Drug Testing?

Gabber said:
We could have her examined/tested? :p

How would you feel if you had trained everyday for 8/15 years to be the best and just when you are about to achieve that goal ,some guy who is CHEATING [ full of drugs] pips you on the post?
Is that ok with you?

Gabber
Click to expand...
2nd place? not too bad.Makes you the best loser anyway.

But what about this scenario: hopolicy dictates that your first failed test requires immediate dismissal from your paying gig, then you may be re-hired, if your b sample is clean?
I believe that is worse. And it happens LOTS.
 
Man it sounds like in the search for respectability, pool sure is going to get boring. No gambling, no booze, no drugs....pretty soon they will bar the scantily clad hotties from coming.
 
uwate said:
Man it sounds like in the search for respectability, pool sure is going to get boring. No gambling, no booze, no drugs....pretty soon they will bar the scantily clad hotties from coming.
Click to expand...

Not to worry. I am including 2 pics here. One is from the banner ad on AZ Billiards here, advertising their calendar girls. WARNING, may need drugs to view the next one! The other one, for all you posters, please do not open if you are offended by nudity! God sure gave us beautiful bodies, didn't he??? I included 2 pics here because then the one wouldn't just be sitting there offending everyone, you have to open it first. So I don't want to hear any flak from anyone saying they were offended from these 'scantily clad hotties'...you opened it! LOL.
 

Attachments

  • Leah2 .jpg
    Leah2 .jpg
    18.9 KB · Views: 127
  • Billiards nudist.jpg
    Billiards nudist.jpg
    96 KB · Views: 121
Sounds to me like a lot of people just want to do drugs. How does drug testing = taking all the fun out of pool? If that's what's fun about pool to you, you shouldn't be playing on any professional tour.
 
I started a job once. My manager informed me that there was going to be a drug test. :confused: I didn't hear anything about a drug test. He says "Yeah, you bring in your drugs and we'll test 'em". Buncha pot heads. :D
 
rackmsuckr said:
Not to worry. I am including 2 pics here. One is from the banner ad on AZ Billiards here, advertising their calendar girls. WARNING, may need drugs to view the next one! The other one, for all you posters, please do not open if you are offended by nudity! God sure gave us beautiful bodies, didn't he??? I included 2 pics here because then the one wouldn't just be sitting there offending everyone, you have to open it first. So I don't want to hear any flak from anyone saying they were offended from these 'scantily clad hotties'...you opened it! LOL.
Click to expand...

Is that Grady Mathews to the left? :eek:
 
Gabber said:
We could have her examined/tested? :p

Do you remember Ben Johnston?
How would you feel if you had trained everyday for 8/15 years to be the best and just when you are about to achieve that goal ,some guy who is CHEATING [ full of drugs] pips you on the post?
Is that ok with you?
Do you agree with that?
Look at the recent Baseball drug scandals. The sport is AWASH with players on steroids and G-d knows what and they dont want to do anything about it. Are they the kind of hero's that you want your kids to look up to? Any kid? I dont think so.
If KT is really serious about changing the face of pool, the players have to be clean. Thats probably one of the reasons why he doesnt want to work with the other pool orginisations - too many conditions.

Last year, R. Ferdinand, top player for Man U and England was suspended for 9 months!!!!! just because he MISSED a drug test [ BTW it was between seasons!] He never proved positive for any banned substance.



Gabber
Click to expand...

Gabber, I'm not advocating drug use for pro players; I'm trying to increase understanding of some of the shortfalls of testing. Things such as, false positives, which drugs are OK which are not, what is a "drug," what is not a "drug," does it matter if it is a "drug" or just a chemical substance, does legal or not really matter, can any substance really help players, is it bad if a substance helps a player, why, what substances are Ok to help and which are not Ok to help, what is "helping" a player anyway, and the main point of my posts is to promote objective justice and liberty in deciding these issues, especially in the pool world, where we can become leaders in this touchy area.

Example: In this years VNEA state tourney, I was playing for second place, race to two (yikes!). I won the first game and suddenly my young opponent says he has to go to the bathroom, which seemed strange to me as we had really just started the match. Well, he comes back all happy and focused, breaks and runs out. He won the next game and therefore the match.

So, I'm thinking he's tweakin' and I'm not too happy about it. But then I get objective with myself and realize that I have no real evidence that he's using and maybe I'm just pissed at myself for losing and am using a convenient excuse to not have to face that truth.

And then I realize that even if he was using, did that use actually help him win? Again, I have no way of knowing....correlation doesn't mean causation. And then I'm thinking that maybe substances to improve are not a bad thing, as everybody uses some kinds of things to improve (foods, caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). So then I'm thinking which substances would be OK and why? So, by the time I'm done thinking about it, I'm leaning towards anyone using anything there is to play better, not just legal drugs or prescribed drugs or gentle drugs or natural food supplements or herbs or even crystal meth but anything there is, available to all, steroids, artificial eyeballs when they become available, surgeries for backs, eyes, arms, etc., etc,. I'm thinking where does it stop or should it stop and why? Maybe this is the future of accomplishment for humans.

Testing seems so stupid and shallow and insignificant and problematic in light of all that and it had better be considered carefully. That's all.

Thanks for responding in a civilized matter,

Jeff Livingston
 
What about ...

chefjeff said:
Gabber, I'm not advocating drug use for pro players; I'm trying to increase understanding of some of the shortfalls of testing. Things such as, false positives, which drugs are OK which are not, what is a "drug," what is not a "drug," does it matter if it is a "drug" or just a chemical substance, does legal or not really matter, can any substance really help players, is it bad if a substance helps a player, why, what substances are Ok to help and which are not Ok to help, what is "helping" a player anyway, and the main point of my posts is to promote objective justice and liberty in deciding these issues, especially in the pool world, where we can become leaders in this touchy area.

Example: In this years VNEA state tourney, I was playing for second place, race to two (yikes!). I won the first game and suddenly my young opponent says he has to go to the bathroom, which seemed strange to me as we had really just started the match. Well, he comes back all happy and focused, breaks and runs out. He won the next game and therefore the match.

So, I'm thinking he's tweakin' and I'm not too happy about it. But then I get objective with myself and realize that I have no real evidence that he's using and maybe I'm just pissed at myself for losing and am using a convenient excuse to not have to face that truth.

And then I realize that even if he was using, did that use actually help him win? Again, I have no way of knowing....correlation doesn't mean causation. And then I'm thinking that maybe substances to improve are not a bad thing, as everybody uses some kinds of things to improve (foods, caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). So then I'm thinking which substances would be OK and why? So, by the time I'm done thinking about it, I'm leaning towards anyone using anything there is to play better, not just legal drugs or prescribed drugs or gentle drugs or natural food supplements or herbs or even crystal meth but anything there is, available to all, steroids, artificial eyeballs when they become available, surgeries for backs, eyes, arms, etc., etc,. I'm thinking where does it stop or should it stop and why? Maybe this is the future of accomplishment for humans.

Testing seems so stupid and shallow and insignificant and problematic in light of all that and it had better be considered carefully. That's all.

Thanks for responding in a civilized matter,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Jeff ... You brought up some good points. Just using your example that
you gave, what if you had refused to play the guy in the VNEA state tourney
because you knew he was obviously on drugs? Suppose you took your
complaint to the tournament director? What would be the tournament
director's responsibility for investigating the complaint? And what would
happen if this happened in the IPT?
 
chefjeff said:
Gabber, I'm not advocating drug use for pro players; I'm trying to increase understanding of some of the shortfalls of testing. Things such as, false positives, which drugs are OK which are not, what is a "drug," what is not a "drug," does it matter if it is a "drug" or just a chemical substance, does legal or not really matter, can any substance really help players, is it bad if a substance helps a player, why, what substances are Ok to help and which are not Ok to help, what is "helping" a player anyway, and the main point of my posts is to promote objective justice and liberty in deciding these issues, especially in the pool world, where we can become leaders in this touchy area.

Example: In this years VNEA state tourney, I was playing for second place, race to two (yikes!). I won the first game and suddenly my young opponent says he has to go to the bathroom, which seemed strange to me as we had really just started the match. Well, he comes back all happy and focused, breaks and runs out. He won the next game and therefore the match.

So, I'm thinking he's tweakin' and I'm not too happy about it. But then I get objective with myself and realize that I have no real evidence that he's using and maybe I'm just pissed at myself for losing and am using a convenient excuse to not have to face that truth.

And then I realize that even if he was using, did that use actually help him win? Again, I have no way of knowing....correlation doesn't mean causation. And then I'm thinking that maybe substances to improve are not a bad thing, as everybody uses some kinds of things to improve (foods, caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). So then I'm thinking which substances would be OK and why? So, by the time I'm done thinking about it, I'm leaning towards anyone using anything there is to play better, not just legal drugs or prescribed drugs or gentle drugs or natural food supplements or herbs or even crystal meth but anything there is, available to all, steroids, artificial eyeballs when they become available, surgeries for backs, eyes, arms, etc., etc,. I'm thinking where does it stop or should it stop and why? Maybe this is the future of accomplishment for humans.

Testing seems so stupid and shallow and insignificant and problematic in light of all that and it had better be considered carefully. That's all.

Thanks for responding in a civilized matter,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
Jeff,
You have a good point regarding why should humans stop the pursuit of acquiring and using substances that can improve mental or physical performance.

There is an entire science based on neurotrophic improvement. Many of the compounds developed are useful in preventing the degeneration of brain activity.

There are health conscious groups who take combinations of amino acids like inisotol and choline and various other compounds and claim that they improve their mental functioning and general level of happiness without addictive or other harmful side effects.

So if compounds could make us smarter and deal with pressure better, and live longer healthier and productive lives without serious side effects, what would be the sense in stopping this?

Maybe we should ban meditation, wearing headsets, sefl-hypnosis and other un-natural acts.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
I thought why pool was so popular was thats its the only sport wheres its socially accepted to play drunk. They do play it in bars, don't they, more than anywhere else and lots of pool comps I've been to they want you to drink....
 
BlackDragon said:
lots of pool comps I've been to they want you to drink....
Click to expand...

Ummm ... professional events? Go play in a small, rinky-dink golf tournament some time. They want you to drink there too. I don't see Tiger boozing it up during the Masters though.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Jeff ... You brought up some good points. Just using your example that
you gave, what if you had refused to play the guy in the VNEA state tourney
because you knew he was obviously on drugs? Suppose you took your
complaint to the tournament director? What would be the tournament
director's responsibility for investigating the complaint? And what would
happen if this happened in the IPT?
Click to expand...

Hi Scott...sorry about the delay in responding...I couldn't get into this new system.

What if I had refused to play the guy and complained to the TD? First, I'd be a super wuss and wouldn't do that without a real reason for complaining. :eek:

Second, I had gotten up early that morning, taken a short walk, eaten a nice high protein breakfast, taken my food supplements, including one called Stress Relief Complex which has ingredietns called Ashwagandha Root Extract and Beta Sitosterol and L-Tyrosine, and I'd had a good boost of caffeine (and I'd been up late the night before partying in a hotel room so who knows what in my system?). All consumed in an effort to play my best, to get an edge over the competition.

Now, which player would have had a legitimate complaint against the other for using chemical substances, he or I?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Hi Scott...sorry about the delay in responding...I couldn't get into this new system.

What if I had refused to play the guy and complained to the TD? First, I'd be a super wuss and wouldn't do that without a real reason for complaining. :eek:

Second, I had gotten up early that morning, taken a short walk, eaten a nice high protein breakfast, taken my food supplements, including one called Stress Relief Complex which has ingredietns called Ashwagandha Root Extract and Beta Sitosterol and L-Tyrosine, and I'd had a good boost of caffeine (and I'd been up late the night before partying in a hotel room so who knows what in my system?). All consumed in an effort to play my best, to get an edge over the competition.

Now, which player would have had a legitimate complaint against the other for using chemical substances, he or I?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
Stop being so logical Jeff!

Don't you know that it's only right to make sure everyone is doing the right thing, in accordance with the general opinion of high school teachers and TV news anchors? Gosh, think of the communal interest!:rolleyes:

Nothing good ever came of rocking the boat:p :cool:
 
No matter how you spin it, drug testing is an invasion of privacy and a violation of the 4th amendment of the Constitution (illegal search and seizure). It never ceases to amaze me how often people are willing to give up their rights and liberties in order to try to solve a problem.
Several people have said, "If you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about." This is something the police always say when they want to search your car or your house when they have no right. If federal authorities told you that it was necessary to perform random searches of your residence, in order to stop terrorism, would you allow it? I mean, hey, if you are innocent then you have nothing to worry about, right? Our constitutional rights and civil liberties are designed to protect the innocent, not the guilty.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Jeff,
(snip)
So if compounds could make us smarter and deal with pressure better, and live longer healthier and productive lives without serious side effects, what would be the sense in stopping this?
Click to expand...

Power and control. If individuals are allowed to be free, then why do we need power-freak "leaders?" If individuals are allowed to be free to chose how to best utilize their bodies, then why do we need the War on (some) Drugs? If we don't need the WoD's then why do we need the massive growing prison industry, the overreaching court system, 75% of the police force, more reductions in our liberties, more restrictions on our movements, more invasion of our privacy, more of "saving us" by our politicians, more foreign intervention inside drug producting countries?...and don't forget, saving the children! :eek: It's one of the sneakiest excuses that any govt has ever dreamed up in order to gain power.

Have you read any of Ron Bailey's stuff in Reason:
http://reason.com/debate/eh-debate1.shtml
He's exploring these issues with...well...what else, reason...and is asking these types of questions about the direction we're headed in life extension, enhancement, etc. We're at a critical point of a complete power grab of our liberties by mostly religious-backed govts.

You're going to be in Florida for the IPT, so you might want to stay til the next weekend and check out this conference:

http://www.transhumanism.org/index....e-law-of-transhuman-persons-dec-9-10-florida/

That web site has a bunch of great articles about this subject, btw, and should be of interest to any pool players who use or are considering the issue carefully.

Enjoy,

Jeff Livingston
 
Colin Colenso said:
It has been non-olympic sports such as tennis, golf, F1, pro-wrestling, soccer etc that have thrived and the IOC has been trying to some of them back on board to gain credibility.
Click to expand...

Since when were pro-wrestling and credibility allowed in the same sentance with out a negative identifier.
 
chefjeff said:
Power and control. If individuals are allowed to be free, then why do we need power-freak "leaders?" If individuals are allowed to be free to chose how to best utilize their bodies, then why do we need the War on (some) Drugs? If we don't need the WoD's then why do we need the massive growing prison industry, the overreaching court system, 75% of the police force, more reductions in our liberties, more restrictions on our movements, more invasion of our privacy, more of "saving us" by our politicians, more foreign intervention inside drug producting countries?...and don't forget, saving the children! :eek: It's one of the sneakiest excuses that any govt has ever dreamed up in order to gain power.

Have you read any of Ron Bailey's stuff in Reason:
http://reason.com/debate/eh-debate1.shtml
He's exploring these issues with...well...what else, reason...and is asking these types of questions about the direction we're headed in life extension, enhancement, etc. We're at a critical point of a complete power grab of our liberties by mostly religious-backed govts.

You're going to be in Florida for the IPT, so you might want to stay til the next weekend and check out this conference:

http://www.transhumanism.org/index....e-law-of-transhuman-persons-dec-9-10-florida/

That web site has a bunch of great articles about this subject, btw, and should be of interest to any pool players who use or are considering the issue carefully.

Enjoy,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
I'll try to check out Ron's stuff. I'm guessing it's similar to a lot of other stuff I used to read, but could be some new stuff worth checking out!

I have to get back straight after the IPT for business unfortunately, but thanks for the heads up Jeff.
 
supergreenman said:
Since when were pro-wrestling and credibility allowed in the same sentance with out a negative identifier.
Click to expand...
There was the qualifier 'some' put in there.

I was trying to save some space and compress ideas:p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top