Efren Reyes NOT allowed to play the Qatar 9-ball Open by the WPA

Personally, I don't think Barry Behrman would be vulnerable to this type of horse jackery. Barry wants the best and greatest players at his event. I would even go as far as putting my neck on the block, and venture to say that if presented with the option to kowtow to the WPA just so his event would be "sanctioned" or a qualifier for the WPA (with the stipulation that the WPA could regulate who can or cannot participate in the U.S. Open), I'd say Barry wouldn't hesitate to tell the WPA to "get bent." Barry's event is still the longest-running and most prestigious 9-ball event, and won't let a politics-poisoned body stand in his way.

That's pure conjecture and supposition on my part, but I have this deep-seated feeling that it's not too far off.

-Sean

In my opinion, the US Open is sanctioned by WPA because it is an important "Independant World Event." Players participating in the event, in good standing with their respective Federations would get "points" for the WPA ranking system. Those not in good standing or not belonging to any Federation would not recieve points in the WPA ranking system for this particular event.

In the Qatar Open (an APBU-WPA) event, players had to be in good standing with the APBU to play. Since the mentioned players apparently are no longer members of the APBU, they were not allowed to play.

This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.....
 
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WPA and some organizer think they are bigger than the players? Ever heard of Tiger Woods getting banned? Federer, Nadal, the Williams? Kobe and Lebron getting banned? The athletes are the superstars, the athletes is the sport, not the sanctioning body, not the organizing body.
 
With this being the Qatar 9-ball "Open" and these top guys not being able to play because of WPA, are they going to be playing in the US Open, as the US Open is listed in this "WPA ranking tour" (Philippine Open, China Open, Qatar Open, US Open, and the World Ten Ball Championship)???

They better be allowed to play in the US Open, or change the name of the tournament.
 
.................why does WPA allow certain players to play and other not?

I really want to know what is going on... This is not good for the sport. Not at all.

Shame on WPA

It is a bit of a mess.

Many players are 'not in good standing' with their federations. Wu Chia Ching is one of the prime examples. Most of the Dragon Promotions players have played in events not sanctioned by the WPA.

Niels Feijen missed a Euro Tour to play in a conflicting event. Neither the Dutch or the Spanish federations are listed as Full Members of the EPBF.

Fabio Petroni cannot play in the European Championship yet he is in Qatar.

In the UK the Federation that is recognised does not represent the major players. So if the WPA were to apply the 'letter of the law' then such players as Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann, Rodney Morris would be excluded from their events.

But it is selective discrimination that they are applying.

I know how Matchroom Sports would handle the situation but it would be good to know what Barry Behrman would do if BMPAP/Bugsy's/Puyatt were to send Efren, Alex and Django, Alcano, Orcullo and Gomez to the US Open.

Would he resist any possible demands from the WPA at the risk of losing his sanction?
 
Setting the record straight.

Setting the record straight. All of the BMPAP players can play in ALL WPA events through qualifiers IF they are members of the recognized national org. All this requires in the Phillipines was filling out the form and paying the dues. More later.
 
Setting the record straight. All of the BMPAP players can play in ALL WPA events through qualifiers IF they are members of the recognized national org. All this requires in the Phillipines was filling out the form and paying the dues. More later.

Yes, that was the route used by Alcano and Pagulyan (and a few others) in Qatar last year
 
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bmpap sort out the issues with bscp/rayasports.

bmpap players lose out in this case

lose out on the prize money.

they join these tournaments, they will go far if not win it
 
Setting the record straight. All of the BMPAP players can play in ALL WPA events through qualifiers IF they are members of the recognized national org. All this requires in the Phillipines was filling out the form and paying the dues. More later.

If i'm not mistaken the " filling out of the form" was an issue. They didn't like to fill out a form from bscp.

Going through the qualifiers are not a problem for them, they have the greatest players today.
 
Setting the record straight. All of the BMPAP players can play in ALL WPA events through qualifiers IF they are members of the recognized national org. All this requires in the Phillipines was filling out the form and paying the dues. More later.

That's the problem, imo.

By filling out that form they say that they agree that Yen Makabenta and BSCP are the governing body of Philippine Pro Pool, which they certainly not do.

Even the court of laws in the Philippines means that BSCP/Yen Makabenta is not the proper organization for the pro players in the Philippines.

Should they just sign those papers and give up what they believe, just because the BSCP/APBU/WPA says that they need to fill out those forms.

If they do fill out those forms it means that Yen Makabenta can claim that Efren & Co has joined his organization.

These players want absolutely nothing to do with Yen Makabenta and his group.

I wish Edwin Reyes were here to explain it properly, but unfortunately he is not able to fight for the group of BMPAP, against BSCP and Yen Makabenta...
 
I think that news like this are BREAKING NEWS. It would certainly be if Tiger Woods were banned from Pro Golf tournaments...

So, why no news on AZ frontpage?

Could it be because one of the owners of AZ is also a member of the board of the WPA, and would prefer this issue not to be publically discussed at all?
 
I think that news like this are BREAKING NEWS. It would certainly be if Tiger Woods were banned from Pro Golf tournaments...

So, why no news on AZ frontpage?

Could it be because one of the owners of AZ is also a member of the board of the WPA, and would prefer this issue not to be publically discussed at all?

It would not be proper Jerry Forsyth to discuss WPA matters on a Public Forum. But I am waiting for his influence to show itself. His committment to players is unquestionable. But he is just one voice.
 
It would not be proper Jerry Forsyth to discuss WPA matters on a Public Forum. But I am waiting for his influence to show itself. His committment to players is unquestionable. But he is just one voice.

I don't expect him to discuss it here on the forum, but I think that AZ could atleast make a story of the fact that Efren Reyes is not allowed to compete on the WPA tour.

That is breaking news, isn't?
 
Continued:

Ok, during the China Open I sat down with Ian Anderson, the current president of the WPA, and we discussed a lot of things starting with the Phillipine issue.

The first thing is that the WPA is aware that favoritism and politics can get in the way of having the best players from a country nominated to fill the invited spots in WPA events. It it not the WPA's mandate and cannot be their madate to dictate to organizations at the national level which players to nominate to represent that country. They must respect the hierarchy.

Having said that though the WPA has made a ruling last year that says that as long as any player anywhere is simply a member in good standing, i.e. they have paid their dues to the organization then they are allowed to play in the qualifying rounds of any WPA event. And then IF they finish high enough to maintain ranking then they are automatically invited to future events. This is the WPA's workaround to allow players who do not get nominated for the invited spots a chance to participate in WPA events.

The WPA works as a hierarchy. The lowest level of this organization are the country organizations. If the WPA does not respect a country's right to govern itself and subsequently the continental member's right to police the country organizations under it then the whole thing will fall apart. As a player the ONLY way to participate in the WPA organization's tournaments is to be a member of some country's recognized organization.

Roy, you said that they don't want to be members of the organization out of protest. Fine. Then they can't participate in the WPA events and this is the price of protest. I don't understand how they expect to vote someone out of office if they aren't members of the organization? The point is that they can still be members, can still protect their ability to compete on the world stage through the WPA rules and STILL protest the leadership of the organization.

The WPA made a rule that is good for the disenfranchised players around the world, not just the Filipinos. The BMPAP is WELL AWARE of the rule and could have taken advantage of it to get their players into all the WPA events.

It is my gripe here that the MANAGERS are being silly not to allow their horses to run the races and take the money. The BMPAP complains of not having enough money, then they should have gotten into the last three events and taken down the lion's share of the prize money and then used that money to wage their fight, stage their events, fund thier court battles, whatever... but as it is they, the MANAGERS, are now the ones who are holding the players back.

EVEN IF everything were great in the Phillipines then there would only be so many spots available per WPA tournament through invites. The rest of the Filipinos would have to go the qualifying route.

Edwin would say that not allowing the players the chance to play and earn money when a door has been opened is not good for the players.

It's not that the WPA does not want the best Filipino players or the best players from around the world - they do but they have to respect the system that is in place.

As I told Ian Anderson, I think that the WPA needs a press secretary or a public relations person to tell their side of the story. Not that they are saints but a lot of the time message boards like this one are filled with speculation demonizing the WPA when in fact very little is known of what they do for pool and how they go about it.

Even a Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Michael Schumacher etc... has to respect the rules and hieracrchy of the organizations that govern their sport. If they elect to not be members of that organization then they forfeit any chance to play in the tournaments that are sanctioned by that organization, at least under the spots granted to the organization for each event. That's the way it is.

The WPA knows that the outcome of the Filipino situation is still up in the air. When and if there is a definitive ruling that completely solidifies one group then the WPA will recognize that group as the national member of the WPA. Until then they have NO CHOICE but to continue to recognize the group that has been in place and that they have been dealing with for many years.

So, in conclusion, Efren and the rest of the BMPAP players would be allowed to play if their MANAGERS would allow it.
 
Continued:

Ok, during the China Open I sat down with Ian Anderson, the current president of the WPA, and we discussed a lot of things starting with the Phillipine issue.

The first thing is that the WPA is aware that favoritism and politics can get in the way of having the best players from a country nominated to fill the invited spots in WPA events. It it not the WPA's mandate and cannot be their madate to dictate to organizations at the national level which players to nominate to represent that country. They must respect the hierarchy.

Having said that though the WPA has made a ruling last year that says that as long as any player anywhere is simply a member in good standing, i.e. they have paid their dues to the organization then they are allowed to play in the qualifying rounds of any WPA event. And then IF they finish high enough to maintain ranking then they are automatically invited to future events. This is the WPA's workaround to allow players who do not get nominated for the invited spots a chance to participate in WPA events.

The WPA works as a hierarchy. The lowest level of this organization are the country organizations. If the WPA does not respect a country's right to govern itself and subsequently the continental member's right to police the country organizations under it then the whole thing will fall apart. As a player the ONLY way to participate in the WPA organization's tournaments is to be a member of some country's recognized organization.

Roy, you said that they don't want to be members of the organization out of protest. Fine. Then they can't participate in the WPA events and this is the price of protest. I don't understand how they expect to vote someone out of office if they aren't members of the organization? The point is that they can still be members, can still protect their ability to compete on the world stage through the WPA rules and STILL protest the leadership of the organization.

The WPA made a rule that is good for the disenfranchised players around the world, not just the Filipinos. The BMPAP is WELL AWARE of the rule and could have taken advantage of it to get their players into all the WPA events.

It is my gripe here that the MANAGERS are being silly not to allow their horses to run the races and take the money. The BMPAP complains of not having enough money, then they should have gotten into the last three events and taken down the lion's share of the prize money and then used that money to wage their fight, stage their events, fund thier court battles, whatever... but as it is they, the MANAGERS, are now the ones who are holding the players back.

EVEN IF everything were great in the Phillipines then there would only be so many spots available per WPA tournament through invites. The rest of the Filipinos would have to go the qualifying route.

Edwin would say that not allowing the players the chance to play and earn money when a door has been opened is not good for the players.

It's not that the WPA does not want the best Filipino players or the best players from around the world - they do but they have to respect the system that is in place.

As I told Ian Anderson, I think that the WPA needs a press secretary or a public relations person to tell their side of the story. Not that they are saints but a lot of the time message boards like this one are filled with speculation demonizing the WPA when in fact very little is known of what they do for pool and how they go about it.

Even a Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Michael Schumacher etc... has to respect the rules and hieracrchy of the organizations that govern their sport. If they elect to not be members of that organization then they forfeit any chance to play in the tournaments that are sanctioned by that organization, at least under the spots granted to the organization for each event. That's the way it is.

The WPA knows that the outcome of the Filipino situation is still up in the air. When and if there is a definitive ruling that completely solidifies one group then the WPA will recognize that group as the national member of the WPA. Until then they have NO CHOICE but to continue to recognize the group that has been in place and that they have been dealing with for many years.

So, in conclusion, Efren and the rest of the BMPAP players would be allowed to play if their MANAGERS would allow it.

So does this mean if they pay their dues, then can then fly halfway around the world to play in a Qualifier? Let's see, Efren Reyes in a qualifier, Francisco Bustamante in a qualifier, Dennis Orcollo, Ronnie Alcano, Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez, Warren Kiamco all playing in qualifiers to get into the main draw. Is that correct?

Why does this not seem right to me? Here you have UNQUESTIONABLY seven of the top pool players on the planet who now must play in a qualifier where maybe two players get into the main draw. Such a deal!

I think there's more to the story than this. And it sounds like honey and rhymes with sunny. :cool:
 
So does this mean if they pay their dues, then can then fly halfway around the world to play in a Qualifier? Let's see, Efren Reyes in a qualifier, Francisco Bustamante in a qualifier, Dennis Orcollo, Ronnie Alcano, Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez, Warren Kiamco all playing in qualifiers to get into the main draw. Is that correct?

Why does this not seem right to me? Here you have UNQUESTIONABLY seven of the top pool players on the planet who now must play in a qualifier where maybe two players get into the main draw. Such a deal!

I think there's more to the story than this. And it sounds like honey and rhymes with sunny. :cool:

No doubt that it's not an ideal solution. As I have proposed on here many times I also proposed it to Ian Anderson that perhaps the WPA needs to have another member category which is a "Professional Player" category. This level of membership would be outside country and only allow players who meet the criteria and have earned the right to be included as professionals and not treated as amateurs.

It is however a workaround that the WPA has instituted so as NOT to start destroying the organization that they are built on.

The point is Jay that they are not BANNED from the WPA events as has been reported. The players can play.

You can look at it any way you want to but it is what it is. Efren Reyes is not banned from playing in the Guiness Tour for example. He CHOOSES not to play because he is sponsored by San Miguel Beer.

The state of affairs in the Phillipines is a sorry one and those who are in the know are fully aware that no one has clean hands regarding all the goings on. There is a lot of money at stake here and that is why both sides are using the players as pawns.

Even IF the WPA said that they would grant exemptions for the Phillipines top players then those players would still need to have their backer's approval and funding in order to attend the events. What are the chances that this would happen if the backers said no?

The way to get exemptions however is to get in the events and build up the rankings points and thus be exempt from having to qualify. It's just the way it is.

Look at it like the WPBA - you can be the best player in the world but if you want to play on the WPBA then you MUST go through their qualifying system. Once qualified and you maintain a high enough ranking then you are in all the time.

But it's useless to complain about not being invited or allowed to play when you won't even remain a member of the organization whose events you wish to play in.

My take on this is that the best players in the Philippines should sign the forms - pay the dues - and then SUE THE LEADERSHIP if they fail to provide a fair method of determining rankings and a clear method of choosing which players receive the allocated spots for international events. Change comes from within.

Let's not forget who was in charge before Makebenta and Fajardo. The point being that this is politics pure and simple and it cannot and will not be resolved by any WPA decision to recognize one group over another. IF the WPA were to do that then it opens up the door for any other group to do the same and demand recognition in every other country.

There is a path for all Filipino players to be able to play in WPA events. It's a crappy path for sure but the WPA has done all it can to give those players a chance to participate.

Leave the WPA out of it when it comes to Filipino pool. The WPA represents pool around the world not just in the Philippines. If the professionals of the world want to deal with the WPA on a equal basis then they need to form their own organization and request a seat at the table representing their members. Then those members won't be subject to the internal politics of any member nation.
 
So does this mean if they pay their dues, then can then fly halfway around the world to play in a Qualifier? Let's see, Efren Reyes in a qualifier, Francisco Bustamante in a qualifier, Dennis Orcollo, Ronnie Alcano, Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez, Warren Kiamco all playing in qualifiers to get into the main draw. Is that correct?

Why does this not seem right to me? Here you have UNQUESTIONABLY seven of the top pool players on the planet who now must play in a qualifier where maybe two players get into the main draw. Such a deal!

I think there's more to the story than this. And it sounds like honey and rhymes with sunny. :cool:

If you remember Ronnie Alcano was NOT granted a spot in the 2007 World Championships. He won a spot in the last qualifier.

Who is Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez? What have they won? I mean of course these are great players - but the point is that there IS a system in place for them to work their way up and achieve rank and not have to sweat getting invited.

It's not our playground.

It's not our system.

We don't put up the money.

We don't organize the events.

We don't set the rules.

Pool is incredibly fragmented around the globe despite the WPA's best efforts.

The WPA has undertaken to try and make 7 events a year be World Ranking Events for the purpose of establishing a world ranking that can be relied on.

They have to have SOME KIND of rules in place about who can participate and how they can participate.

IF they were to do it arbitrarily like the IPT did then they would completely destroy the organization that they have built over the past 20 years. This is an organization that consists of dozens of national members and six continental members and a board where almost all of the PEOPLE working in all these organizations are doing so on a voluntary basis and often spending their own money to do the job.

Of course Ian Anderson knows that it completely BLOWS to ask Efren Reyes to play in a qualifier and if he had a way to exempt Efren WITHOUT destroying the system then he would gladly do so.
 
If you remember Ronnie Alcano was NOT granted a spot in the 2007 World Championships. He won a spot in the last qualifier.

Who is Lee Van Corteza, Roberto Gomez? What have they won? I mean of course these are great players - but the point is that there IS a system in place for them to work their way up and achieve rank and not have to sweat getting invited.

It's not our playground.

It's not our system.

We don't put up the money.

We don't organize the events.

We don't set the rules.

Pool is incredibly fragmented around the globe despite the WPA's best efforts.

The WPA has undertaken to try and make 7 events a year be World Ranking Events for the purpose of establishing a world ranking that can be relied on.

They have to have SOME KIND of rules in place about who can participate and how they can participate.

IF they were to do it arbitrarily like the IPT did then they would completely destroy the organization that they have built over the past 20 years. This is an organization that consists of dozens of national members and six continental members and a board where almost all of the PEOPLE working in all these organizations are doing so on a voluntary basis and often spending their own money to do the job.

Of course Ian Anderson knows that it completely BLOWS to ask Efren Reyes to play in a qualifier and if he had a way to exempt Efren WITHOUT destroying the system then he would gladly do so.

Thank you John for your replies on here. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say or even what you've been told by the powers that be. I think there is a little more afoot than even you realize.

As an example, in every professional golf and tennis tournament, the sponsors/promoters get a certain number of "invitations" (aka exemptions) that they can use to invite any player they want into their field. Simple solution to a complicated problem. Why not allow the sponsors (promoters) of a major pool tournament to have four "invitations" per 64 players? Or does that make to much sense.

If the WPA is indeed in control and they really do want to correct this problem, then they should be able to implement this into any events that they sanction. It ain't that hard baby! UNLESS there is more to this "problem" than you think. Of course they're not going to ask me. They already tried that once and when I asked questions and offered my input, I was greeted by silence.

P.S. I can't believe you asked me who is Corteza and Gomez. Only two of the top 25 players in the world! Lee Van won Turning Stone two years ago with a full field of 128 players. He just won the Fatboy Ten Ball Challenge at DCC with sixteen of the world's best players in the field. Gomez was second in the last World 9-Ball Championship to Darryl Peach. He is considered first tier in the Philippines, putting him in a very elite category.
 
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