might be that my inside spin shots tend to be power shots (e.g. forcefollow out of a corner) and more power usually means less accuracy (for me, at least).

But I wonder if I'm getting more CIT (and not adjusting enough for it) with inside spin shots.

(This is not about aiming systems, Touch of Inside, etc. I'm talking about 1-1/2 tips of english to get fairly extreme reaction off the rail.)

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Just keep in mind that you get some collision induced throw with a cut shot to begin with. Outside spin will offset it, inside spin adds to it.
 
I'm not saying this is the reason for your problem, but it is for mine. When I use inside english I use parallel english. When I use outside english I tend to use backhand english.
It took some video taping to find my problem, but as soon as I saw it I said....AH HA, there it is! I haven't changed how I address the CB, but it's good to know.
 
tim913 said:
I'm not saying this is the reason for your problem, but it is for mine. When I use inside english I use parallel english. When I use outside english I tend to use backhand english.
It took some video taping to find my problem, but as soon as I saw it I said....AH HA, there it is! I haven't changed how I address the CB, but it's good to know.
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Slasher said:
Try putting the English on before you get down on the shot.
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I've always used parallel english for inside and outside, so my aim and tip placement are always part of a single motion (I tried learning BHE but the results were so bad it was laughable).

I guess I'll need to set up spot shot drills and learn it the hard way...drill, practice, drill and then practice some more. Rats!
 
Alignment is key otherwise it is very easy to come across the line and not get the cue through straight, work on center ball to get the cue going through straight, once you have that working good then stand up and just move the whole thing over and then get down. One more thing your cue will follow your eyes so you may want to look at this aspect (no pun intended)
 
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bdorman said:
Does inside spin create more CIT than outside spin?
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It depends on the cut angle and the amount of spin. For more info, and demonstrations, see:

inside english resource page

With the right amount of outside english (i.e., the "gearing" amount), there is actually no CIT whatsoever. Comparing to this, inside always creates more CIT. For more info, and demonstrations, see:

outside english resource page

Enjoy,
Dave
 
bdorman said:
I seem to miss more shots using inside spin than using outside spin. Part of it might be that my inside spin shots tend to be power shots (e.g. forcefollow out of a corner) and more power usually means less accuracy (for me, at least).

But I wonder if I'm getting more CIT (and not adjusting enough for it) with inside spin shots.

(This is not about aiming systems, Touch of Inside, etc. I'm talking about 1-1/2 tips of english to get fairly extreme reaction off the rail.)

Thanks for your thoughts.
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You didn't say whether you miss the shots too full or too thin.
 
Bob Jewett said:
You didn't say whether you miss the shots too full or too thin.
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I'm guessing too thin. Sounds like OP sets up with inside parallel enlish, as I do. Mostly, I over cut, especially if hitting hard.

Someone suggested to me, to aim fuller by the amount of offset from center, while stroking straight through the cb. that way, I miss closer.
 
bdorman said:
I'll admit to not having paid real close attention, but I suspect I'm overcutting.
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If you're overcutting with inside, throw is working in your favor. It sounds like you are under-compensating for squirt. The reason you notice more on high speed shots is because there is less swerve counteracting the squirt, so you have to adjust your aim more.
 
Matt said:
If you're overcutting with inside, throw is working in your favor. It sounds like you are under-compensating for squirt. The reason you notice more on high speed shots is because there is less swerve counteracting the squirt, so you have to adjust your aim more.
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Good analysis. People who have trouble compensating for squirt can usually benefit from using back-hand english (BHE), especially with high-speed and/or short distance shots. For more info and demonstrations, see:

backhand english (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE) resource page

Regards,
Dave
 
Bob Jewett said:
You didn't say whether you miss the shots too full or too thin.
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I was just going to ask you if you were missing under cutting or over cutting the shot.

You mentioned power shots. If you tend to miss by over cutting ... you may need one of those special cue shafts. :thumbup:
 
First, it could be one of many reasons you are missing and it may not be the same thing every time.

This does point to the need to always have a specific spot you are putting the OB in the pocket and not just that it goes in the pocket.

You need to see the difference of where it goes v where you wanted it to go.
 
bdorman said:
I'll admit to not having paid real close attention, but I suspect I'm overcutting.
Click to expand...

This is normal specifically since myou're wondering about CIT. Stop thinking about CIT and look at squirt and you'll see that you've been compensating the opposite direction . It's hard to believe until the light bulb turns on.

Freddie <~~~ bulb is burned out
 
Cornerman said:
This is normal specifically since myou're wondering about CIT. Stop thinking about CIT and look at squirt and you'll see that you've been compensating the opposite direction . It's hard to believe until the light bulb turns on.

Freddie <~~~ bulb is burned out
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If people want help with turning the "light bulb" on, the following videos might be of some assistance:

NV B.70 - Squirt (cue ball deflection), swerve, and throw, from VEPS II
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV

Enjoy,
Dave
 
bdorman said:
I seem to miss more shots using inside spin than using outside spin. Part of it might be that my inside spin shots tend to be power shots (e.g. forcefollow out of a corner) and more power usually means less accuracy (for me, at least).

But I wonder if I'm getting more CIT (and not adjusting enough for it) with inside spin shots.

(This is not about aiming systems, Touch of Inside, etc. I'm talking about 1-1/2 tips of english to get fairly extreme reaction off the rail.)

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...

You're not alone, especially on 30 degree cut type of shots. Billy Incardone commented during a match "uh oh, he's using inside English. I wish I had a nickel for every one of those I missed!".

I think it's because players don't practice it enough. I shoot maybe 5 times the number of outside shots as inside shots.

I believe this is where a low squirt shaft helps the most. What helps me is to visualize the shot coming off with with inside before getting down on the shot. Also, practicing inside English spot shots (with follow) is a challenging but rewarding practice drill.
 
Slasher said:
Are we assuming the OP has a perfect cue action?
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I doubt I have "perfect cue action" but, if it's any indication, the CB does what I intended (takes the follow/stun/draw path and reacts off the rail as inside english would dictate).

Thanks for all the ideas. Looks like it's time to practice.
 
bdorman said:
I'll admit to not having paid real close attention [to which side the ball misses on], but I suspect I'm overcutting.
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If you don't know which side you miss a shot on, it is hard to adjust the aim for the next time you encounter the shot. If you do not pay attention to exactly how a shot goes wrong, it is a very slow process to correct the error.
 
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