Double-hit rule at Derby WTF

goettlicher said:
It's not the Rule!

It's the people trying to interpet the Rule as they please.

A Double Hit is a Double Hit!!!!!! 45 degrees or not.

So....we either allow crap to happen or we school our players better.

randyg
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But it was the rule, they even went over 3times in the DCC 9ball meeting
 
ideologist said:
Object balls frozen to the cue ball or very close to the cue ball require you to elevate the cue approximately 45 degrees to stroke the shot. This will be considered a legal shot even though a double hit may occur. Even with an elevated cue, you cannot place the cue tip on the cue ball and shove it forward or it will be called a push shot and result in a foul. An unintentional miscue is not a foul. An intentional miscue is a foul.
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This is okay. Problem solved. We need to have resolutions that are simple and that work.
 
garczar said:
We used to play where if the balls were less than a chalk-cube apart you HAD to shoot off at an angle. Kept the arguing/bit^*ing down to pretty much zero.
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The regional Mezz Tour in NY/PA/NJ played by this rule 5 or so years ago (must shoot away). I was watching the hot-seat, and one player was straight in on the 9, but about a half inch away. He was about to jack up to make it for the win, when the other player stopped him. He said: "hold on, you must shoot away from the 9 because they are less than a chalk's width away." It was already 3AM, and the tournament director had already left. But the bystanders confirmed that that was the rule and it was covered in the player's meeting at the start of the event. The shooter was an A player, and the opponent an Open player. Both would have know if it was a foul.

I do think the opponent did the correct thing. He is a fierce competitor. Never cheats, but will certainly play within the rules, and plays jam up.
 
336Robin said:
I recently quit a game over the way a fellow shot a ball. I told him there was
no way he could shoot straight into the ball without a double hit before he did it. What ensued wasn't
pretty to say the least causing me to unscrew. It was suggested that we play so I didn't pick him out to play but I accept the responsibility.

I'm unsure any arrangement would have suited this guy as he didn't understand the principles of a double hit nor would he listen to an explanation.
Not sure what to do in that situation except quit. What rule would help the game?.
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Zuglan rule... On close shots you must shoot away from the object ball. If you jack up on a real close shot he's caking it a foul. Lots of players in the northeast go by this.
 
SBC said:
Zuglan rule... On close shots you must shoot away from the object ball. If you jack up on a real close shot he's caking it a foul. Lots of players in the northeast go by this.
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How about if you shoot straight at the ball a half-inch away with draw and you get nice draw with no penetration of the space of the object ball? Is that OK with Mike?
 
iusedtoberich said:
The regional Mezz Tour in NY/PA/NJ played by this rule 5 or so years ago (must shoot away). I was watching the hot-seat, and one player was straight in on the 9, but about a half inch away. He was about to jack up to make it for the win, when the other player stopped him. He said: "hold on, you must shoot away from the 9 because they are less than a chalk's width away." It was already 3AM, and the tournament director had already left. But the bystanders confirmed that that was the rule and it was covered in the player's meeting at the start of the event. The shooter was an A player, and the opponent an Open player. Both would have know if it was a foul.



I do think the opponent did the correct thing. He is a fierce competitor. Never cheats, but will certainly play within the rules, and plays jam up.
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Perfect example of a dumb rule set. You either double hit or you don't. Why do we constantly have to create rules to accommodate the people that can't be bothered to learn the facts, to learn to identify the situation. Etc. I'm too lazy or dumb to figure this out, so I demand rules that accommodate my ignorance. Sorry to put it harshly, but that is the fact of the matter.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
SBC said:
Zuglan rule... On close shots you must shoot away from the object ball. If you jack up on a real close shot he's caking it a foul. Lots of players in the northeast go by this.
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That is not my experience on the Joss tour, nor is that my 25 years experience playing in the northeast. In my experience, in actual tournaments they call a double hit if you like, double hit the cue ball. For the most part.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
Bob Jewett said:
How about if you shoot straight at the ball a half-inch away with draw and you get nice draw with no penetration of the space of the object ball? Is that OK with Mike?
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It has always appeared that way in my experience. Anyone that calls the situation you describe a bad hit is either uninformed, or conforming to a very dumb rule set. The rules need to reflect reality. Regardless of our interpretations, reality doesn't budge.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
I have racked my brain trying to think of a sport where a penalty or foul is called on something that is not seen. I don't know how a foul can be called if an infraction is not definitively and clearly observed. In the old days, jack up 45 deg and hit to stop or draw the ball and that was good. There were no arguments. Now we play 45 and 45 with arguments. Well, I am getting rid of the second 45 and going with the DC rules for my events. It is simpler, and everyone understands. I am not going to concern myself with "purity", "fairness", and "right and wrong". I care about function. I will bet it will work just fine as it did years ago.
 
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And furthermore.......Golf changed the rule just this year. As long as a player uses one fluid stroke, a double hit is allowed. In tennis it has always been the rule. If a player uses one fluid stroke, he/she is not penalized for hitting the tennis ball twice. These rules are to provide clarity and to prevent arguments and down-time. We need to do the same.
 
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SBC said:
Zuglan rule... On close shots you must shoot away from the object ball. If you jack up on a real close shot he's caking it a foul. Lots of players in the northeast go by this.
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But what if you need to shoot straight to get the ball in or to play position? That is idiotic to do this. Call a foul when it's a foul, not when it may be a foul or ignore a foul that happens if you look like you are trying to avoid it. I have to say I played in and watched a bunch of Joss and Predator events, never have I seen this rule in place. They go to watch the hit, but if its a good hit, it's called a good hit.

Well judge, yes I killed him, but I was really trying to shoot him in the arm not the head. Oh, well that is fine then, since you tried not to kill him, case dismissed.

We teach 10 year olds the proper way to shoot, if adult pro players can't learn how to play properly they should go back to learning to count to 10 on Sesame Street.
 
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With this rule, you just opened the door for a cheater, to practice what he loves to do.
I played a guy a few times, and any time I snookered him behind a ball near the cushion, he would just slow shove the cue ball into the rail hard enough to come back out and freeze me on it. If I said foul , he would say no, I came off the edge of the ball lol, he was always shooting away from the ball!
So, instead of me having him in a jam , I am in one!
I still beat him, but it made the game about 2 balls harder.
I am always amazed, that guys who do this stuff are not all bashed up whenever you see them.
 
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