Don Sherman / sureman183

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I'm not looking to start a $hitstorm. I just want closure on our agreement. If is was a small cue it wouldn't be so bad. The original cue was a Gus Szamboti. It's a lot of money for a pool cue. For me anyway.

Oh I think I understand entirely. You want what you thought you were getting when you made the deal. Seems fair to me regardless of the amount.
And really (for me anyway) regardless of right or wrong. Again, a deal isn't done until both parties are satisfied, and clearly in this case, you are not. If Don says your deal is done leaving you unsatisfied, then he is wrong and needs to get busy making you happy or unwinding your deal.

Like I said, my dealings with Don have been quite the opposite, and I consider him an extremely honorable man, so I'd like to think this is just a misunderstanding that could get cleared up with a little communication (and it really seems that you are trying your best to communicate).

Kevin
 
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Good question Kevin.


The last conversation I had with Don was on 7/4/2012. His wife got on the phone and said the deal was done and to not call Don again.

I have sent several emails , two messages on his page and 3 pm's. He has read 2 of them.




As soon as I get out of work, I will try calling again.


Either way, I have all of the email communication as proof of our agreement.

You're a better man than I.
I would have flipped after the section in red above.

Hope you get this resolved.
-B
 
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Oh I think I understand entirely. You want what you thought you were getting when you made the deal. Seems fair to me regardless of the amount.
And really (for me anyway) regardless of right or wrong. Again, a deal isn't done until both parties are satisfied, and clearly in this case, you are not. If Don says your deal is done leaving you unsatisfied, then he is wrong and needs to get busy making you happy or unwinding your deal.

Like I said, my dealings with Don have been quite the opposite, and I consider him an extremely honorable man, so I'd like to think this is just a misunderstanding that could get cleared up with a little communication (and it really seems that you are trying your best to communicate).

Kevin

Kevin,


I've been trying to clear this up since it all started. I've tried to accommodate Don and his time. I was willing to compensate him for his time and all shipping costs.

Don and I struck a deal on a Gus Szamboti cue at Little Kenny's show. I was told the cue was refinished by Barry Szamboti. I traded my John Showman cue plus $800 in cash. He ended up selling the Showman to tinh339 about 30-60 minutes later.

I received a PM from a member who has dealt with Don that the Gus was NOT refinished by Barry after reading my thread. I started to inspect the cue but could not find anything telling until I zoomed in on this picture.


DSC01199.jpg



This image clearly shows that finish was sprayed covering the entire Delrin butt cap. I asked Jimbo (who is a close friend to Barry) to ask if Barry ever refinished cues spraying over the Delrin. His answer was no. This made me feel very uncomfortable because I made the deal based solely on the refinish by Barry. This greatly diminishes the value of the cue. I brought this up to Don and he said it was probably overspray. As you can see this is clearly not just overspray. You can see the reflection of my windows from the ebony onto the Delrin. Delrin does not reflect. You can also see two "chips" in the finish on the Delrin.

I did not feel comfortable with the Gus, so Don and I agreed that I would send the Gus back to him with a dollar value of $8,500. This was because we could not undo the trade plus cash. And that he did not have the cash to send me.




There is more to the story but I will hold off for now.
 
Kevin,


I've been trying to clear this up since it all started. I've tried to accommodate Don and his time. I was willing to compensate him for his time and all shipping costs.

Don and I struck a deal on a Gus Szamboti cue at Little Kenny's show. I was told the cue was refinished by Barry Szamboti. I traded my John Showman cue plus $800 in cash. He ended up selling the Showman to tinh339 about 30-60 minutes later.

I received a PM from a member who has dealt with Don that the Gus was NOT refinished by Barry after reading my thread. I started to inspect the cue but could not find anything telling until I zoomed in on this picture.


This image clearly shows that finish was sprayed covering the entire Delrin butt cap. I asked Jimbo (who is a close friend to Barry) to ask if Barry ever refinished cues spraying over the Delrin. His answer was no. This made me feel very uncomfortable because I made the deal based solely on the refinish by Barry. This greatly diminishes the value of the cue. I brought this up to Don and he said it was probably overspray. As you can see this is clearly not just overspray. You can see the reflection of my windows from the ebony onto the Delrin. Delrin does not reflect. You can also see two "chips" in the finish on the Delrin.

I did not feel comfortable with the Gus, so Don and I agreed that I would send the Gus back to him with a dollar value of $8,500. This was because we could not undo the trade plus cash. And that he did not have the cash to send me.




There is more to the story but I will hold off for now.

No problem getting me to agree that the difference between a Gus refinished by "someone" and a Gus refinished by Barry is huge and, in my opinion, a deal breaker. I assume it was an innocent mistake on Don's part, and one he should be responsible for.

May I suggest that you speak with Barry regarding this cue. I've always found him to be very approachable and way willing to listen and talk about either his father's or his own cues, very. I would of course be looking to eliminate the "Jimbo sez Barry sez" aspect of your claim, and get the final word from the only one who can truly say. That would just serve to strengthen your position. And while you have him on the phone you might want to inquire about the cost and (*cringe*) time-frame of a total proper refinish from the Szams. I do think the non-Szam refinish is a completely just cause to demand a unwind of the deal, but a completely brand new Szam supplied refinish at Don's expense might be an alternative solution that if I was the buyer (and I know I'm not) I would find to be attractive.

One last question. Wasn't Barry and Jimmy at that show? (Maybe this aspect is the "more to the story" part).

Thanks

Kevin
 
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I did not feel comfortable with the Gus, so Don and I agreed that I would send the Gus back to him with a dollar value of $8,500. This was because we could not undo the trade plus cash. And that he did not have the cash to send me.

So if I understand it correctly, you sent the Cue to Don, He received the Cue, you no longer have the Cue, and are out 8.5K.

Is the above correct?
 
I would of course be looking to eliminate the "Jimbo sex Barry sez" aspect of your claim, and get the final word from the only one who can truly say. That would just serve to strengthen your position.

Yes......eliminating the Jimbo sex would strengthen your position.

:eek:

jk!

Hope you get it worked out Chris.

-Patrick
 
Yes......eliminating the Jimbo sex would strengthen your position.

:eek:

jk!

Hope you get it worked out Chris.

-Patrick

Patrick

Back from my edit with a "what you talking about ?" look on my face (you can see which gutter my mind resides in).

Thanks

Kevin
 
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No problem getting me to agree that the difference between a Gus refinished by "someone" and a Gus refinished by Barry is huge and, in my opinion, a deal breaker. I assume it was an innocent mistake on Don's part, and one he should be responsible for.

May I suggest that you speak with Barry regarding this cue. I've always found him to be very approachable and way willing to listen and talk about either his father's or his own cues, very. I would of course be looking to eliminate the "Jimbo sex Barry sez" aspect of your claim, and get the final word from the only one who can truly say. That would just serve to strengthen your position. And while you have him on the phone you might want to inquire about the cost and (*cringe*) time-frame of a total proper refinish from the Szams. I do think the non-Szam refinish is a completely just cause to demand a unwind of the deal, but a completely brand new Szam supplied refinish at Don's expense might be an alternative solution that if I was the buyer (and I know I'm not) I would find to be attractive.

One last question. Wasn't Barry and Jimmy at that show? (Maybe this aspect is the "more to the story" part).

Thanks

Kevin

All good questions Kevin.


However, Don refused to pay for the refinish from Barry (which I will not quote price or time here). So the agreement was for me to send the Gus back to Don and I chose other cues from his inventory. This was a big mistake on my part but I will live and learn. I picked a Barry Szamboti 4 point 4 veneer cue ($6,000) and a Bill Schick Hustler ($1,500). The balance was to be paid by bank check or money order. I agreed to "pay" Don $500 for his troubles and he only had to send $500 to me. This would have completed the deal.

Upon receipt of the cues, I did not find the bank check or money order in the package. There was one other issue. One of the Barry shafts was warped. I immediately sent Don an email. He claimed he thought I was going to send him $500. Then he said he would send the money as soon as possible because he had a few other deals pending and he was waiting for cash. I trusted him and said no problem. He also remembered the shaft was warped and said he would pay for a new shaft direct from Barry. Once again, I said no problem.

Here is where it gets sticky. I was told Barry would refinish the Gus (and I figured this was my best bet) and I would pay the refinish cost. I sent Don an email saying I was displeased with the Barry and how it was represented after I spoke to a previous owner of the cue. Regret took over and I sent Don an apology a few hours later via email. I decided to call Don (which was his preferred method) and ask if he would ship the Gus back (at my cost) and I would have the cue refinished (at my cost). He agreed.


I was a pretty happy guy at this point. Even though it was going to cost me the refinish, I would have a Gus Szamboti window that I had desired for many years.

Don emailed me the next morning saying the deal was off and I was not getting any cash back. I immediately called him in a panic.


He said I called him a liar and a cheat (which I never did) and that the deal was complete as he saw it. I tried to stay calm but emotion took and I used bad language during our conversation. I never called him a name, but I dropped several f-bombs and other cursory words. At this point I was out $1,000 and the cost of a Barry shaft ($375 shipped). I know I overpaid for the Barry and Schick but I could not take get beat out of the other money.

His wife got on the phone and started to tell me the deal was done. She said they do not speak that way in their house and I should be ashamed of myself. I apologized several times and tried to explain the deal was not done. She said one last time that the deal was done and to never call back. Then she hung up on me.



I called and left a voicemail tonight but have not received a call back as of yet.






Any suggestions what I do now?






Thanks,
Chris
 
So if I understand it correctly, you sent the Cue to Don, He received the Cue, you no longer have the Cue, and are out 8.5K.

Is the above correct?

lol, this makes as much sense as the rest of this fiasco

Hopefully the correct coarse will become obvious and it will be followed
 
Any suggestions what I do now?


Thanks,
Chris

Not my business, and I don't know either of the parties, but......
maybe a third person, mediator if you will, that both of you respect, could lead to a resolution.

Good luck.
 
All good questions Kevin.


However, Don refused to pay for the refinish from Barry (which I will not quote price or time here). So the agreement was for me to send the Gus back to Don and I chose other cues from his inventory. This was a big mistake on my part but I will live and learn. I picked a Barry Szamboti 4 point 4 veneer cue ($6,000) and a Bill Schick Hustler ($1,500). The balance was to be paid by bank check or money order. I agreed to "pay" Don $500 for his troubles and he only had to send $500 to me. This would have completed the deal.

Upon receipt of the cues, I did not find the bank check or money order in the package. There was one other issue. One of the Barry shafts was warped. I immediately sent Don an email. He claimed he thought I was going to send him $500. Then he said he would send the money as soon as possible because he had a few other deals pending and he was waiting for cash. I trusted him and said no problem. He also remembered the shaft was warped and said he would pay for a new shaft direct from Barry. Once again, I said no problem.

Here is where it gets sticky. I was told Barry would refinish the Gus (and I figured this was my best bet) and I would pay the refinish cost. I sent Don an email saying I was displeased with the Barry and how it was represented after I spoke to a previous owner of the cue. Regret took over and I sent Don an apology a few hours later via email. I decided to call Don (which was his preferred method) and ask if he would ship the Gus back (at my cost) and I would have the cue refinished (at my cost). He agreed.


I was a pretty happy guy at this point. Even though it was going to cost me the refinish, I would have a Gus Szamboti window that I had desired for many years.

Don emailed me the next morning saying the deal was off and I was not getting any cash back. I immediately called him in a panic.


He said I called him a liar and a cheat (which I never did) and that the deal was complete as he saw it. I tried to stay calm but emotion took and I used bad language during our conversation. I never called him a name, but I dropped several f-bombs and other cursory words. At this point I was out $1,000 and the cost of a Barry shaft ($375 shipped). I know I overpaid for the Barry and Schick but I could not take get beat out of the other money.

His wife got on the phone and started to tell me the deal was done. She said they do not speak that way in their house and I should be ashamed of myself. I apologized several times and tried to explain the deal was not done. She said one last time that the deal was done and to never call back. Then she hung up on me.



I called and left a voicemail tonight but have not received a call back as of yet.




Any suggestions what I do now?






Thanks,
Chris

Chris

I've only heard your side of the story and by that, you sound like you've been quite wronged and have been more than patient and way more resilient that I would.

The stuff about apologizing to a guy's wife about words you said to the guy because the phone was located in her house? Please. I know I couldn't even get that apology out of my mouth.

I don't have suggestions, but I do know what I think is fair (by your side of the story). You bought a Gus refinished by Barry, the Gus still exists, Barry still exists, the remedy is that the guy who represented the cue to you make the cue as represented (have Barry refinish it) or get your money and the Showman back to you. I don't see why you should have to pay for the refinish when the seller told you Barry did it in his description prior to the sale (part of the deal IMHO).

Sorry you are going through this. It really seems like you are getting dicked around quite a bit (again only hearing one side so far), and as you pointed out, this is big bucks. As I said, I know Don and feel like he's a stand-up guy, so I have to assume there's some emotion and hurt feelings involved.

Kevin
 
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This is a VERY unfortunate situation to say the least. I like both parties involved and hate to see this unfold.

With that said, if the buyer is not happy for any reason the seller has to make it right. That means refunding money if need be. I really hate it when I see this type situation... a buyer pays, the seller receives the money (and/or cue), the buyer is not satisfied and requests a refund, the seller no longer has the funds or original cue to reimburse the buyer to satisfy him. This has happened many times lately.

I really hope this comes to an end with both parties satisfied.
 
Chris

I've only heard your side of the story and by that, you sound like you've been quite wronged and have been more than patient and way more resilient that I would.

The stuff about apologizing to a guy's wife about words you said to the guy because the phone was located in her house? Please. I know I couldn't even get that apology out of my mouth.

I don't have suggestions, but I do know what I think is fair (by your side of the story). You bought a Gus refinished by Barry, the Gus still exists, Barry still exists, the remedy is that the guy who represented the cue to you make the cue as represented (have Barry refinish it) or get your money and the Showman back to you. I don't see why you should have to pay for the refinish when the seller told you Barry did it in his description prior to the sale (part of the deal IMHO).

Sorry you are going through this. It really seems like you are getting dicked around quite a bit (again only hearing one side so far), and as you pointed out, this is big bucks. As I said, I know Don and feel like he's a stand-up guy, so I have to assume there's some emotion and hurt feelings involved.

Kevin

Like I have said before, I am trying to work with Don on a solution. I was burned by Tank138 on my very first deal on AZ. That cost me $2,000+. I took that on the chin and thought I had learned my lesson. I have had many successful deals on here. I have built a reputation that I am proud of. I do what I say, and say what I will do. I invite anyone on AZ to dispute the fact that I have been dishonest in any dealings. Not sent a quick payment. Or strung anyone along with a cue I wished to buy. I have built strong relationships with many on here and other pool forums. Many people offer to send me cues based on my promise to pay alone.


I invite Don to dispute any of this. I have email, PM's and recorded conversations that back up everything I have written here. I was willing to lose money on this deal JUST to make this right. I do not deserve this treatment of silence. I have learned a long time ago to always tell the truth because you never have to back track.

I did not want to start this thread. All I wanted was what I paid for.




Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Like I have said before, I am trying to work with Don on a solution. I was burned by Tank138 on my very first deal on AZ. That cost me $2,000+. I took that on the chin and thought I had learned my lesson. I have had many successful deals on here. I have built a reputation that I am proud of. I do what I say, and say what I will do. I invite anyone on AZ to dispute the fact that I have been dishonest in any dealings. Not sent a quick payment. Or strung anyone along with a cue I wished to buy. I have built strong relationships with many on here and other pool forums. Many people offer to send me cues based on my promise to pay alone.


I invite Don to dispute any of this. I have email, PM's and recorded conversations that back up everything I have written here. I was willing to lose money on this deal JUST to make this right. I do not deserve this treatment of silence. I have learned a long time ago to always tell the truth because you never have to back track.

I did not want to start this thread. All I wanted was what I paid for.




Nothing more, nothing less.

Chris

Yeah, you should get what you paid for or get your Showman and money back. Offering you a Barry and a Schick and some cash and forgetting the cash and the fact that the Barry had a bad shaft seems VERY raw and if it were me, I'd be back to the original deal. I would have never accepted the substitute cues to begin with but the lack of disclosure about the Barry shaft and the lack of the promised cash seems a valid reason to unwind that deal and go back to the beginning.

By your account you have been more than fair and deserve far better than you have gotten.

Or we need to hear Don's side of the story.

Kevin
 
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It was hard enough to wrap my head around the disaster when I first heard of it.

It's even harder to fathom how this could happen...after reading it, step by step. Don's supposed to be one of the better dealers to work with around here. I just don't see how even half of this crap has gone on.

You got a raw deal...and have been screwed TWICE, so far.

First time around, you got a mis-represented Gus.

Second go of it - you got a WARPED shaft with your Barry, and were shorted cash.

Amazing...and tragic.

Good luck, brother. Hope you get everything you are rightfully owed.
 
Money involved

For the money involved in this cue deal, The Cue Dealer would have a new best freind at every tournament and cue show he attended until this was made right to my liking not his.
 
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Chris has done a great job providing his perspective. All of us, including Chris, would like to hear Don's interpretation of these events. Don's silence is deafening.

Sorry to hear that Chris has had to go through this experience for any cue. The emotional aspect of it being his first Gus and trading away one of the prettiest Showman cues I have seen adds insult to the injury.

Greg
 
Hope this all gets resolved.

Question on the refinish... Why would a refinisher paint over the Delrin? Nothing sticks to Delrin, and I was under the impression no cues since maybe the early custom days had finish on the Delrin. This of course is speculation on my part, but it leads me to believe that whoever refinished this cue was not very experienced, or somehow found a finish that sticks to Delrin.
 
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