Don Sherman / sureman183

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8-ballRat's Post

The post by 8-ballRat added a bit of levity to a very sad situation........Sureman will inevitably have both supporters and critics over what's occurred but let's keep in mind there are lots of others on the Forum that are neither.........these are the people that are watching this situation to see what comes of it..........and based upon how things ultimately turn out, these same folks will invariably become one or the other.

Right now it sounds like there are a lot more critics of "Sureman" than there are supporters and it's completely understandable. It's tempting to take the side of someone you personally know or have had prior successful business dealings with. You start thinking...."This can't be the Don I know......he'd never do that to someone."

Taking sides is easy........after all, how much does it cost anyone to take a side in this dispute. There's going to be a plethora of opinions, advice, criticism, and support but let's keep in mind that there seems to be a real injustice afoot here on the Forum. Remember, this could be any one of us the next time and as a community, if there is such a thing nowadays, it's incumbent upon Forum members to collectively try their best to identify dishonest individuals.

Again, I don't know that "Sureman" is entirely at fault in this matter or is indeed a dishonest pereson. What I do know is that based upon what I've read to date, he doesn't seem to care much about trying to do the right thing and is obviously indifferent to what other Forum members are saying about this matter. That tells me he doesn't want to face the music even though it's blasting very loudly in his tone-deaf ears.

The only real measure of a man is done through his actions not his statements....and in this pathetic situation, we don't even have either one from "Sureman".....just hearsay & 3rd hand comments passed along by some of his supporters. Only time will tell what becomes of this but we should not let this thread die........keep it going Forum members.......Everyone should boycott Sureman on any future business untils he directly answers the injured party and resolves this problem.

If he's a stand-up, trustworthy, honest seller........keep in mind that I said "if"........and he's interested in restoring what's become his soiled reputation on the Forum, he'll get off his fat tush, and find the courage to respond....hopefully truthfully but any response would be better than none. I betcha his wife would have a mouthful to say about this matter but her thoughts are truly inconsequential unless......... maybe she wears the pants in his marriage. If that's the case, then he has to get the okay from "Mrs. Sureman" who is credited with pretty much saying "Go buck a fuffalo."

Let's Keep This Thread On The Front Page Until "Sureman" Resolves This Problem.....or is exonerated........but remember, you, or some other naieve Forum member, could conceivably become the next victim down the road.
 
For sure some mistakes were made here. The original trade/sale happened at a cue show that was also attended by Barry and Jimmy Szam. I can't imagine that Don would have intentionally misrepresented the cue refinish with Barry standing right there (to be honest I feel I know Don well enough to figure he wouldn't intentionally misrepresent the cue with Barry there or not). Seems to me like a mistake that could be fixed was made here.

We all expect people to think like we do, but I would never buy a Gus or a George without talking to Tasc or Barry first and how this 8K deal went down with the unbelievable good fortune of being in the same room with Barry without Barry seeing the cue is completely beyond me. Barry has always seemed to me to be super helpful and eager to see and talk about his dad's stuff. So on this point I'm mystified. To be honest, to me this seems like Chris's mistake, but the penalty for making the mistake of trusting Don's word and not walking the cue over to the Szams should not be talking a 8K cue deal up the butt.

From the original refinish mistake, which can happen, things went way downhill. The solution really seems to be that the seller make the cue be what he represented it as or the deal be unwound. The 2nd trade just compounded an already messy situation.

What we really need is Don's side of this story.

Kevin

I am actually heading out right now and I do not have the time to answer this fully.

Barry did the see the cue. The is a pic in this thread as such. I NEVER blamed Don for the issue with the Gus. Never. I told him I was uncomfortable with the cue AFTER I discovered the cue was not refinished by Barry. Barry did look at the cue but it was not very well lit. The only tell tale sign was in my pics where the finish was "chipped" on the delrin. Pic is also in this thread.

Barry confirmed that he did not do the refinish on the Gus after it was explained what I saw on the Delrin. It was missed at the show.

My issue with Don was the misrepresentation with the Barry Szamboti cue with the warped shaft and "forgetting" to include my cash.

I asked Don to have the Gus back AFTER Barry committed to refinish the Gus. The Gus was already back with Don when he backed out of sending the Gus back to me.
 
I am actually heading out right now and I do not have the time to answer this fully.

Barry did the see the cue. The is a pic in this thread as such. I NEVER blamed Don for the issue with the Gus. Never. I told him I was uncomfortable with the cue AFTER I discovered the cue was not refinished by Barry. Barry did look at the cue but it was not very well lit. The only tell tale sign was in my pics where the finish was "chipped" on the delrin. Pic is also in this thread.

Barry confirmed that he did not do the refinish on the Gus after it was explained what I saw on the Delrin. It was missed at the show.

My issue with Don was the misrepresentation with the Barry Szamboti cue with the warped shaft and "forgetting" to include my cash.

I asked Don to have the Gus back AFTER Barry committed to refinish the Gus. The Gus was already back with Don when he backed out of sending the Gus back to me.

Chris

You answered it fine, thanks. I saw the picture with Barry and Jimbo but didn't know it was this Gus in their hands. This is way unfortunate.

Kevin
 
The post by 8-ballRat added a bit of levity to a very sad situation........Sureman will inevitably have both supporters and critics over what's occurred but let's keep in mind there are lots of others on the Forum that are neither.........these are the people that are watching this situation to see what comes of it..........and based upon how things ultimately turn out, these same folks will invariably become one or the other.

Right now it sounds like there are a lot more critics of "Sureman" than there are supporters and it's completely understandable. It's tempting to take the side of someone you personally know or have had prior successful business dealings with. You start thinking...."This can't be the Don I know......he'd never do that to someone."

Taking sides is easy........after all, how much does it cost anyone to take a side in this dispute. There's going to be a plethora of opinions, advice, criticism, and support but let's keep in mind that there seems to be a real injustice afoot here on the Forum. Remember, this could be any one of us the next time and as a community, if there is such a thing nowadays, it's incumbent upon Forum members to collectively try their best to identify dishonest individuals.

Again, I don't know that "Sureman" is entirely at fault in this matter or is indeed a dishonest pereson. What I do know is that based upon what I've read to date, he doesn't seem to care much about trying to do the right thing and is obviously indifferent to what other Forum members are saying about this matter. That tells me he doesn't want to face the music even though it's blasting very loudly in his tone-deaf ears.

The only real measure of a man is done through his actions not his statements....and in this pathetic situation, we don't even have either one from "Sureman".....just hearsay & 3rd hand comments passed along by some of his supporters. Only time will tell what becomes of this but we should not let this thread die........keep it going Forum members.......Everyone should boycott Sureman on any future business untils he directly answers the injured party and resolves this problem.

If he's a stand-up, trustworthy, honest seller........keep in mind that I said "if"........and he's interested in restoring what's become his soiled reputation on the Forum, he'll get off his fat tush, and find the courage to respond....hopefully truthfully but any response would be better than none. I betcha his wife would have a mouthful to say about this matter but her thoughts are truly inconsequential unless......... maybe she wears the pants in his marriage. If that's the case, then he has to get the okay from "Mrs. Sureman" who is credited with pretty much saying "Go buck a fuffalo."

Let's Keep This Thread On The Front Page Until "Sureman" Resolves This Problem.....or is exonerated........but remember, you, or some other naieve Forum member, could conceivably become the next victim down the road.

Excellent post. I hope this matter gets resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Keeping it upfront.
 
Don probably sold you the Gus for at least 2K less than it was worth.

Refinishing the Cue by Barry was not a necessity. And would have made the Cue around a 12K Cue.

You are having a sellers remorseful for jumping off a winning proposition that Don origionally put in.

Nick,

It is one thing to try to defend Don. As we all know, Don did not choose to do so, no matter how many requests were made.

But it is a bit over the top to suggest that Don gave Chris a bargain price and that Chris is some neophyte collector who felt remorse after he started to play with the big boys.

I have a no-inlay Gus ('86-'88) that was refinished by someone other than Barry (Barry said it was a nice job and did not need to be redone) with 2 Gus shafts and 2 perfect shafts from Barry. If anybody wants the package for $10.5K, please PM me.

Greg
 
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You buy a Cue and love it.
Your friend sees the cue and all of a sudden you are looking at scared money.
You arrange a trade.
After the cues arrive you are satisfied. A few days later you want the origional cue you sent back?
Don't feel alone. If you buy what you want money is not the object. Don probably sold you the Gus for at least 2K less than it was worth.
He is known to do things like that.
Refinishing the Cue by Barry was not a necessity. And would have made the Cue around a 12K Cue.
Were you happy with the trade until this thought entered your mind.
I am sure Mr Don went way out of his way to try to satisfy you. That is how he stays in business. Return costumers everywhere.
You are having a sellers remorseful for jumping off a winning proposition that Don origionally put in.
He is only human and not a mind reader. If he was he would have never sold you a Cue that was worth way more than he let you get it for because he only wanted to see you over and over again.
Good luck with all this. And rember Experts are a dime a dozen Honest Cue Dealers are so very few and Don is one of them.
Nick :)

nickie,

GR8 job of gettin this bumped for your bud (i also like Don) 8 to 10 times...sure he appreciates it:smile:

tavarish, Adashka
 
Can you say hijack?

Not my cue & don't know the owner of the cue. Just want people to know there is more than one place to buy a Gus cue. I always thought this one very nice. Fourkingcues (Little Kenny) would be my #1 option though. He is first class.

Very sorry for the situation CMD is in. I would not be pleased either. Good luck with getting it resolved.
 
i just left tunica and will be going back thursday and probly stay till next sat.

i browsed through the vendor section and found a few cues i would like to add to my collection. i even thought about trading up on a couple of cues.

before i go any further let me say this. i dont have a problem with a dealer making money. i expect them to make money, that is what they are in bussiness for. i do have a problem being lowballed on what my cue is worth.i just dont understand how my cue is only worth 1,200 but the an identical cue they have is worth 2,300. i was not after the identical cue i was after a 3,900 cue.

although i paid 2,000 for mine i would have taken 1,800 for mine as a trade for the 3,900 cue which is 500 less than his price for the cue identical to mine. needless to say when he offered 1,200 for mine i put it back in the case and walked away without saying a word.

to keep this topic related, i think cmd got shafted.
 
i dont have a problem with a dealer making money. i expect them to make money, that is what they are in bussiness for. i do have a problem being lowballed on what my cue is worth.i just dont understand how my cue is only worth 1,200 but the an identical cue they have is worth 2,300. i was not after the identical cue i was after a 3,900 cue.

The more time i spend around AZ, the more im starting to believe that cue dealers are the same as used car dealers and will say and do anything to peddle their wares.
 
Just to get this back on topic,

It's nice to see these two good guys step up.
They see there's a problem and try to offer help.

First you have Tinh339. this is how he tries to help:

I just hate to see good guy getting burned. Don, If you read this..I like you to know that if i can help in any way to resolve this issue that you have with Chris. I willing to give up the Showman if that can help you guys out....Let me know.
Regards
Peter

NICE GOING Tinh339
----------
Next you have duker, this is how he tries to help:

If you over extended yourself and went short of cash, return my Southwest Cues and shafts, and the Schon in the same condition and I'll return your money if you need it to get out of this jam. I hate to see things like this go down. Maybe this will help get you out of this jam...maybe it won't, but the offer is there...

NICE GOING Duker

Really nice gestures from both of you guys, always good to see good people trying to help!
---------
Then you have Don Sherman / sureman183
This is what he does to help: NOTHING

First he screws Chris, then he won't return his calls, then he screws him
again, still not responding to attempts at communication, then, and get
this he says he's done. WTF

WAY TO GO Don

Not only did you screw Chris, but you screwed yourself how many people
here on AZ will deal with you after this they would have to be crazy.

You know right from wrong and you know you're wrong in this matter.

CLOSE TO 12,000 VIEWS ON THIS THREAD ALREADY I'D BE TRIPPING
OVER MYSELF TO MAKE THIS RIGHT IF I SOLD CUES, JUST SAYING

There it's back on topic and back on top of page one!
 
Everybody screws up, even me:grin:
the folks you want to deal with, recognize it, admit it,and deal with it in an honest manner . . .

Nuff said about don.
 
Everybody screws up, even me:grin:
the folks you want to deal with, recognize it, admit it,and deal with it in an honest manner . . .


So it's OK that Don screws Chris on the cue deal, then won't even communicate with him and says he's done. RIGHT!!! LOL
 
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Everybody screws up, even me:grin:
the folks you want to deal with, recognize it, admit it,and deal with it in an honest manner . . .


So it's OK that Don screws Chris on the cue deal, then won't even communicate with him and says he's done. RIGHT!!! LOL

My point was, for the more obtuse here:grin:, that don did none of those things so that was enough said about him.
didn't mean to make it hard to understand,:rolleyes:
 
He's still doing those things, for the blind or people to lazy to read this thread, would the lazy be you?

OK so let me make this perfectly clear so there is no more misunderstanding,
1.
don hasn't recognized it,
2.
don hasn't admitted it
3.
don hasn't dealt with it in an honest manner
4.
THAT IS ENOUGH SAID ABOUT HIM!!!

I greened you up for sticking up for Chris, which is what I WAS TRYING TO DO:grin:

(and I've read the whole thing too:thumbup: and please note the lower case d on don)
 
Don was in my shop this week. I got just a few of the details from the 'other side'.
I'm not writing this to pick sides or even to offer my opinion on the matter.
The fact is, I wasn't personally involved in any of this.
Neither were any of you with the exception of the OP.
Judgement seems to have come easily for some of you.
I don't think that jury-duty would be your strong suit.

Don is a good man and he has a good heart.
Many of you may have done business with him and been pleased in doing so.
This thread has come to the point where it's no longer just about Don & the OP.
It's now about the AZ community as a whole and how it treats an issue with limited
information and the disregard of the consequences that careless accusations can bring.
Lynch-mob mentality is not justice.

KJ
 
Don was in my shop this week. I got just a few of the details from the 'other side'.
I'm not writing this to pick sides or even to offer my opinion on the matter.
The fact is, I wasn't personally involved in any of this.
Neither were any of you with the exception of the OP.
Judgement seems to have come easily for some of you.
I don't think that jury-duty would be your strong suit.

Don is a good man and he has a good heart.
Many of you may have done business with him and been pleased in doing so.
This thread has come to the point where it's no longer just about Don & the OP.
It's now about the AZ community as a whole and how it treats an issue with limited
information and the disregard of the consequences that careless accusations can bring.
Lynch-mob mentality is not justice.

KJ

Having been a jury foreman on a murder trial, I can only say that we decided the case on the evidence presented, as I have done in my considerations on this thread.

and we acquitted.

Perhaps if there was evidence presented from the other side we would reconsider our position. Until that time, my "verdict" will remain the same.
 
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