Enough MC talk. It's irrelevant

[watchez]

JAM - I feel like we are talking in circles. You gave the example of Keith being righfully upset when someone opposed his ability to make a shot he described. You also stated you didn't think today's pro would be accepting of Mark. Perhaps I misinterpreted this line of thinking and if so I apologize. This does not correlate to Mark and the Mosconi Cup.

You should read about Coach K at Duke sometime. Interesting man -- and one of his biggest philosphies is to never criticize one of his players for taking a shot. I feel that Mark would be the same with any pro team he was the captain of. Again, you wouldn't put Keith McCready on the Mosconi Cup team and then try to teach him how to play better safeties.

My support of Mark is that he is a man of highest integrity and knows how to build character. I am sorry if this offends some, but there is the need to build with the USA Pro player. Mark has unwaivering enthusiasm as well. I have watched him give a lesson to a C player for 4 hours. I can't imagine the drive you must have inside to do that.

Also, Mark has been involved in pro pool in the past decade just not as a playing participant. He has been the voice of the WPBA and also been heavily involved in events such as the DCC and doing commentary for Accu Stats. It's not like he has been holed up in his living room, making pool videos with his girlfriend to peddle to the world.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

After every rack, Johan fist bumped, back patted or hugged his player. The whole team did, with exception to those in the "on deck circle" that were on the practice table in the adjoining room. I may have missed a couple knuckle bumps while I was face palming.

 

[Wedge]

Important Question

If Matchroom and Barry Hearn allow Canada (AKA Alex) to play on the 2014 Mosconi Cup will our new chant be US-Eh ?

Wedge

 

[leto1776]

Congrats, AZB, it took you less than one page to derail a thread and turn it into yet another discussion on Mark Wilson, the flavor of the week.

If they CAN'T afford to go across a few states to enter a tournament, where are they going to get the money to live overseas to concentrate on LEARNING and getting SEASONED in pool?

I lived in the Philippines for 3 years and it is VERY cheap...compared to numerous countries thoroughout the world. However, I had a JOB at the time and wasn't reliant on pool as a "needed" source of income. I made as much money shooting pool off-duty as I did working full-time, but that was MANY years ago when pool flourished and there were gamblers and money to be had. You DIDN'T have to be the world champion to win money there, but you had to know your game and match up accordingly.

I don't mean to single-out or criticize the Philippines, because hijinks and crookery exist in every country and culture on the planet, but I would warn ANYONE who goes there to attempt that endeavor actually KNOW and TRUST whoever their SPONSOR is there. ANYBODY who has EVER went there or lived there for ANY amount of time will KNOW what I am talking about.

You can go over there and be the "Lone Ranger", but having trusted friends there makes it MUCH easier and safer.

Aloha.

This is more back on topic. Yes, if it takes moving overseas for American pros to be competitive on the world stage, that's what they'll have to do. Yes, they'll more than likely have to get gets jobs ("heavens forbid, No!NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!") to support themselves in this.I don't think working a few hours a day will hurt them too much in the long run. Might even help them learn a little of the discipline that they lack on the whole.

Either that, or stay in the U.S, where they're gonna end up needing to get jobs anyway.

 

[jburkm002]

Not sure who even picks the Captain. Is it a person or committee? Is the Mosconi cup a competition or exhibition? What can be gained form the cup besides winning or losing? How can someone bring in more viewers than last year? I still hear people on here stating they didn't watch. I believe CJ Wiley said he didn't watch. How do you get the disenfranchised to watch again and create a new fan base? I may be wrong but I don't think it's picking yet another person in the pool industry that isnt a household name. Not even known honestly in the pool world. What I mean is, ask league players to name 5 pro players . Most cannot. Even those that could probably have to idea who Mark Wilson is. Maybe I am wrong and thats has nothing to do with Mark. It's the state of the pool world right now. Not on ESPN every week anymore. I still say it is more important to pick someone that could bring in a fan base. First time viewers who make get hooked. Is the captain the key or the players? Find the cutest 16 year old junior player and put him on the team. His facebook would blow up with the younger generation. You can put a team together with the older guys that no one connects to. If winning is whats important. I think creating a fan base is more important. Pro pool is dying. Less and less pro tournaments. If they are already broke then I am sure they are worried about their future. There may be no tomorrow if people don't think of the big picture today.

 

[AtLarge]

I agree with Jam,no disrespect meant to Mark Wilson,he may be a great teacher of the game ,but what titles has he ever won. ... I think a team captain needs to be an accomplished pro like Archer,who has played under pressure in big events and knows what it takes to get there. ...

Please list the pool titles won as a player by Johan Ruijsink.

You might want to read (or re-read) this post by watchez: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4502583&postcount=247. I don't know whether it is 100% accurate, but it certainly makes the point.

 

[CJ Wiley]

US Open 10 Ball and Ultimate 10 Ball Championships

What was the last pro tournament that CJ Wiley played in before he was captain? How about Buddy Hall?

I don't have a chance to play in many Pro Tournaments, although I'd play in all of them if they were televised....there's not much upside to winning a tournament that's not.

The US Open 9 Ball and US Open 10 Ball and Ultimate 10 Ball Championships (in Frisco Texas) a couple of years ago......I got 9th in the US OPEN 9 Ball - Shane and Johnny beat me in the 10 Ball...I'm not sure about Buddy Hall's last tournament, but most will agree he is a living legend in the world of pool.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Americans need to convince a few megabucks corporations to subsidize the best American players so they can attend and compete in tournaments. It would be very small change for a few of them to sponsor half a dozen players. That's how everything else gets started.

The Mosconi Cup is more and more irrelevant each year. It's actually the problem, not the solution, or, at least, a symptom of the problem.

No mega buck corp is going to drop dime until they believe the broken product can be fixed.

The biggest spectacle in pool, The Cup, got its ass handed to it.

Asia just dropped 8 tournies. 3 years ago the Phillipines, post Edwin Reyes' tragic murder, went dark. Now the US has dropped big tournies.

Each of the 3 aforementioned examples happened WHY?


Question: WTF is left?

Answer: Change and opportunity

 

[leto1776]

CJ, to get back on topic, do you have any ideas for American players, to get them ready for true international competitions?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mark would do fine as a coach, I doubt if many players would want the job..

Do you know any good coaches?

Yes, I've done a lot of work with Hank Haney, he's a good coach, but he wouldn't be good for the Mosconi Cup team.

The Mosconi Cup is a show and the players are actors. The Coach is the Director and since he doesn't "cast" the actors he's at a disadvantage.

The Coach probably doesn't make much difference unless they're really bad. I actually think one of the players should be coach too. In 1996 I was a player and a coach of the Mosconi Team and we did fine and won 15/13.....for the most part the coach has to know how to win.....and motivate the players to focus despite all the distractions.

Mark would do fine as a coach, I doubt if many players would want the job (it's a lot of trouble for minimum wage)....he can play too if he wants, at least it then would be profitable.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The Ropes Course and Severe Combat Training is what the USA Team Needs!!!

CJ, to get back on topic, do you have any ideas for American players, to get them ready for true international competitions?

Yes, I'd make them go through some brutal training if we really wanted to win. They would be tearing bark off trees by the third week.

I've mentioned the "Ropes Course" several times and no one seems to know it is one of the best "team building" program out there....I went through it many years ago.

 

[leto1776]

I was hoping more along the lines of pool training, funds raising,etc, but I'll take it.

 

[Celtic]

I do not believe some established pros will take direction from Mark Wilson -- or any coach for that matter -- if the coach is going to instruct them how to shoot pool.

Any coach who goes into the Mosconi Cup thinking they are there to teach their players how to shoot or give them pointers is a lost cause. Do they think that Johan goes into the event telling Mika his elbow is dropping too much, and that Neils needs to straighten his back leg more? No, the LAST thing Johan is there to do is teach his players how to play pool, anything he did to even attempt that would in fact have quite the opposite effect and likely make them shoot worse. The Mosconi Cup is NOT the time to go and try to tweak people strokes or games or tell them they shot the wrong shot.

Coaching is about motivating people, it is about putting the players frame of mind into the right place so that the peak of their own natural abilities are realized and they have the highest chance possible to be victorious. It is about working the proper strategies on who to play when knowing how your players will react to playing early or late in matches, or who might be best to break a losing streak or who might be a good front runner and keep a winning streak alive. It is about reading the moves of the other team and attempting to get the correct matchups for your own team, certain players play better against others and you need to do your best to know this and set up matches so that your guys are playing against people they feel confident and play well against.

A proper coach in the Mosconi Cup can be hugely useful "IF" they know what they are actually there to do. Few if any coaches on the American side of the Cup have had a clue of any of this IMO.

 

[PINKLADY]

when i think of Johan, one word: Terminator

what about Joe Rogan?

(yea yea - bring the ridicule on - just a thought)

 

[CJ Wiley]

I was hoping more along the lines of pool training, funds raising,etc, but I'll take it.

It would be pool training, but designed to get them in their best possible team spirit.

The Europeans are simply better team players......this isn't because the USA team "can't" do team play, they're just not used to this specific format.

And you're right, without funds this isn't possible, and no one in the USA would chip in to see this happen, after all it's a Engish event. Maybe if we did it in the USA on ESPN we could raise the money, I know a few guys who would chip in a ten or twenty to help out.

 

[leto1776]

It would be pool training, but designed to get them in their best possible team spirit.

The Europeans are simply better team players......this isn't because the USA team "can't" do team play, they're just not used to this specific format.

And you're right, without funds this isn't possible, and no one in the USA would chip in to see this happen, after all it's a Engish event. Maybe if we did it in the USA on ESPN we could raise the money, I know a few guys who would chip in a ten or twenty to help out.

I'm not talking about the MC,or team play in general. I started this thread to get talking about Americans playing in World Championships, or big international tournaments in general.

 

[PINKLADY]

I must have missed what you're trying to communicate on that last part.

it's Poker Night w/ the boys - but this is what he was referring to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypto View Post
In case anyone else here in the USA missed the news, the 2014 Asian Games, the largest sporting event in Asia, decided to drop all cue sports from their schedule for the 2014 Games in Incheon, South Korea.

The Olympic Council of Asia (OCA) decided that the eight non-Olympic sports in the 2014 competition would be baseball, ten-pin bowling, cricket, kabaddi, karate, sepak takraw, squash and wushu. This resulted in roller sport, chess, cue sports, softball, dancesport and dragon boat being dropped from the list.

These competitions have been an important part of billiards competition for some time now, and I am very disappointed in the OCA's decision.

If this has been previously posted, my apologies for reposting. I was researching a billiard-based vacation where I will spend quite a bit of money, but now, I will most certainly spend it somewhere other than in Incheon.

It seems, as Earl Strickland said in his Sky Sports Interview, Pool is dying. Earl seems to be very angry about it, and many of the rest of us are as well. But being angry won't stop this trend. Read AZ's 2013 year-end summary and see where our sport is heading. It may just shock you. Let's embrace what we do have and appreciate those individuals that promote our Sport.[/B]

 

[leto1776]

I like your idea Bob, but for two things:
1. Drop the race to 25 in favor of a round robin or double round robin. You'll never reach a real (re:non-hardcore fans) audience with ridiculous long races.
2. You would need legitimate organizations to sanction and put on these events. The pool industry doesn't have those right now.

 

[leto1776]

1. I just don't agree. Long sessions haven't hurt snooker. People watch 2 or 3 football games in a day. They watch the Superbowl and NBA playoffs for days. It would be something like four players playing off against one another. Two days and out.

2. All it needs is a promoter, then sponsors and a network who will kick in enough to attract the best players. If it's presented properly it will attract an audience. The amount of prize money will be important to attract the audience and the players. The qualifiers wouldn't require prize money and they don't require a production. All that's required is a table and supervision by the promoter. If there's enough money in the final it will attract players. The whole process could be an invitational rather than an open.

I don't know if this can be accomplished but I really think it's the only thing that's going to work. One winner, from one region, and a big purse will attract attention.

Regarding the bold, I've seen this comparison made on this board before, and it's laughable. Comparing long races of pool to NFL playoffs and the Super Bowl isn't apples to oranges, it's apples to motor oil. Have you even watched football? The Super Bowl itself goes way beyond the game. It's the total package of the game, the pageantry and half time show, and the always entertaining, not always seen again after, commercials. The playoffs? Two teams (yes, team sports) playing a single game,then they move on and play a different team. It's like a tournament, except the team aspect provides even more variables than a rack of 9-ball. Nothing about it compares to playing 25 racks of the same game over and over.


And again, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand, getting American players prepared participate in international competitions.

 

[JAM]

I don't have a chance to play in many Pro Tournaments, although I'd play in all of them if they were televised....there's not much upside to winning a tournament that's not.

The US Open 9 Ball and US Open 10 Ball and Ultimate 10 Ball Championships (in Frisco Texas) a couple of years ago......I got 9th in the US OPEN 9 Ball - Shane and Johnny beat me in the 10 Ball...I'm not sure about Buddy Hall's last tournament, but most will agree he is a living legend in the world of pool.

It is quite sad to see C.J., an American pro with a long-existing track record in the pool world, have to provide his portfolio on a pool forum.

Most people who have been in the pool world for any length of time are well aware of the C.J. Wiley legacy.

Not only that, but I have been contacted by several females in the past asking if I had photos of you because you were considered "easy on the eyes." :smiling-heart: This was, of course, pre-Mary when this occurred. :wink:

I can think of no one who is more passionate about pool on this forum than C.J. He dodges the verbal punches on this forum and doesn't let it sway him. Keep on keeping on, C.J., and thank you for taking the time to post in the Wild Wild West of pool on the Internet known as AzBilliards.:grin-square: