Educate me about rails.

[JB Cases]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

 

[Maniac]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

I'm with you, John. I've often wondered what all the fuss is about...and what make them so superior.

Maniac

 

[j_zippel]

Great topic I'm quite interested as well. Are there engineered specs that improve a table? Material types, etc?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Allen Brown]

There are six rails on the tables I play on. I'm ready to be educated too.

 

[vagabond]

It starts with the quality Inspector at the pool table manufacturing company that discrads the deffective rubber of the rails.

 

[thefonz]

I'd like to see a pool table table built like the old riley steel railed tables.

 

[Mr. Bond]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

The funny thing is, its not that their rails are better than "normal", its the fact that getting someone to actually do a good a job and do it properly is so rare, that now all the Marks, Ernestos, and Glens of the mechanic world look like super heros simply because they actually know what theyre doing and have the proper tools.

Imagine a cue case industry where everyone used burlap, duct tape and cardboard, except for you.

 

[All4Moose]

John
they take the time to make sure that the cloth is pulled correctly, the pockets are cut at the correct angle, proper rail height, their knowledge goes far more than this as well.... repairs... well their work speaks volumes.
I believe most "mechanics" are just out there to make a living, and are not as passionate about doing the job to the extent of glen, mark, ernesto, ect... A player knows what a table should play like, and if the "mechanic" isn't a player they really are not going to be able to set it up to those standards.

 

[dom_poppa]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

What makes a great case builder?

I think you have your answer.

 

[wendyb]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

What Glen did to mine was rebuild the rails, the understanding I got was ( i probally missed a few points) this--- the wood was all splintery from so many recovers and all the staple holes that leaves, also the rubber was the original Brunswick super speed from about 30 years ago. The rubber cushion that are made in today’s world has a smaller width on the stick up side and a different nose profile and don’t fit the older gold crown stock rails so he replaced the wood on the rails, and reshaped it to fit the artimus k66 rubber I ordered. so basically it was like getting new factory rails , all new wood and also make them a little longer, resulting in a tighter ball drop pocket. I asked for 4.5 inch pockets, and now and in the future all the the modern k66 cushions will fit the stick em part of the rail with the correct clearance to the slate. At least that’s how I understood the whole rebuild rails part. I was all new wood, no nasty green dog chewed up looking wood with enough layers of rubber on the pocket inside that it looked like a floating marina. All the wooded sides and angled edges of the rails were very precisely done. very clean, and brand new looking.
Then of course he recovers them with out any puckers or saggy baggy, check out the simonis cloth installation training video and you can see the method he uses. He even explains it on the video how to not leave the cushion squeezed under the cloth, and he used a very precise folding on cloth at the various pockets.
So to me, its the new wood on the rails and the re angeling of the stick em part of the rail that is really necessary when you have a older table. On the Simonis video you can see him in business attire. Possibly a rare sight.

 

[seven_7days]

What makes a great case builder?

I think you have your answer.

 

[Scaramouche]

I'd like to see a pool table table built like the old riley steel railed tables.

I tried to get a discussion on this topic - it died an neglected death, probably because American pool players and table manufacturers never heard of steel-block cushions.


http://www.snookermania.co.uk/steel-block-cushions.html

http://www.englishbilliards.org/MakingCushionsPart1
http://www.englishbilliards.org/MakingCushionsPart2

An Added Bonus for all you tip pressers
http://www.englishbilliards.org/TipClamp

 

[smashmouth]

I would think the carom guys could chime in on this topic as their rails are by far the most important in all of cue sports

 

[TATE]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

It's mainly ability to take English, consistency in speed and rebound angle and ability to have the pocket custom cut to your preferences. Good cushions set at the proper height give a smooth and level rebound to the cue ball.

Ernesto did two tables of mine, an Olhausen and a Brunswick. Ernesto told me he uses Artemis German rubber cushions.

The Olhausen was a lower end model. It came with very hard, very bouncy factory cushions with huge pockets. Before the new rails were installed, I had another mechanic triple shim the pockets on a re-cloth. They still were too big and the pockets wouldn't take a hard hit down-the-rail shot. Rails that are too hard or set at an incorrect height don't take English well and bank poorly. When Ernesto was done with the Olhausen, the rails took English beautifully, the pockets were cut tight and would take a ball fired from anywhere.

I got rid of the Olhausen and decided to buy a nicer table. Ernesto had already set up the Brunswick Gibson - it played just like my other table. Rails were perfect, consistent, took English well and were not bouncy. Pockets were cut the way he cuts them, tight and receptive.

I've played on Diamond tables Glen has set up as well and they are also exceptional. Consistent rails, accurately cut pockets. Glen uses a little larger pocket opening and more angle making them play different but the pocket is good and fair.

Cushions and rails pretty much make the table. Ernesto took a really bad playing Olhausen and made it play like a dream.

 

[Cornerman]

So I have seen a lot of discussion about who does the best rail work. And I have seen rails that play badly, uneven, wavy cushions, dead spots etc...

But what is better about the rail work that Mark Gregory, Ernesto Dominguez and Glenn are doing?

Those of you who have had your rails done what about them is better than what is normally done. How do your tables play differently?

I hate to be out of the loop on this and see it be such a big part of the discussions and not understand what it's about.

I know that last time I recovered my table, I decided to double shim it. For a hack and for the cheap table, I did a decent job and quite honestly, it looked better than a lot of pool rooms. But, that's not exactly saying I did a great job.

If I could have done it the best way, I would have bought new cushions, removed the old ones, cleaned off the glue, made squaring fixtures, cut the cushions to the correct length and angles, install the cushions, and then recovered the cushions with new cloth. The idea of "correct length and angles" is pretty vague, since every table type is different so the installer really has to have a good handle on what correct is for that table. That comes with expert experience, something I don't have.

So, option #2 (the right way), the elite professional mechanics can do that without much thinking since they do it all the time and they have the process down. Glen drives around in a traveling shop to do all this. For home guys like me, I'd never be able to do option #2 correctly unless I had more opportunities to do it. What I did (just add shims) worked for me, but is by far many levels below what Mark, Ernesto, and Glen do.

Freddie <~~~ Hack times 10

 

[CreeDo]

There's a video I found here. I'm sure glen would say this guy is a total hack etc.
but he seems to know what he's doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMkWX8aoa3w

Just from a player's viewpoint, think a huge part of it is how carefully someone stretches the cloth
across the rail, and how carefully they staple it. Just like the slate covering, the cloth should be stretched
very tight and it's easy to spot when it isn't. The routine action of sliding your hand across the top
of the rail causes it to bunch up and even pop out of the feather strip.

And you can tell when someone doesn't staple evenly or tries to get away with only a few staples.
You can see stretch marks across the top of the rails every few inches wherever they had a staple,
when they don't use enough staples.
I think you want an even row of staples that are only millimeters apart.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Are there engineered specs that improve a table?

No, but thankfully there is something much better - empirically derived specs based upon opinions obtained from the best players in the world.

John, everything you may want to know about rails is here on AZB thanks to numerous posts by RKC, Mark Gregory, etc. It's not so much the perfection of workmanship, it's the specs that these pioneers arrived at through trial and error.

I called Mark a while back and he advised against having him do my rails because the $1300 or so cost (plus shipping both ways) would not be warranted on a furniture-type table like I have. When I told him I was a lifelong woodworker he suggested I could do the job myself. All of the sub-rail extension and calibration specs, down angles, pocket facing angles, facing materials, etc. that both Glen and Mark use are found within several threads here on AZB.

Start with a search for "sub-rail calibration" and go from there. At least a few guys without a lot of experience have done their own rails using these specs and posted the results here.

 

[yelvis111]

What makes a great case builder?

I think you have your answer.

What makes a great troll?

BOOM, goes the dynamite.

 

[Ken_4fun]

I know that last time I recovered my table, I decided to double shim it. For a hack and for the cheap table, I did a decent job and quite honestly, it looked better than a lot of pool rooms. But, that's not exactly saying I did a great job.

If I could have done it the best way, I would have bought new cushions, removed the old ones, cleaned off the glue, made squaring fixtures, cut the cushions to the correct length and angles, install the cushions, and then recovered the cushions with new cloth. The idea of "correct length and angles" is pretty vague, since every table type is different so the installer really has to have a good handle on what correct is for that table. That comes with expert experience, something I don't have.

So, option #2 (the right way), the elite professional mechanics can do that without much thinking since they do it all the time and they have the process down. Glen drives around in a traveling shop to do all this. For home guys like me, I'd never be able to do option #2 correctly unless I had more opportunities to do it. What I did (just add shims) worked for me, but is by far many levels below what Mark, Ernesto, and Glen do.

Freddie <~~~ Hack times 10

I agree with Freddy on this one, and we never agree.:thumbup:

When I hear people talking about "shiming", or "double shimming" they are basically using the same rails and then adding a piece of rubber on the inside of the pockets to make the pockets smaller.

They are using the existing "cushion" or "rail" and adding these pieces of rubber making the pocket smaller. After adding the pieces, the rail is recovered with the smaller opening. What happens is the table is basically ruined. You cannot make a bank shot off that rubber piece, and have any idea where the ball is actually going to go.

People who do this, IMO, really don't understand that this will probably make them play worse instead of better. What happens is smart players will not shoot the shots that they would normally shoot and they play differently. They don't play better, they play a different game.

IMO, anyone that "hacks" up a table like this, they really don't understand the game. But someone who really doesn't understand the game puts this "shimming" out there like a badge of honor and I look at it as someone that just told me they really don't have clue.

ON THE OTHER WAY

The mechanics put all new rubber (slightly longer) and the woodwork behind them and they can make the entire rail one piece so the table is tightened (smaller pockets), but will bank true.

While I am not a big fan of making it so tight that a ball will barely fit, making slight change probably isn't such a horrible thing.

So IMO, once you play on a "hacked up" table and try to make a bank or anything else on those "shimmed" pockets, you will fully understand some of the frustrations.

Hope that helps.

Ken

 

[kaylaemarx]

Each shooter hits a ball from one rail, the long way down the table, bounces it off the far bank, and tries to stop his ball closest to the beginning rail.